General Music Chat

Heh heh, yes indeed, quitting while you are ahead is always a good strategy. My only problem with betting 19 numbers is that 18 of those numbers are absolutely positively guaranteed to lose. If you win you don't win 35 you win 16 because you lost 18. Basically you are betting 19 for a chance to win 16...

But I know you aren't interested in math so I won't dwell anymore on it. As long as you are having fun and not losing money you can't afford go for it.

Bet = 19
Win = 35+1
Loose = 18

End Result = 36-18 = 18 profit


Now you can afford to loose one and only be down one.
Follow your wins with raised bets.
Follow losses with lowering bets.
The table dictates your play sometimes.

You're right, I forgot to factor in the dollar you didn't lose on the winning number.

Follow your wins with raised bets.
Follow losses with lowering bets.
The table dictates your play sometimes.

I'm curious, what is the logic/strategy behind this?

Klugmo, I love roulette.

I have no problems with gambling, it isn't that it's unfair, it's a game and you learn how to play and how to control yourself. Like anything in life, food, drugs, shopping, if you can't control yourself then that's just too bad. You gamble what you can afford to lose, you learn to quit when your money's low. I get sick of people's victim mentality. Oh gambling is wrong because it entices people's greed and they can't control themselves. The reason people don't control themselves is because we have to turn everything into a medical sickness.

I like to go to Harrahs here in CA. They play roulette with bingo balls. Bingo balls are easier to me than the wheel. Me and hubs would go sit at the table for like 2 and 3 hours. We'd play rounds and if we don't like the energy of certain dealers, we'd sit out. Meanwhile our cards are racking up time. We'd take like $200 and sit in. If hubs is winning, I'd stop. If I'm winning and he isn't, he'd stop. If we both get to $50 left, we stop and come back another day. I'd sit there and watch these morons dumping out thousands of dollars covering the entire board. I asked one guy why he did that and he said, he won more. Yeah, you win, but the next two rounds you lose, you lose most everything, then back to the ATM he goes. I watched one cat go through two thousand dollars while I was still working on my one hundred and was winning. I don't bet whole numbers, I bet lines and colors. If someone is winning, I follow their bets. Sneaky, yes, but I win. I'm not good at picking numbers, so I find people who are. So I can work the board for about a good 3 hours and when I get up to $100 I stop, we put it away. We usually come away with something. You won't make a big kill like in slots, but I play because it's fun. If I want a quick kill, I play slots.

I look at it like this, I would take the kids to the arcade and dump out like $50 in video games and you don't get sh*t back from that. At least I have a chance to get my cash back.

The main key, I'm racking up time on my card. Because of that, I get all these points for room comps and food. They have classy rooms, it's a nice vacation for dirt cheap compared to if I take the kids away on my own. They have a frig and microwave in the room so I pack food and we go down to the buffet and have dinner. The kids can hang at the pool all day and I bring the video games and dvd player and they invite their friends to stay while me and the hubs have fun at night.

It's all good if you put it in perspective and know how to work it.

Chaeya

Craig can you try to be a bigger dick?

I didn't do much aside from state some FACTS.

If your perception, is that those FACTS are "going for the jugular" then you are upset because I have a stronger case, which devastates the "illusion" Klugmo is under, that there is a SYSTEM which can "regularly" beat... CHANCE! And undermine the LEGAL advantage that gaming commissions ALLOW casinos, so that they can be PROFITABLE, and pay plenty of TAXES, from the hard earned money of the GULLIBLE.

If I devastate someone's position, by stating stronger facts, it appears to you, I am destroying someone's DREAM, which is DEPENDENT on their maintaining the ILLUSION they have adopted, in order for them to continue believing in, and pursuing that "dream".

What you call being an "asshole" because it challenges someone's illusions, is instead, in reality potentially LIBERATING them from being ENSLAVED by those delusions. Or at the least, it can help someone else reading, not be suckered into believing the lie themselves.

You perceive I am HARRASSING someone. Why? Merely because I am introducing FACTS which challenge their "magical" (delusional) belief that there is a SYSTEM, that can undermine the house odds on Roulette. But there ISN'T a system which can do that.

When a "dream" is NOT possible to achieve, then it is instead, a DELUSION. Crushing a DELUSION, is not being an "asshole" it is performing a PUBLIC SERVICE.

Let him alone, you moron.

You even sound like a dick.

Live and let live.

Name calling?

Did I call Klugmo names?

Did I call YOU names?

But "I" am being an asshole?


Look Capt, your view seems to be... "He enjoys it, who cares if he is deluding himself? He's having fun. Leave him alone!"

