General Music Chat

It seems to me like a lot of these drummers think that they're better than gold, so they think they desrve to be payed for everything. At least, that's what I've seen from these internet drummers. I'm pretty dumbfounded by it cause I've never seen people with all these expectations made in order to play.

And what it's all about for me is to play. Money will come into play later, but I don't have any clue just how little or how much....that's not what being in a new band is about to me anyways. If I wanted to make money, I could try to find an established band and play "their songs". I would much rather start something from the ground up and see where it goes.

The band experience should be fun or there's no point in playing.

It seems to me like a lot of these drummers think that they're better than gold, so they think they desrve to be payed for everything. At least, that's what I've seen from these internet drummers. I'm pretty dumbfounded by it cause I've never seen people with all these expectations made in order to play.

And what it's all about for me is to play. Money will come into play later, but I don't have any clue just how little or how much....that's not what being in a new band is about to me anyways. If I wanted to make money, I could try to find an established band and play "their songs". I would much rather start something from the ground up and see where it goes.

The band experience should be fun or there's no point in playing.

I find we have more in common near daily Krul.

One thing I can say, when I met the first producer I worked with, I loved his music. I wanted to sing on it so bad. He would call me at all hours and go "we're in the studio, get your ass over here." And I'd jump out of bed and drive to the studio even though I had to be at work the next day. I didn't get paid and I never asked about money. I was so proud to be a part of that. A few years later, we went to London. He got me work on all his material and I started getting paid.

The point is, I loved what I was doing. Sometimes when certain music comes along, you just realize you want to be a part of that.

Chaeya

Forgive my ignorance, Kruliosis, but are you saying you cannot find any drummers who will just come to jam or rehearse without being paid? That sounds rather outrageous. I must have missed a page somewhere in this thread.

Living in an area where there are few, if any, musicians into what I'm into, and hearing tales from other musicians in this area of not being able to get a bassist or guitarist to come jam unless they get paid, I am wondering what has happened to the music industry in general. And I live out in the sticks, literally. I would think people would jump at chances to play with other musicians and see what clicks.

I thought it was incumbent upon any musician to show up and do their thing first to see if they are worthy to get a position in a band and then get paid when the band plays out, records, whatever. Getting paid just to show up seems too weird to contemplate.

If a drummer, or any musician for that matter, feels "called" to play their instrument, doesn't that calling remain, money or no money; and one just goes where they can to meet people, make contacts, do their thing and see what develops?

Money first? I can't wrap my head around that.

I have a day job (well, night job, actually) and playing the drums is just my therapy. I play with or without pay. It's the fun that matters.

Would seem to be a matter of what you do for a living.

If your a musician as a profession then I totally understand.

I'm an RN, and hell no I wont work for free, not even one moment.

Musically though, I play for a mission.

That mission is important. When I get paid, it goes toward the mission.

All a matter of mind set.

Someone like Drumsinhisheart would fit well into our band most likely.

Have had professional drummers ( as in expect to profit monetarily) walk away from us.
And I totally understand.

Our "label" does not pay all that well.

But the retirement policy is the BEST FOREVER !!

Well, this is interesting. Professional (full-time) versus non-full-time.

Let's take ... Terry Bozzio, or Weckle, or Colaiuta, or Erskine, whoever. They play for a living. Does that mean if any of these drummers is not currently in a band or on a clinic tour and need employment in a band, whether established or just starting up, they have to be paid to audition or come to jam to see if they fit? Does that go for everybody else who shows up? What if its an idea for a band, no band yet. Who pays the musicians to show up and get together to see if a band can be started?

What is wrong with this picture?

Is this an ego thing?

I don't know about extinct. Just in super high demand. We had drummers lined up when were playing out 4 days a week. But once we slowed down and lost the profile, the ranks got thin.
It's tough to find a good drummer that will commit to a band. These days they're like hot chicks. They have their pick.

FYI: When we moved onto0 drummer #4 last year, we brought in a pro.
And honestly, we played the best shows we ever played. The guy showed up knew all the songs, played them perfectly and even was able to pull off two encores perfectly (without rehearsal). Worth his weight in gold.

Well, this is interesting. Professional (full-time) versus non-full-time.

Let's take ... Terry Bozzio, or Weckle, or Colaiuta, or Erskine, whoever. They play for a living. Does that mean if any of these drummers is not currently in a band or on a clinic tour and need employment in a band, whether established or just starting up, they have to be paid to audition or come to jam to see if they fit? Does that go for everybody else who shows up? What if its an idea for a band, no band yet. Who pays the musicians to show up and get together to see if a band can be started?

