General Music Chat

I think Phil, lalong and Paradox have some valid points.

The audience is getting very dumbed down ... music is like background noise to them, they wear it in their ears all day. Like lalong states they can get inferior music anywhere ... and it good enough for them.

We had to really fight with the venues on this our to get our 1500 guarantee per show and 2500 guarantee at a festival, even thou we packed the place and had them all dancing.

I don't know what the answer is ... it's like a race to the bottom like many things (wages, crappy products etc.). I hope that one day the pendulum may swing the other way but I think I may be dead by then.

You could do what Slacker suggested ... rent a hall ... but there is risk involved in that ... I've lost money more that once going that route

Probably a the most important post on the topic Prevost. Yes people, just like myself in the old days who carried a beat box around with me, anything so I could hear my music. Probably much to the annoyance of people around me too.

What has changed? So far as I see it not much really, except the listener is able to hear more closely, even if Mp3's are rubbish, we all know that. But that's the real point isn't it? Getting the listener to the music, or vice versa?

It's the 'Vice versa' we are concerned with here I think right? I'm not familiar with venues other than going to them over here. What I've seen is a non targeted audience, people mostly out for the night. Some really good bands, but nothing that would make your head wobble frankly.

That said there are some superb acts right on my doorstep. I think they might have a different viewpoint, owing to a younger age perhaps? Even so their music is really good, every penny worth a visit.

I think and correct me if I'm wrong? The onus is, as it has always been. Upon the Artist to prove his/her worth. Sure the big companies create marketable products, this is a known factor. But hasn't this also always been the case? We've all been there, there are no surprises at all, in anything. Bums on seats, sells tickets/beer/paraphernalia. Pretty simple really.

One instance I can think of is a band locally who have a great reputation. I've seen them many times. I won't drop names. What I heard first was fantastic. After 7 times in seeing them, perhaps more? the set never changed over a period of 8 years For me it got really boring.
They still get bookings. I guess its about where you are, what you want from it and so on. They are very lively on stage, good to look at.

Why did I write this?
I think there are two sides of any coin and that its about both parts meeting in some way perhaps? Maybe its a longer walk now, but its still the same path.

Dunno?
Just my tuppence and it won't hold me back.
Best regards.

I think Phil, lalong and Paradox have some valid points.
The audience is getting very dumbed down ... music is like background noise to them, they wear it in their ears all day.

Audience is a good point.

No union could draw a crowd for you no matter what. You have to target your own audience. If you want to play current pop, rock, or whatever, you have to target that crowd. But are they going to go for what they consider a bunch of old fogies playing current rock or pop? Hell no. They want to hear their own generation just as you wanted to hear yours when you were younger. I'm not sure they really want to see a bunch of balding raisins holding guitars dancing around on a bandstand.

You have to target the audience in your age group that want to hear the music you play. For some it would be nursing homes. For others it may be earlier rock. Mid 40's crowd. Kids aren't going to come and see you because they, for the most part, want to hear the music of their generation played by musicians of their generation. You can diversify, but by doing that you are not targeting anyone in particular. And that means lower gates and a smaller following. And for some age groups, the surviving following that actively participate in club music is fading.

This whole thing about unionizing sounds like scabs wanting higher wages buy letting some other band hire you after they fight to get the price and the venue. Not meant to be offensive, that is what it sounds like to me. One solution is to find your niche and an audience that YOU can draw and get to follow you. If you prove that you can consistently pack a house you can get a good price.

There is a band around here that I shall not name. They play for an older rock crowd and play the oldies that that crowd associates with. They are NOT that good. They get top dollar and have a great following. Their skill as musicians is far secondary to the selections they choose to play. They occasionally graft in new material of the day that they think will appeal to their target audience. They play just enough new stuff to keep a younger generation a wee bit interested, if and when they show up. but they are not their target audience. AND THEY HAVE TO TURN DOWN GIGS. And there is also a country band that has a huge following, but they are all top shelf musicians. Still they attract mostly people in their own age group, and they play what their crowd wants to hear.

If you want to be a whore, you have to act like a whore and play what they, not you like to play. You have to play what they heard when they were growing up to keep them around. If you want to have fun, play what you like to play. But don't expect to get great jobs. Few are going to pimp out 40-60 year old bands. Maybe if you are good enough the younger generation will catch on and keep you in mind when you are playing somewhere. But you can't count on them.

Neither a union nor a federal mandate can force people to come and see you. You can not force a club to hire you for whatever you think you are worth. Haven't you already discovered that you aren't worth much? I think that is what started this post in the first place. Prevost82 said it. Shoot for fairs and bigger venues. I do not think the younger audience is as dumbed down as you say. They are simply enjoying the music of their generation played as it is in their generation. It isn't any more moronic to them as Kiss or Elvis was to your parents generation. You aren't going to steal their generations music from them any more than your parents could steal yours. They said the same thing about Elvis after a generation of Sinatra. Glen Miller and the likes.

You have to do your footwork and research like any other business. Find your target audience. Learn to play what they want to hear. Find out how to get them to where you are playing. Advertise in a way that tweaks their interest, in places they will see or hear your advertising. In a nutshell, pimp your own damned self.

Hey dudes. we're older. Younger folks aren't interested in us. You have to be cute, have a tight ass, a cute haircut and all that crap. And a Justin Beiber haircut looks pretty damned stupid on a 60 year old.

