General Music Chat

"Is the mark of "true" creative success, that you take a vow of poverty, and always struggle to feed yourself, so that you can produce music which is free from the necessity of marketing? "

Not at all! However, today's market is completely disinterested in how or even IF any particular act develops & gets better. Their 1st CD may be heavily marketed, but after that, they're totally on their own.

There's simply to much competition, today, & the industry only seems to be interested in what's totally new. If you had a #1 CD yesterday, today, you're just yesterday's news. No air play. No promotion, other than the occasional tour pitch. No following to speak of in the general public because it's just the next big thing that ppl seem to hear. They often don't even know that the band is still together, let alone putting out quality music, until they attend a concert.

The music industry today is like viral videos, in that there are just too many players, & too much product. I guess that's why some ppl get stuck in genres...so they can limit what gets through the fog.

It IS true, though, that the merch certainly could have helped the Beatles.

I remember the lunch boxes, the schoolbook covers, the back packs, the buttons, cripes, it went on & on, didn't it?

Of course, very little of that $ actually made its way to the band, back then. In that regard, I suppose, today's industry is far better, save for the pirated stuff...

... today's market is completely disinterested in how or even IF any particular act develops & gets better. Their 1st CD may be heavily marketed, but after that, they're totally on their own.

If a band had a successful debut album, their second album will be marketed too. If that album bombs, then yes, there "IS" plenty of alternatives for the record company to then focus it's energies. As far as "artist development", this is on the INCREASE, not DECREASE. Out of necessity, record labels have restructured their business model, and now use what is called a "360 deal" which gives them a piece of concerts and merch, in addition to album sales. In exchange, the labels claim they now spend more time and resources, developing the artists and cultivating them more closely than in the past.

As far as record companies not caring about artists.... they have NEVER cared about artists, or music, for that matter. They are in BUSINESS to make money. They hope for a return on their substantial investment, which is about $100,000 per album. 90% of all albums fail, which means the record company LOSES money on 90% of it's product.

If you FART on a record, and millions of people buy it, the label will market it, give you a second album... etc... They don't care about the
"music", or the artist... they care that the act is PROFITABLE!

Who determines what 'fails in the market?' I haven't heard anything new from Jethro Tull since what...1980? They've put new music out.

Same for Peter Gabriel, for that matter. Little to no exposure.

Live, Matchbox 20, Goo Goo Dolls, Smashing Pumpkins, Wallflowers...the list goes on...have all these bands just quit putting out hits, or have they just become ignored by the industry? I suspect that some of them simply quit, but certainly not all of them.

On the other hand, you have bands like Nickleback, who just keep putting out the same CD over & over, & still get air play.

Obviously, I'm out of touch with the industry...

I remember the lunch boxes, the schoolbook covers, the back packs, the buttons, cripes, it went on & on, didn't it?

Of course, very little of that $ actually made its way to the band, back then....

Actually, the reverse is true. Bands were usually in charge of their own merch, and in control of whoever they contracted for producing the merch, because they traditionally owned the TRADEMARK to their own name and image. With the modern "360 deal" they are now LESS in control of their own merch, and now SHARE those revenues with the label.

For me, what is good about the WILD WEST state of the modern music scene, is that through the internet and sites like MySpace and YouTube... ANY creative band has a shot to get heard and then parlay that into success. When you achieve YOUR OWN fame, you are then far more in control, of whatever record deal you make... or... you are free to create your own label, and maintain complete control.

The 10 year old opera singer who achieved fame through America's Got Talent, is a prime example. I believe her family started their own label to produce her album (done BEFORE she achieved fame on TV) and her album is now #10 on the charts.

Deals with big labels are designed, so that the label recoups ALL their expenses FIRST and hopefully for them, even makes a profit, from the artists first album or two. The labels know that most bands will not outlive their second album, so they gouge the artist for the first few albums, and only the bands that outlive that milestone, are then in a position to negotiate a better deal, for their following albums.

Also... In the past, bands could rest on producing successful albums, and through payola, the label was assured that their artist would get radio play nationwide. They didn't have to tour much if they didn't want to. Today however, it is very difficult for artists to stay on top, if they are not touring regularly. And especially today, with piracy, the money from touring, and merch sales at concerts, represent an even more crucial block of the band's revenues, so that they almost MUST tour regularly, to stay profitable and relevant. I think that's a GOOD THING, and it prevents most bands from being lazy, and out of touch with their fans.

Like most things... things today, are DIFFERENT, not necessarily better or worse. There are ALWAYS pros "AND" cons, to every new change in society.

Who determines what 'fails in the market?'

The ultimate arbiter has always been the paying fans. But that is a two edged sword, and as the labels know very well, the public's taste is FICKLE, and what is hot this year, could be next year's joke. In the past the label had more control over this, as they PAID radio stations to play the songs the label wanted played, and this tends to brainwash the public into thinking it must be good, because I hear it on the radio every day. Today, it is MUCH HARDER to brainwash the public on what music, they "should" like, or not like, because through the freedom of the Internet, and viral videos, the paying public has FAR MORE CHOICES, and they also no longer have to buy an album BLIND, and get disappointed that there are only two good songs on the album, with the rest being filler music.

Today, you can hear a clip of EVERY SONG on the album, available to listen, online, at any time you choose, before you decide whether to buy the whole album or not. This means that if you have a sucky album, you will be getting millions of downloads of ONE SONG (their hit, their good one) as opposed to millions of downloads of 5 to 10 songs or more! The fan is free now, to buy only the song or two they really want. I would think this would force bands to put out better albums, if they hope for more sales. It also would likely open up the market again to bands who produce CONCEPT ALBUMS or whose music requires a full album to tell the whole story. Think groups like Pink Floyd, or modern groups like Coheed and Cambria.

This is good for music fans, who traditionally got ripped off, buying a bad album, to get the two good songs on it. Once again... some things in the industry today are BETTER, while others are WORSE.

Who determines what 'fails in the market?' I haven't heard anything new from Jethro Tull since what...1980? They've put new music out.

Same for Peter Gabriel, for that matter. Little to no exposure.

Live, Matchbox 20, Goo Goo Dolls, Smashing Pumpkins, Wallflowers...the list goes on...have all these bands just quit putting out hits, or have they just become ignored by the industry? I suspect that some of them simply quit, but certainly not all of them.

On the other hand, you have bands like Nickleback, who just keep putting out the same CD over & over, & still get air play.

Obviously, I'm out of touch with the industry...

Those bands are all pretty much still plugging away, regardless of radio airplay. They still make albums and their core fans still buy them and go to their concerts, although the number of them may be fewer. The trick is to establish your core fans; this used to be easier if you had a big radio hit, but can still be done via the internet, college radio, and other strategies.

Hey Jealousy
Found out about you
Follow you down

... Good stuff. You can hear the strains of sadness in there... obviously authentic seeing as the guy that wrote those songs killed himself.

I really do miss their music
and im really excited to see what else theyre able to come up with!