But I didn't tell him NOT to gamble on Roulette. I expressed concern, because I am pretty familiar with casino betting odds, and his belief that he wins more than he loses (We're talking Roulette) is fallacious, and as mentioned before... it "CAN" be a sign of a gambling addiction... which I am also very familiar with, having had a step-father who was a gambling addict.

Expressing GENUINE CONCERN for someone, is NOT being an asshole.

It is being a FRIEND!

I don't know whether or not Klugmo has a gambling addiction. I don't have enough facts to ascertain that knowledge. But his belief that he wins at Roulette more than he loses, is a BIG RED FLAG!

My step father knew more about gambling than anyone I have ever met personally. But he was also an addict, pursuing a delusion. And at least in HIS case, he negatively impacted, not just himself, but many others, with the supposed "harmless delusion" that he won more than he lost.

I don't have a personal problem with gambling in general. It's not the casino's fault that people have addictions, any more than it would be a pharmaceutical company's fault, that "some" people become addicted to their medications.

It comes down to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

If someone is methodical, intelligent and DISCIPLINED about how they gamble, and how much they spend, and on which games they spend it on, then it is possible to spend an entire day in a casino, and lose relatively little... maybe a few hundred bucks. A day of ENTERTAINMENT may be worth a few hundred bucks. I have no problem with people paying for entertainment.

I challenged his FALSE belief, that on Roulette, he wins more than he loses. Not merely because he is wrong, and therefore open game, but because... if... "IF" there is a deeper problem... gambling addiction... then it is well worth my time, to take a stab at injecting some REALITY into the situation. And whether it persuades him or not, it may at least, give others food for thought, before they buy into the falsehood themselves, that Roulette is a winning game.

The closest to a level playing field you can get on Roulette, is betting "red" or "black", which would give someone a 50/50 shot, "IF" there were only red and black spaces. But the green spaces "0" and "00" are there to provide the house with an edge, so that YOU CANNOT achieve a 50/50 opportunity.

The belief that some "secret system" can undermine the house odds, on games of pure chance, like Roulette, is referred to, as a "Gambler's Fallacy". It is called FALLACY for a reason!

Casinos in the U.S. take in TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars EVERY YEAR!

The belief, that some guy in Hoboken N.J. with limited resources, has a "system" that beats the casino's odds, and he writes a book about it, one that the casinos are undoubtedly shaking in their boots about... is quite simply.... FICTIONAL! There is NO LEGAL SYSTEM that has ever been conceived, that a business bringing in BILLIONS of dollars every year, has not considered already! And even if there were, the gaming commission, would simply introduce new betting rules, or a new wheel, to STOP it from occurring, and give the house back, the LEGAL ADVANTAGE they are allowed BY LAW!

A very famous guy, may have put it best...

"You cannot beat a roulette table unless you steal money from it."
- Albert Einstein

Cheaya, you have a good attitude about the casinos.
You use them to YOUR advantage. BRAVO. You see the
casino in a way that others here are obviously
incapable of. Your eyes are open and looking at the truth
on your terms.

Craigs views are tainted with past experience of negative
personal memories. That is not his fault. His logical
approach to life removes him from half the possibilities. This
is surprising to me given his obvious artistic abilities. You see
songwriters create something from nothing and believe
what is not apparent. He basis his side of the discussion on
just the facts as he sees them with no room for what he may
not know.

The ILLUSION that he says I am under in his view is a
blanket of fallacy. I don't know about all of that but
in my view the cash in hand is no illusion.

He claims that I said I have a system that beats chance
what ever that means. He devastates me with his lack
of actual knowledge about the game. What really gets me
is the way he puts Capt. down for name calling and almost
in the same breath he backhandedly calls me:

Illusionary
Gullible
Dreamer
Enslaved
Liar
Magical
Fallacious
Addict
Wrong

WOW! I'm a pretty messed up guy huh.

I don't feel harassed or bad in any way about this.
I do feel that Craig has been hurt badly in his past
by someone who maybe used gambling as a tool
to hurt him and others around him. I think he really
is the one that has been devastated and the scars
are evident in his writing.

I play Roulette.
I win more than I loose.
It has taken me a long time to learn how.
I don't apologise for that.
I like Craig.

Lastly Cheaya, I apologise for using your post to
respond to Craig as he did with his response to Capt.
towards me.

Klugmo,

Don't assume that every comment I wrote about Roulette, is directed toward YOU personally. I haven't called you a liar. I do however, believe that you have selective memory. That doesn't make someone a LIAR in my view. A liar PURPOSELY deceives. Someone who BELIEVES what they are saying... even if they are mistaken, is not a liar.

