General Music Chat

Me and the old man are butting heads again over the subject of vocals. I've been laying down vocals and he wants to drench everything in reverb. Reverb is fine, but I don't like a lot of it because it loses certain nuances in my voice. So he gets flustered when I tell him to take it off and to find another effect or to soften it up.

So now he got this brilliant idea to record me using two mikes and he takes one vocal track and put it's slight off from the main and it's a "oh f**k I'm lost in an empty room." He thinks it's cool. He asks me what's wrong with it. I can't explain it correctly and it comes out, "it doesn't sound professional." And then the fight started. I've done everything. I put on CDs and tell him, listen to her voice then listen to mine. He goes "she's got reverb!" Yeah, but she's not flippin' drowning in it!

He spent all night in the studio mixing, and I can't stand the mix of my last two songs, so I have to call him later today and use my "gentle wife voice" of telling him, "gee honey, you did a great job, but maybe we can use less reverb, let's get through this together." GRRR but my testosterone kicks in and it comes out "I hate this, take this sh*t off my voice!"

My hubs can mix the hell out of music, but I so want to call in another producer friend of ours and if I do that, well, then the fight started again.

So I'm venting to you guys so that I can calm down and get into my "gee honey" voice.

Chaeya

Common mistake. I went through it during the recording of our cd. Our producer wanted to put reverb on my voice, and I stopped him right away. First off, you need to double the vocals. Sing the song twice, pan one right and the other left. Then what you want to do is use a little (and I do mean a LITTLE) "Delay" on the vocals. You just want the delay to be tucked in the background to be ambient. It's just to smooth things out. Reverb makes things sound Karaoke, and you don't want that.

Go to my profile and listen to Jah Soldier. If you listen carefully, you'll hear the delay. I did it in Sky Down as well, but you don't hear it as much mainly because of the backup singing. And I do think we used less on that song, but it's there just to smooth things out.

Just an FYI. All of the songs on our cd have doubled vocals. The reason we did that is because it creates a natural reverb effect. The small differences in your timing and nuances of your delivery when you do something twice creates that. Give it a try and I think you might find what you're looking for.

In fact, when doing Sky Down we did a first take, ran it through my headphones during the second take, and the second take was better. Then I just said "let's double that one", and the performance came out better. Most likely because I now had a guide to sing to going on in my right ear.

Shredd, thanks so much for the tip! I will pass that info to the hubs. I want to have a listen to your tunes, but I'm at work, so I can't listen until I get home. It's better if we're together anyway.

Chaeya

Chaeya, it is indeed a common mistake - but only among the inexperienced . . .
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A tiny, TINY reverb - and echo - (2 VERY different things) - can work in concert to increase the needed presence of the vocals.
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Neophytes tend to overdo both, thinking that it sounds "cool.'
WRONG. It just ruins it.
. . . jerk . . .
It seems pretty safe to say that he does NOT know what he's doing . . .
. . . and - sorry - it seems like he's being an a**hole about it.
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I've heard many a song ruined by beginners adding waaaay too much reverb . . .
You have the experience to recognize it, and he's still learning . . .
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He need s to get over the "Wow - that sounds cool" factor, - and grow up!

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What's more important to him? Getting the best possible sound - or - "being right?"
Hell - it's YOUR voice, anyway . . .
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You need a REAL sound-man, my friend . . .

Record dry. Add effects later, when mixing. Tell him to make one your way, & one his way. Use the one YOU prefer. Let him play his for his friends.

Ha ha, Rhythm, trust me, I'm a bigger ass than him because he's much more diplomatic than me. I've been a professional session vocalist, so I know what I should sound like, I just wasn't sure on how to achieve it. It's hard to go from studios with mixing boards the size of spaceship controls to a small studio like we have.

My husband is fairly new to recording and since we don't have the money to attend school, everything he's learned, he's been picking it up. So far he's done okay, but I'm another story. This is the one hurdle I have to get him over.

The problem is most of his paying clients are these cats without pro experience and they want their vocals drenched in reverb, mainly because they don't sing that well. So that's what he's become used to. I try to convey that it is very amateurish.

Phil, we always record dry, this is after I've laid down my vocal.

I'm not spending the money on the studio when I have one, he's just going to learn what to do if I have to grind it in his brain. I plan on having it mastered so we can correct whatever flaws there are.

Chaeya

Phil is on the right track, except, you should solicit OUTSIDE (neutral) opinions, and AGREE to go with the one most favored by THEM. Mix it his way, and then mix it again your way, and post clips of BOTH tracks, and ask for feedback from a vocal forum board, which do they like better? Or you guys could simply play both tracks for a few friends who are artists, and see what they prefer, without telling them whose track is whose. Or consider creating a POLL on a forum, and the version with the most votes after 24 hours wins.

Craig, I can save the time. I know how I should sound, I want answers on HOW to achieve what I want and how to tell the old man. Shredd seems to have given me what I want and it makes sense to me. I do not like excessive reverb.

I will not have them with a fox
I will not have them in a box
Not in a car
Not in a bar
Not on a boat
Not with a goat
I do not like excess reverb
I do not like it, Craig.

Chaeya

LOL @ Chaeya!

Well then, hubby will just have to understand.

I put more reverb than I should on my vocals too, because it is a cheap way to get a little bigger sound, and I suspect, he is doing it for the same reason. But I am only using my recordings for demos, and don't expect to sell them, or have them played on radio. And maybe that is what you can suggest to your husband... that you can get away with the heavy reverb with the average music LISTENER, but to people in the business, it just sounds like someone who doesn't know what they are doing. Ask him... Is that how he wants to be perceived by industry people?

He can listen to just about any genre radio station today, and see for himself, there is not drenching reverb to be found in most songs played on-air.

Tell him to listen to the professional mixes of artists within your genre, and compare them to what HE is doing.

Don't worry. He'll get it!

Talked to the hubs and filled him in on the thoughts here and he was very receptive. Wow! Okay, I used my "Gee, Honey, boosie boosie, woo woo" voice and we're going back in tonight and work on the vocals.

Shredd, we're going to have a listen tonight and try your technique. I'm also having a musician friend come over tonight to be another ear for us too.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Chaeya

unless he's too proud to have folks critique his work, put some sample mixes up here, as a sort of jury of peers, if you will...

maybe receiving input from some seasoned folks will help him sort things out..?

Geeze, Chaeya, I have to agree with you. The big thing with you voice is to let it rip. As soon as you start to bury it you kill it. [no pun intended].
You have just make certain it is recorded and performed as close to perfect as you can, Then bring it up in the mix and let it rip. All those little nuances are what separate you from the rest. You have to explain that to Cisco,,,,,or,
No Flubbers for you ,,,, One week.

Glen, darlink! I've missed you!

We're going in the studio this evening, so let me see what I come out with and I'll post the differences just so people can hear what it sounded like before and the after.

Recording is a such a trial and error thing and you have to know the tricks better when you aren't working in a studio with over $100K worth of gadgets. But it can be done.

Chaeya

CHAEYA,,,, The trick, the biggest trick,, ha ha, Is to just put in an incredible performance. YOU CAN DO IT.
Just let it rip, One of the really cool things about your voice is that it cuts right through, why fight it , why cover it , CHERISH IT, That is who you are!!!