What is wrong with this picture?

Is this an ego thing?

Not at all.
It's down to personal preference.
That mind set I speak of.
I "audition" for providing patient care or supervision any time I change jobs.
And I get paid in the process. It's my "profession".
Of course my "audition" as a n RN can take weeks, depending on corporate policy.

If you intend to start a band with what are termed "hired guns" in the music business then YOU are expected to pay, and you better have deep pockets.

I see the "pay drummer to play your songs" as a big changing of the times. Hell no I don't like it. As much as I think the internet is a great tool, I also see that it's made people too comfortable. Most drummers in their early to late 20's started doing this play for hire, and then nameless older guys started hopping on the bandwagon too.

When I was a full-on drummer, I would jump at the chance to fill in for the stage experience. I would only officially join a band that I believed in, and the pizza money we made was all shared equally.

So what is it with drummers willing to sacrifice playing with a good and promising band over doing what they do for a pay guarantee? Lack of team dedication with hopes of being able to pay their bills for a lifetime. Sleep all day, work at night? Money is their dedication.

These cats aren't thinking logically, or realistically. Standing in a huge line of music college unknowns will not get you a job with Ozzy(I went to music college). A lot of people have lost their way morally in music. Not all of course, but a lot. Seems like some have developed the old greedy music business attitude.

Whoever decides not to wear the same hat everyone else does will be successful...period. And staying with a good band that people like is more important than going from check to no check eventually. There's little kids out there that can blow the drummers for hire away. If these guys with no names continue to compete, they'll be stuck watching everyone else in bands who are more skilled than them basking in the marks they're making while the hired hands ask:what the hell went wrong? It's cause they lacked vision and didn't want to be a part of something that could possibly fail . I think it's rather a weak mindset. Even though most new music today suffers, the doors are open more than ever for people who want to step out and set themselves apart.

So fear and security are another mindset a lot of these drummers...etc. have. The current economic state has leaked into the personal relationships of a lot of musicians, with hopes that the internet will get them more "jobs". Yep, $$$. Did I say $$$?

P.S. This is no knock against hired hands. Some hired guns are great and have built a name for themselves, be it underground or in popular music. But if nothing is happening in three years with everyone else that climbs aboard getting stuck, then it's time to try another route. I don't know too many people who pay for musicians.

It takes a strong personality to attract and keep a band of musicians together under the "promise" of fame and $$$$$. If you're looking for a situation like Aerosmith or the Allman Brothers Band, where as these guys lived together, partied together, and screwed each other's girlfriends, then you had better have some good, well arranged music, along with leadership qualities like Tyler (who happened to be a drummer), and Greg had.
Rather than blame the drummers, why not take a good look at the type of music you're playing, or your personality flaws (we all got them), and figure out why it is that you're not attracting dedicated musicians. John Bonham (Led Zeppelin) entertained offers from Joe Cocker and Chris Farlowe (The Thunderbirds) before deciding he liked what Jimmy Page and Robert Plant had going on.

when I was a full-time gigging guy working 4-6 nights a week, I'd have ppl calling me up to come to their party "& bring your guitar."

Sorry, but when that's all you're doing, you don't do it as often "for fun."

How would they feel if I threw a party & said "& bring your vacuum cleaner/hammer/lawn mower/whatever."

There were times all I really wanted to do was to socialize, to schmooze, to do something...anything...else. Don't get me wrong. I loved my work, but that's what it was at that point - work. When I got to that point, I didn't really want to do it that much for fun.

You do anything too much & you'll get burnt out, I suppose.

I can understand ppl who do this for a living to expect to be paid when they lug all their stuff out somewhere. At the same time, I have never & will not pay anyone to show up for an audition, or practice.

If I had a gigging band, I'd laugh at anyone for suggesting such a thing.

It's all a function of where you live and how good you are. Here in Detroit you can't throw a rock without hitting a musician. But to find one that works in your project takes some time and effort. Getting paid to audition/practice is unknown, however if you need musicians for recording you will pay $50-300 per session (although some will do it for free just to get experience or build their portfolio).

Pizza money ?

I'm an RN, and hell no I wont work for free, not even one moment.

Musically though, I play for a mission.

Hey, nice to see a fellow RN here. You know how stressful our job is dealing with unsatisfied patients. Beating the drums on practices and gigs serves as my therapy. Getting some paid gigs is a bonus.