And yes, I pride myself on being a logical person. However, I am also proud of the fact, that I am a spiritual, and artistic person as well. I believe in BALANCE in life, including between LOGIC and FAITH.

But Roulette is not a religious or spiritual enterprise. It is merely a game of chance, whose odds are mathematically calculable. The inclusion of principles of FAITH, really have no business in Roulette. You yourself, suggested that you have a SYSTEM, that WORKS. Faith is not required then. Merely following the SYSTEM is required.

ALL SUCH SYSTEMS based on games of pure chance, are FALLIBLE. There are DOZENS of "systems" to be found in books and online, and they are ALL faulty, whenever they suggest something like... "If you lose 3 times in a row, then double down the next bets, because winning numbers have to then come up."

That is mathematically FALLACIOUS!

You can try this principle out with mere coins, which is a TRUE 50/50 bet, where you guess heads or tails. The law of averages, will come into play, where... let's say you toss the coin 100 times and make 100 guesses, you will find that the heads/tails ratio, will be very nearly even. However, "HOW" we GET TO EVEN, will NOT be consistent.

In 10 flips, it could go...

H-T-H-T-H-H-T-H-T-T

Or it could go...

H-H-H-T-T-T-T-T-H-H

Or any number of OTHER variations.

Past results, are NO PREDICTOR of future results.

i.e. - Just because tails came up 4 times in a row, does not mean that heads will then come up next, or even the same 4 times in a row.

Averages figure in, even more prominently, THE MORE YOU DO SOMETHING. If I flip a coin, only twice, I could get 50/50 or I could get 2 Heads or I could get 2 Tails. It is when I flip the coin dozens of times, that averages become more obvious, and quite frankly... unavoidable.

Without CHEATING, or knowing the FUTURE... NO SYSTEM will achieve consistent results, in games of PURE CHANCE.

I have no problem with casinos they are providing entertainment. but ALL gambling in my opinion basically plays on peoples Greed! My mom has a problem with it and despite my constantly trying to talk some sense into her about it. She can't pay her bills and take care of herself because of it!

I had posted a thread that our band played at a Hotel/Casino the other night and believe it or not thats the FIRST time I have ever set foot in one. I don't gamble and I didn't the other night. I don't even know how LMAO! I didn't realize that the casino we were in was a boat until my wife showed me. After the gig I wanted to drink a little OKAY A LOT so we went to the casino and I watched my wife and her friend gamble a little (just enough to get free drinks) Yee! Haw!
My problem has always been that I am not greedy so there is no emotion for them to play off of. So I will be fine just having a few cocktails and watching everyone else!

Also, regarding my personal experiences, through my Step-Father with his gambling addiction... I didn't suffer greatly because of it. He was not the kind of addict that would steal money and then hitchhike to the nearest casino. We played the entire East Coast when we toured with my mother's band, and we played Atlantic City only once a year, if that.

His thing was CASINOS, which we were around infrequently.

Without that, he might bet on pool (he was a good pool player) but he usually didn't bet on much else. There was one time where we sued a nightclub for breach of contract, and won. But after lawyers fees. it resulted in only a thousand dollars maybe, received by us. He took the thousand, and bought 1000 lottery tickets, and we spent an entire night, scratching them off, and turning in the free-tickets and money "won" for new tickets, until of course, it was all gone.

This wasn't a TRAUMATIC experience in the least.

Just a LEARNING experience, that made me LATER IN LIFE, study about the odds on casino games, and made me want to learn more about gambling addiction.

I don't gamble

I will be fine just having a few cocktails and watching everyone else!

I'm kind of like that, although, I have gambled quite a few times in Atlantic City. But I don't bring more than I am prepared to lose. Oddly enough, one time, a friend wanted me to go with him to Atlantic City, and I told him I would go, but I would spend no more than $100 and I was just going to waste it, in the slots, little by little.

He insisted I play CRAPS though, since I had never played it in a casino before. I told him that I would spend $20 on it, but no more. Well, after he explained the betting variations, I started betting and rolling, and I turned the $20 into $2,000.

Of course, we then went in the next day, and the casino got it all back!

Once again... you can win in the short term, but unless you are giving up gambling for good, after having one fortunate evening, then you are going to go back to that casino, on other days, or in later months, and the law of averages is going to ensure that the HOUSE ADVANTAGE makes THEM the winner in the long run.

CraigWrote: What you call being an "asshole" because it challenges someone's illusions, is instead, in reality potentially LIBERATING them from being ENSLAVED by those delusions. Or at the least, it can help someone else reading, not be suckered into believing the lie themselves.

