United States

It's so hot in AZ, their brains are burning.

Just ask my sister..she's in AZ as well.

terrible for music. Been living in the valley for 7 years now and just recently got back from a trip to Nashville to record a short EP with a friend of mine. Now that I'm back I compare every little thing to Nashville, it kind of sucks because I keep pissing off everyone I know. The attitude not just in the players but in the bars, clubs, people, etc. is just totally different in a city like Nashville where the average person still gives a damn about music, even if they weren't even musicians. I'm guessing most who live and play in the Phoenix area may know about the lack of passion people have in this city for music, it's quite depressing now that I have to compare it to a musical mecha such as nashville. I could be completely warped and wrong in my perception, but I feel it's unlikely. Anyone care to share any thoughts or perhaps other cities to check out and/or consider moving to? thanks.

First post on here too btw.

I play 4/5 nights a week in PHOENIX with a variety group. I've seen a huge change over the last ten years in clubs and there clients. Whether it's a casino, a club, dive bar ... or a private corporate gig. The crowds just rarely seem to "party" like the used to.

I attribute it to the very staunch DUI enforcement and subsequent penalties that are in place here. Take a look around you when you're driving home from a gig. Last night on the loop 101 I saw three cars pulled over and a total of 6 or 7 police cars during the 15 minute stretch I took. I also saw car pulled over not far from the 101 as I made my way home.

Of course....this is the same section of highway I drive three or four nights a week where some YO-YO going the wrong way on 101 crashed into a police car.



If you're not terrified to drink (even just a little) and drive in this town....you are stupid.

I've never been to Nashville..but from everything i've heard and now from you>> I think I'm going to move there...been to L.A....it's to cut throat for a man like me..
I know exactly what you're talking about sir...
this town(Phoenix) sucks for music...whether it be the shortage of quality venues or just the lame audiences...to many drugs and me attitudes
Everyone wants you to sound like the radio and pay you nothing in return...no one respects originality..i could go on and on
As a vocalist...I feel lost here

PHOENIX HAS BOASTED THAT IT GAVE BIRTH TO THE TUBES AND ALICE COOPER - YEAH, SO WHAT. THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TO PUT IT ON THE MAP I.E. NEW YORK, SEATTLE, VAN COUVER BC, LONDON. DURING THE 80'S IT ALMOST QUALIFIED BY PRODUCING THE JETZONS, GENTLEMEN AFTER DARK (FORMERLY THE PILLS, FROM TUCSON) AND THE MORAL MAJORITY WHO WOULD LATER MORPH INTO THE GIN BLOSSOMS, AND THAT SPAWNED DEAD HOT WORKSHOP WHO CHANGED THEIR DEAL TO THE REFRESHMENTS. I, ME, MOI, WAS IN SEVERAL FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL COMPETING GROUPS, PERFECT STRANGERS AROUND 1984, ISOTOPES AROUND 1990'S. BOTH CAME CLOSE TO RECORD DEALS. ONE MORE BAND IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GENERE, UNDERTOW BECAME CRUSHED, AND STILL ARE CRUSHED BUT THEY NOW SOUND LIKE EVERY OTHER THRASH METAL BAND OUT THERE (SORRY HARRY, ALWAYS BEEN A FAN OF YOUR GUITAR PLAYING). THE OTHER BANDS DISINTERGRATED, LACK OF PASSION, DEDICATION OR A STYLE AND SOUND THAT WAS VERY LIMITED BY FASHION - IT WAS THE 80S THING. IT SOUNDED GREAT LIVE, DID NOT TRANSLATE TO CD, VINYL ETC. NOW, THERE ARE TOO MANY OTHER DISTRACTIONS, TEXT MESSAGING, VIDEO GAMES ETC. MUSIC DOESN'T MEAN AS MUCH AS IT ONCE DID BACK IN THE 60S AND 70S. IT STILL IS ALIVE, BUT YOU GOTTA SEEK IT OUT. I'M TRYING TO PUT A BAND TOGETHER RIGHT NOW - NOTHING. I MIGHT GIVE UP AND OPEN UP A WICKER PORNO SHOP IN WILLIAMS OR SOMETHING LOL

