General Music Chat

That's 'cause they figure you can just get some corn-squeezin's from the still out in the woods.

"Moonshine, tastes so fine
Love that wine
Made from dandelion"

Blue laws repealed?

Then why can't I buy a beer before 1 PM on a Sunday? I can't even buy hard liquor to take home on a Sunday, neither!

hey now! I didn't say repealed! They're still "laws" on many books, but not actively followed / enforced - most people don't even know they existed they're so ancient a concept these days.

edit:
so I thought I'd drum up some laws in your neighborhood, since ignorance of the law is no excuse!

There is a state law prohibiting “corrupt practices of bribery by any person other than candidates."

No one may wash a mule on the sidewalk.

Spitting on a sea gull is not tolerated.

A man may face 60 days in jail for patting a woman’s derriere.

No person may keep a skunk as a pet.

I thought you were implying that the church is becoming more prominent in law making - and hearing that coming from someone who lives in Seattle, one of the most liberal places on the planet, confused me.

Well we do have televisions and the internet here....And not all of Seattle is liberal. We have a lot of non thinkers here too.....

As far as the church being prominent in lawmaking, I see so much power being brought against the little guy in the form of religious, big business , conservatives. I see so much dis-information and I'm so pissed at the Democrats who had a great opportunity to good and they just threw it away.
But yes, society has made gains in spite of religion. I don't buy your assertion that society is worse off because we don't follow religious teachings. If we strictly followed religious teachings we'd have something more like a fascist state. Look at the Taliban if you want an example. And I think the founding fathers knew this and made separation of church and state prominent in their new government.

The reason you have to lock your doors at night is that whole communities have crushing poverty brought about by people that still have the mistaken belief that we all play on an even playing field...

ACTUALLY IT IS GENERAL CHAT.

General Chat
All users can post to this forum on general music topics.

As I read it it's general MUSIC chat....so if you want religious chat find an appropriate place, or next we'll have the Satanists in here telling how praying to Satan saved them from all sort of calamities......

Actually it's general music topics. That covers everything.
All topics. All topics are covered musically.
Therefore discuss all topics.

EVEN SATIN

I thought you were implying that the church is becoming more prominent in law making - and hearing that coming from someone who lives in Seattle, one of the most liberal places on the planet, confused me.

Well we do have televisions and the internet here....And not all of Seattle is liberal. We have a lot of non thinkers here too.....

haha.

As far as the church being prominent in lawmaking, I see so much power being brought against the little guy in the form of religious, big business , conservatives. I see so much dis-information and I'm so pissed at the Democrats who had a great opportunity to good and they just threw it away.
But yes, society has made gains in spite of religion. I don't buy your assertion that society is worse off because we don't follow religious teachings.

Well, I may believe it, but where did I assert it? I think you're reading into my post, which has been doing nothing other than pointing out that I don't see society being run by the church - but more by the unchurch. That aside, I think you're confusing Republicans with "the church". I'm not a fan of Republicans either.

If we strictly followed religious teachings we'd have something more like a fascist state. Look at the Taliban if you want an example. And I think the founding fathers knew this and made separation of church and state prominent in their new government.

um. you're confusing Islam with Christianity. If were to be a fascist state because of Christianity, we would have started off as one... more recently though, I think you can say we are becoming fascist, if by fascism, you mean government controlled business. But that's further down the time-line, which is my point - moving away from what I thought you meant by theocracy.

The reason you have to lock your doors at night is that whole communities have crushing poverty brought about by people that still have the mistaken belief that we all play on an even playing field...

Poverty has always been with us. It always will be. Yet, there was time when it was common to not have to lock your doors. So I don't equate poverty with crime as much as you do, but rather a state of mind that justifies theft, or a state of mind that just views the law as "if you don't catch me, it's legal".

Anyways, I still think we're moving away from a theocracy. By that I mean, church run/controlled state by means of laws. Even at our founding, those laws were democratically put into place based on a general consens of the majority of individuals who, even if they weren't Christian, believed generally speaking that the ethos of the Bible was sutiable to maintain a civil society. That norm is gone - and so now laws are reflecting the non-religious ethos. Laws in a democrasy always reflect the majority's view of morality, both fiscal and moral. That's just the way it works.

Cheers.

Very well said Jams.
You think in a straight line with both eyes open.



I tend to think lyricly.

Sans, I probably read you wrong, again. Oh well, it's all good.

Jams, well said.

Gtzip, I don't know what's happening with that, but apparently the guys friends went and threatened his friends against testifying. I don't know what's happening on that front. Too bad, because I don't see why the police would need witnesses when they have evidence. Know?

Sorry, I'd be suing someone for some cash to pay my bills.