In this one sentence you elude to me being delusional, enslaved,
and a liar. Just because you don't name me doesn't mean you are not
talking about me. I was the subject of this response.

You say I claimed I have a system.
That is not true.
I have claimed that money management is the way
to retain winnings and have given a couple tips on that.

Your comprehension needs work.

CraigWrote: What you call being an "asshole" because it challenges someone's illusions, is instead, in reality potentially LIBERATING them from being ENSLAVED by those delusions. Or at the least, it can help someone else reading, not be suckered into believing the lie themselves.


In this one sentence you elude to me being delusional, enslaved,
and a liar. Just because you don't name me doesn't mean you are not
talking about me.

TWO POINTS:

1) That statement was predicated upon the word "IF" Klugmo. My point to Scott, was that "IF" someone had a gambling problem, then the information he believes was offensive, may instead actually be HELPFUL. He sees me as robbing you of your FUN, whereas I am pointing out that "IF" you have a gambling problem, then what seems like "fun" could actually be a serious debilitation in life. But I have pointed out NUMEROUS times, that I CANNOT KNOW, whether or not you have some form of gambling addiction. My responses toward that end, come SOLELY from your comment... "I win more than I lose in Roulette" which as mentioned before, is a LEGITIMATE SYMPTOM of gambling addiction. If that is even a REMOTE possibility, then it drives my heart toward addressing it, on the chance that it could be helpful, either to you, or to anyone else paying attention. That ONE symptom however, does not mean that YOU are a gambling addict. I believe I stressed that point again and again.


2) The word "lie" in that sentence, was not meant in the context of someone actually LYING to someone else. It was a synonym for FALSEHOOD, or UNTRUTH. As in... "Don't believe the FALSEHOOD that any system or method, can be employed, to ensure you can win regularly on a game of pure chance, like Roulette!" My apologies that you took it that way. In hindsight, the term "FALSEHOOD" would have likely been a better choice of words.

You say I claimed I have a system.
That is not true.
I have claimed that money management is the way
to retain winnings and have given a couple tips on that.

Now we're mincing words. Do you have a SYSTEM of money management then, or is it all RANDOM, and you just CALL it "management"

What TIPS are you giving? Random ones, or set RULES?

Having a list of RULES, that guide your betting practices, is the SAME THING as having a SYSTEM for betting. That's all a SYSTEM is, is a set of RULES that are to be adhered to, to guide someone's betting on a particular game.

Your comprehension needs work.

That's all a SYSTEM is, is a set of RULES that are to be adhered to, to guide someone's betting on a particular game.

Here's the problem...btw... on maintaining a "system" of betting for a game like Roulette... It doesn't matter WHAT you do, you CANNOT undermine the HOUSE ADVANTAGE on that game. You can bet RED/BLACK and the house maintains a 5.26% edge. You can bet ODD/EVEN and the house maintains a 5.26% edge against you. You can place a single chip on the line, which covers TWO numbers, and the house maintains a 5.26% edge against you. You can place a single chip, and have it cover 4 numbers, and the house maintains a 5.26% edge against you!

Any professional gambler, who is NOT selling a book, or addicted to gambling, will tell you, that IT MATTERS NOT, where or when, you put that chip down... the house ALWAYS maintains at minimum, a 5.26% ADVANTAGE against you! When the Croupier rolls that little ball, it is ONLY CHANCE, that determines which of 38 spaces, it will land on!

The problem with ANY system, for a game of chance, is that it is STILL DEPENDENT, upon some knowledge of the outcome, for it to be successful. And that is, of course, IMPOSSIBLE, without cheating, and so, all such systems, become meaningless.

sh*t, here we go again. This is why I can never get a foot hold in this forum despite many tries. Here we are a couple of people having an interesting conversation when one of the resident trolls has to come in and destroy it.

[b]The advise I gave was about how to retain winnings
and minimize losses.
I did describe one bet.

I think where you are getting me wrong is your
fixation on the randomness and the math of the game.
The game can not be beat.
The accumulation of monies on both sides of the table
does change because of the randomness.
You will win some spins and you will loose some spins.
Therefore if you leave the table during a period of winning
every time. Would you consider that a system?

It is a form of control that the casino can not stop.
It can control if you are a winner or looser.


It can make it profitable.
The very randomness of winning and loosing is
guaranteed and can not be stopped by the casino because it is built
right into the game.

If these statements are true then you can see a way the
game can be used against itself for you to profit.

So, it is possible to win more money than loose.