OH YES, I FORGOT TO MENTION, THE BANDS I USED TO OPEN FOR MENTIONED IN MY LAST POST, MAN, THEY PARRRRTTIEEED, NOT JUST A WHOLE LOT OF DRINKING, BUT MANY OF THEM WERE JUNKIES AND DRUGGIES LIKE ME. AND I COULD CARE LESS, I DON'T MIND. ITS ROCK N' ROLL. ITS A FACT, LOOK AT WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS - YEAH, YEAH, SO DAVE FUSTAINE GOT HIMSELF ALL DETOXED AND WHATNOT, BUT NOW HE SUCKS. LAYNE STAYLEY FROM AIC PASSED AWAY OD'D FROM HEROIN, BUT HEY, HE WAS PART OF A DECENT VOLUME OF WORK OF CD RELEASES BEFORE LEAVING THIS WORLD. ITS THE NATURE OF THE BEAST, THE BUSINESS. ROCK N;' ROLL AIN'T ABOUT PERRIER WATER AND TOFU MAN. PEOPLE SAY, "OH, I DON'T DO THE HARD STUFF" BUT THEY WILL SMOKE (NICOTINE IS THE MOST ADDICTIVE DRUG AND IT DOESN'T EVEN GIVB YA A DECENT HIGH!) AND KNOCK BACK WHISKEY SHOTS THEN KILL SOMEONE IN A DRUNK DRIVING ACCIDENT. THEY FORGET, BOTH ARE DRUGS.

..too each his own on partying..but personally I'm pretty clean
rarely drink..and don't want to any f*ckups on stage with me anymore
lost a few great friends to heroin..all musicians
I agree..and hope you start a good one( put AZ> on the map!!)...no friken screaming rock bands..it's been overdone
almost blew my voice out a few times...
I'm a rock crooner not a screamer

My target audience is 30 to 70>>listen to the songs on the commercials now..and see which bands are coming out of retirement>>>the rockers are in power...
and they and their women want to dance and have fun at concerts again
What a new concept..Rock you can dance too !?? ~~(-;

Yep, lean times in AZ, for the most part, although many uber-retro acts are cleaning up in the retirement communities. It won't be too much longer before the classic rock breaks out of the biker bars and AJ into the trailer parks and retirement communities, some of which actually pay well, but for now, they mostly want bebop. That's OK by me. I can pla a dinnertime jazz gig with a pianist, then go across town to rock until closing with the cover band, and come home with a few Benjamins, and a decent buzz from the free drinks.

I'm working 4 nights a week playing to "Baby-Boomers". No trailer parks yet....but I agree with you. It's coming.

......And I'm making money and having a blast.

Baby-Boomers (Born between 1946-1964) are the largest segment of the Arizona population. They are also the fastest growing segment - and Maricopa county is one of the largest Baby-Boomer segments (top 5) in the USA. All indications show that this trend will continue for many more years.

The Baby-Boomers also have money (60% earn over 6 figures)....are in decent health, and want to enjoy life vibrantly. They consume alcohol, enjoy active sex lives, and many even smoke weed.

They were careless when they were kids....(think drugs, sex, love - ya know= "Hippies") and now want to spend the remaining years of their lives much like the early years. Just a little better.

Almost all of of them grew up listening to rock and roll. Elvis, Buddy Holly, The Beatles, Creedance Cleerwater Revival, The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Cream, Jimmy Hendrix, Kiss, Boston, Bad Company, Cheap Trick, Led Zepplin and even Van Halen. Mix in a little KC & The Sunshine Band, some disco stuff too.... It makes for a pretty diverse song list to chose from.


My point is....if you like to play classic rock and roll....there's a huge market out there that is craving bands that aren't "OLDIES" bands. (there is a difference) A huge group of people.....just waiting to pay you to play.

My 2 cents.

..i'm glad somebody else see's the market shifting back to fun music
It's great you're working so much..

Of course i want to play my own music >which is definatley influenced by classic hard rock and R/B...but I'll wait my turn>

But to get noticed,stay working and to jumpstart one's career >i feel you always need to always fill the dancefloor..I have no intention of ever playing "oldies" the oldies way...

But to get noticed,stay working and to jumpstart one's career >i feel you always need to always fill the dancefloor...

It's a very simple recipe.....and the same recipe that we used when I played full-time back in the 80's & 90's.

1. Get the women on the dance floor.
2. The men will come to the club if there's women on the dance floor. (regardless if they like your band or not)
3. The women will come to the club if there's men in the club.
4. Collect the money at the door.



It really is THAT simple.

terrible for music. Been living in the valley for 7 years now and just recently got back from a trip to Nashville to record a short EP with a friend of mine. Now that I'm back I compare every little thing to Nashville, it kind of sucks because I keep pissing off everyone I know. The attitude not just in the players but in the bars, clubs, people, etc. is just totally different in a city like Nashville where the average person still gives a damn about music, even if they weren't even musicians. I'm guessing most who live and play in the Phoenix area may know about the lack of passion people have in this city for music, it's quite depressing now that I have to compare it to a musical mecha such as nashville. I could be completely warped and wrong in my perception, but I feel it's unlikely. Anyone care to share any thoughts or perhaps other cities to check out and/or consider moving to? thanks.

