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Metal and symphonic music is a perfect blend. Metal heads who claim that metal bands are "sell outs" when they do this, don't have a real grasp of the spirit of metal. The spirit of metal is very much like the spirit of symphonic music. I've always said that if all symphonic composers were resurrected, a lot of them would revel in the ability to use the technology available to metal musicians.

The whole purpose of using so many musicians is all about VOLUME! But even volume wasn't enough for those guys. A lot of them wanted to FEEL it in the same way metal musicians want to feel their music. Beethoven's Wellington's Victory used real cannons below the stage, because he had no other way to simulate the realistic "thump" of a cannon being fired. He wanted the audience to experience it as if they were right there on the battlefield. The effect was so effective, I read, many in the audience during its first performance fled the theater.

Those guys wanted to wow their audiences very much in the same way that metal musicians do today. Hell, they were the long hairs of their day too, and often had similar reputations.

Given the ability to wow the audiences with fewer musicians, and not having to deal with as many temperamental egos, I bet most of those guys would jump at the chance to make that much noise with fewer musicians and amplification!
Metal and symphony orchestras were made for each other.

Too bad the YouTube videos don't have very good music tracks. But then, they DO want you to buy the CD's and DVD's. What with what it must have cost them to produce that concert, who can blame them?

I agree, heavy metal is an extension of symphonic music. But they try to put a wall up between the 2 genres. At this concert/recording both groups were a bit standoffish. But once the audience became wild the San Fran Symphony and Metalica became 1.

My old (now disbanded) band did sort of ambient symphonic metal. Although it was really more of a mix of progressive metal and post rock, it was essentially blending the same elements.

EDIT: I removed the links because they're irrelevant. I don't have any examples of my band doing what this thread is describing, though we did actually play something like it on a regular basis.

Yes it could work, but at the end of the day won't it lead back to classical once more?
I'd love that. Heavy metal symphonic? Are you kidding me, or did I walk down a strange road?

Sure chordal patterns, even now with EFFECTS. can sound that way. You Gitbox Giants really ought to listen to REAL Symphonies before you compare such classics to one man and six strings.
Composers use everything, not just ROCK guitar. Those days FOR NOW have gone. I think they will return and some GOOD new bands emerge, hence logging into the new network of prog rock.

Those people who can work several instruments without smashing a string are experts, they are still around and in growing numbers.

So there. NO. It doesn't qualify, never will, its harsh. Good music, but not a symph, perhaps Nymph? Joking.
Just 400 cents.

Sentient.
Hi.
Yes I do agree. Multiple personalities create multiple problems, but with a good leader, like your composer for instance, He will quell trouble in good time.

Your first para, is awesome Sentient, I totally agree.

I think? We are both saying the same thing? Anyway to my mind if you construct something in iron, and its rigid, or at least you feel, 'thats the way it should sound'. Then yes, all good and well. Get people in to do it, if needed? I think what narked me was the use of the compressor, grunge chords, obvious excellent musicianship but to call it a 'symphony' Grates on me.
Sure there are bands out there who master low and high, many of them in fact, but its just not a symphony. I'm sure there are those here who actually write them, who possibly might agree?

Coordination of the masses, outweighs the 5 member pop group any day right?

Great reply Sentient, thank you.

Wonderful post again Sentient.
Yes I know that for a fact too, as you do. Many muso's are classically trained in Rock bands etc.
My point is, if you will? Why doesn't that show? Why don't we have guitar ensembles, products that come from that?

Is it FEAR? I mean fear of being different?
What do you think?

Yeah, I'm certainly not saying the music itself sounds the same, though there are musical similarities, or that simply by listening alone anyone should be able to hear the relationship between them (though I have spoken with some classically trained musicians who feel there is definite similarity, at least with some orchestral music). I honestly didn't understand it until I began to really THINK about why quite a lot of heavy Rockers had either performed with orchestras, or had recorded very symphonic sounding albums. I used to really DIG into the used and cut out record bins, and discovered a long time ago that quite a large number of hard rock musicians had produced an equally large number of opus like works, though most of it was done with modern electronics rather than orchestras. Still, the intent was very clear.

A huge number of the old timers were classically trained before they started on hard rock.

Paul Hindemith was a composer from the mid-20th century. He fled Europe during the war and taught music theory at Harvard. I performed a composition of his a few years ago at a community college. It was off the wall insane "solo for Flute". Several days after the performance, I got the biggest applause from the jazz band. THe jazz band related to the music way more than the standard classical musician.

I think that for Metal ambience, you need the ambience from an Industrial (hey genre!) or Urban scene. I just can't think of any secluded stream where grinding guitars and pounding drums as ambience makes sense. Maybe if there was a rockslide into the stream....

Wow, I'm humbled by how this discussion is still going and am looking at this from new insight I didn't have - thank you for your input and feedback!

I think the word 'ambient' threw some people for a loop, and in the sense of what I was trying to survey, I guess I should've omitted it. I really do love how awesome classical and metal can mesh together, which is something anyone who's into symphonic metal obviously appreciates.

What would it take for symphonic metal to take off in the US in the same way it has in European countries?

A more mainstream approach, unfortunately.

Stuff like 3-4 minute limits on songs, good balance, a real singer, understandable words that aren't overly angry, fewer or no curse words, less emphasis on the guitar as the only solo instrument, the occasional uplifting feel-good song, & possibly vocal harmonies...but then it wouldn't be metal anymore, would it?

I agree wholeheartedly...more mainstream/radio-friendly