Chaeya

Well, I may believe it, but where did I assert it? I think you're reading into my post, which has been doing nothing other than pointing out that I don't see society being run by the church - but more by the unchurch. That aside, I think you're confusing Republicans with "the church". I'm not a fan of Republicans either.

Sorry, I jumped to conclusion, you didn't assert that

um. you're confusing Islam with Christianity. If were to be a fascist state because of Christianity, we would have started off as one... more recently though, I think you can say we are becoming fascist, if by fascism, you mean government controlled business. But that's further down the time-line, which is my point - moving away from what I thought you meant by theocracy.

No, I was just using Islam as a recent example. I could give you Puritans or the Salem witch trials as another example. I think though that I tend to equate the rise of big business with the rise in conservative religious thinking. I think that big business promotes it as it serves to " be an opiate of the masses" it's Big Buisness way of saying "shut up and consume" to the american public.

Poverty has always been with us. It always will be. Yet, there was time when it was common to not have to lock your doors. So I don't equate poverty with crime as much as you do, but rather a state of mind that justifies theft, or a state of mind that just views the law as "if you don't catch me, it's legal".

Anyways, I still think we're moving away from a theocracy. By that I mean, church run/controlled state by means of laws. Even at our founding, those laws were democratically put into place based on a general consens of the majority of individuals who, even if they weren't Christian, believed generally speaking that the ethos of the Bible was sutiable to maintain a civil society. That norm is gone - and so now laws are reflecting the non-religious ethos. Laws in a democracy always reflect the majority's view of morality, both fiscal and moral. That's just the way it works.

You have to look at what a dollar buys now in relation to what it bought back a while ago. Frankly, there have always been locks on doors. I used to live in a small town where you could get away with that just because everyone knew everyone, not because of religious belief. And I believe that you can have high ethical behavior without a high amount of religious belief. But I believe the rise in crime is totally due to economic factors and not the fall in religious thinking.

I really hope you're right, that we're moving away from theocracy and I think that you and I really are actually fairly close in our beliefs but we get hung up on semantics. Part of my fear is the rise in these churches that buy up old box stores and have thousands of members that are ultra misogynist and anti-gay and seem to have some power in swaying local elections.
But the founding fathers had their doubts about religion too. Ben Franklin was very outspoken about church and state and so were others although as you say most were christian.

You make some good points though....and this is taking way too much time.....

Our rise in crime has other factors to consider.

Corporal punishment has been abolished in our schools, for example. Children don't have the responses for bad behavior that they used ot.

We/ve had about 4 decades of psychologists' & psychiatrists' tampering with our courts, our prisons, our schools, etc. Their experiments have also reduced personal responsibility to a large degree.

We have redefined & redefined the word "abuse" to the point that "discipline" has been reduced to mere brow-beating. There aren't the consequences that there used to be for just about any criminal act.

Our media & our gov't have glorified the corrupt among us, as well.

It ain't a lack of religion, as much as it's a lack of self control, thet we're experiencing as an entire nation. Imho, even our country itself has shown a lack of self control, when it's broken a 200 year tradition of not using pre-emptive strikes against other countries.

I have been a Christian for more than 30 years now. My understanding of the Christian religion is that it enhances "self-control" through God's influence on the converted mind.

Even though the Founders never called this nation a Christian nation, by virtue of law, they understood the majority influence on the fabric of this society to be Christian by virtue of the number of people who espoused the Christian religion in some manner. That fabric has long since been replaced by a secular culture. That culture has effected every aspect of American society, including music, which seems to get more violent and nasty with each passing year. Noise has become "music." Violence has become "art." Disparaging Christianity has become expression of 1st amendment freedom, but the opposite is called "bigotry," "hate," and breaking the establishment of separation of church and state.

The pendulum is about to swing hard, and that isn't necessarily good for everyone's freedom. Still, it's a sick nation. Decades of renouncing God's sovereignty has certainly not been the answer.

BTW the hard line Puritans and witch trials, etc., took place before the signing of the Declaration and the Constitution. Its apples and oranges, really.

You make some good points though....and this is taking way too much time.....

and you too. Thanks for the civil discourse - always better than the brow-beating ones

cheers.

Our media & our gov't have glorified the corrupt among us, as well.

man, isn't that the truth! Seems like there is a general appetite to feed on those things that make you double take and shake your head - the absurd behavior of people, getting away with lies, etc. There's like some sort of addiction to shocking behavior, and the media is able to generate viewership using that tactic. of course kids growing up see it, and they're like - that's the norm - we're supposed to act like Beavis and Butthead (I'm dating myself - o.k., Southpark then!) -