First post on here too btw.

I feel you, it's very hard to find people who play instruments to jam with and most of them like the worst music there could be or they dont listen to music at all...

I been playing original music out here and this place does have more than it's quota of Flakes for sure. I have been in Three regular bands over the years, and several side projects and now a writing project.

Drummers are the hardest to find, then a reliable singer. I am a bassist so I do not have trouble finding people to jam with. Unfortunately, when i show up to jam, if my bass cost more than the entire rig both guitarists are using, my enthusiasm drops a bit.

So while I like living in AZ, music is tough for an all original act. I have been seriously considering learning a bunch of covers and joining up with a cover act just for the fun of playing out again.

All I can say is Joe's Grotto will always have a special place in my heart and thus I always try to make it any new project's first show.

So while I like living in AZ, music is tough for an all original act. I have been seriously considering learning a bunch of covers and joining up with a cover act just for the fun of playing out again.

That's what I did.

When I first came to Phoenix.....it seemed like everyone I met or spoke with had a "plan"......(all had delusions of grandeur). Yet as soon as we got into the rehearsal room.....it was all about jamming and mental masturbation.

No one had a business plan. They just seemed to think that "if I play it...they will come!"

They didn't have a freeking clue.

Combine this with the fact that todays younger generation doesn't support original local artists as I think they should - (blame it on the crap they hear on the radio anymore) and the fact that club owners won't pay to support it....(they can't make any money either) you end up with a whole scene that is a mess.

There isn't one thing you can place the blame on....but - one could argue that it started with MTV 30 years ago. (that's a whole 'nother debate)

You can lead a horse to water...but you can't make him drink. In this town...there's no horse....and there's no water. (and it's not just Phoenix either.)

So....I play covers (and some originals) to older folks that have money and buy alcohol. They support us..and the club owners....and they put tip money in our tip jar.

"I don't sell a lot of records..but I sell a lot of beer".


I'm ok with it. Some hate me for it. Haters gonna hate.

So be it.

It beats the hell out of jamming in my living room with a bunch of dreamers.

"I don't sell a lot of records..but I sell a lot of beer".

Isn't Phoenix one of the major retirement cities? That could be a major part of the problem.

Isn't Phoenix one of the major retirement cities? That could be a major part of the problem.

Good point....Let's talk about BABY BOOMERS....who are now the major retirement segment of the community.

The states that have the highest percentage of Baby Boomers in their population are Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Connecticut and Montana.

There's a lot of BABY BOOMERS in Arizona. (Born between 1946-1965).....which is an opportunity depending on how you look at it. It's also one of the areas that expects too have the most within the next twenty years.

http://seniors.lovetoknow.com/Baby_Boomer_Statistics

From my experience...Baby Boomers aren't like your typical 60 year old from twenty years ago. They aren't interested in spending their retirement resting, playing shuffleboard, or having card night. Most have disposable incomes and I read somewhere that almost 50% have incomes over $100k a year. (can't find the link...but I've got it somewhere)

Best of all....they grew up listening to some great Classic Rock music....and they still like going out to hear classic rock bands. Best of all.....They still like to drink, dance and shag. (sound familiar?)

They can also be a lot of fun to play to.

I'm not saying by any means that they are a better audience to play to that a younger one. Not at all. It is what it is. But...some of the better gigs I've done over the last ten years were to older crowds. They just know how to party and raise hell....and they're not amateurs.

However...from a BUSINESS standpoint. Baby Boomers are more profitable for club owners/sportsbar owners etc when you look at the end-of-the-night receipts. They buy the higher margin drinks, buy food.....and spend much more at the bar overall. I know this for a fact....as some of the clubs we play we get a % of the bar. Older crowds make us more money most of the time. And the waitresses tell us the tips are MUCH better too. (everyone is happy!)

Bottom line....at the end of the day....... bands need club owners. Yes....there may be other ways to promote your band, maybe play a gig here and there once a month for very little profit, but the club owner is your number one source of exposure....and there's a lot of them.

I guess my point is that you're not going to sell a lot of pork chops in a mostly Jewish community. Don't blame the Jewish community. If you can't seem to get your band off the ground in your market.....YOU need to go to another market that fits your band.

Again......it's business.

(and I didn't even mention "PRODUCT")


Have a business plan.



(thanks for hearing out my two cents.)