Everyone sing along with Bobby.. Play music..... Be happy....

Locks are for honest people. Criminals are never deterred by locks.

I am sick to death of the Federal governments involvement in my kitchen, my living room, my bath room, my front yard, my back yard, my tools, and almost every other aspect of my life. I want my freedom and liberty and I want the federal government out of my private life, especially my musical life. Anything touched by the federal government and gets regulated, gets controlled. Do we want the federal, state or local municipalities controlling music? God forbid. They control far more than the Constitution ever came close to giving them authority to do.

No way. Keep government out of music. And get them out of a thousand other things, as well.

Sounds like the basis for an interesting album concept.

Very Very well said Slacker you are a wise man. The only thing I will add to that is my parents HATED the Beatles my mom even once said they are the ones that started all of this dope smokin LOL! That was a big part of the music of my generation Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, The Mamas and the Papas, James Taylor, and so on. I however did like some of my parents music growing up learning Classical music, Ray Price, Tony Bennett, Johnny Cash, and so on. Now my kids are the same way they grew up listening to all of the above plus some heavier music. Now I sit around with my kids (they are my bestest friends) and we listen to music their's and mine. I don't think the rest of America is really any different. Kids these days as Slacker said have their own Music but they also like the classics. We may not like some of their music but give the younger generation credit their not that stupid!

What drumsinhisheart said x1000!

My 20 year old's favorite song? Wipe Out. Go figure.

Great points Slacker. Love your guitar skills by the way. (Again)
However the word "FEDERAL" has no consequence in what me, and myself creates. It does not matter.

I am a FREE person who creates what he wants to create. Some like it, some don't. Can't please everyone can yeah?

Not throwing bombs nor strapping them them as some idiots do, I prefer the wilder side, because the wilder side, that of Mother Earth will daunt all those who would do harm to others in some quaint and inhuman way. will come back, as all things eventually do.

Music. Federal? No consequence! Stuff the copyright laws too please. There are many.

Time to shed.

frikkum frakkum frukkum foo! I STILL say we need big ugly bulky militant musicians to kick some pansy freebie ass!

OH GOD HERE HE GOES AGAIN.
We have a political side to this and a musical side to this all wrapped up in one.
Sorry to be such a staunch free market capitalist , and I agree that govt regulations are essential in situations such as BP. Funny they did not work.
Outside of that I don't want or need any help or protection from the unions or our govt. I want them to stay the f**k away, so I can succeed in any venture I choose. If I don't like the job I'M NOT GONNA WORK IN THE COAL MINES FOR SMALL PAY. Take this job and shove it. If you wish to call it criminal I call it American.
Prevost,, you gave credit to Slacker about free market capitalism, RENTING A VENUE. This is what RECORD companies did forever to bring a band to fruition and profit. They used all there capitalist marketing skills, risked capital[money] and took all the risk associated with ANY business.

Funny thing is this is a very core value of American entrepreneurs willing to take risk to reap tremendous rewards. Half of what I read here seems to think that is wrong.

The other half has to realize you have to have a really great product to compete with record companies that are backing CYRUS and whomever.
Go ask yourself,,Are you just playing one song after another in a bar,maybe really well, Or are you putting out such a superior product that your show brings new life to any music you play.
When You Walk Out ,And Hit That First Chord... Did you just win over EVERY ONE IN THE AUDIENCE?

Good Topic but I dont think making musicians welfare recipients is the answer.

I have mixed feelings these days cause 3 yrs ago I got my old cover band back together and we hit it hard. I thought we would be able to up price our group cause we are better than most bar bands. Not bragging we just are, we put on a show, we play what it takes to make a dumbed down crowd happy and dance, we put people in the venues we play in. But we stil havetn been able to get a better than whatever the goin rate is price. Why? I dont know, whenever I bring it up with a venue owner they say we love you but so and so will do it for this. Even if so and so doesnt bring anyone in. The market is tough. Maybe its me, I dont know.

There are musician unions, just not in the area that most of us play in.

When the janitors, bartenders, bouncers, waitresses, etc. ALL make more money per hour than the band members then something is WRONG. It doesn't matter how many people show up, whether the place is packed or empty. There are fixed costs for the venue owner. Band members should be a fixed cost, just like all the other employees. When I gig I consider myself an employee that night. I play my ass off for four sets, show up on time, start on time, finish on time. I expect to be paid at least minimum wage. That's not too much to ask, is it?

Bingo Glen.
Bingo Slack.
Sometimes it's hard for people to admit they don't have IT.
IT is that special something that some have that is very rare.
IT can propel someone into Stardom.
For every one of them there are 10,000 without it.

It can be hard to put your finger on.
Maybe you were born a Cyrus and your father pulled strings and called in favors for you.
Maybe you were born so handsome, women melted at your feet (Elvis)
Maybe you had unmatched instrument skills. (Hendrix)
Maybe you were just F***ING talented. (ELTON JOHN)

If you don't have IT and you don't work with one of those that do.
If you are not part of a band that has proven commercial success.
FOO Fighters, Train many others and you don't have the connections
to propel you where you think you ought to be.

I believe Slacks attitude is the healthiest. He is content within himself
with nothing to prove or envy. He is happy with his music and whatever
level of participation he chooses to give others. I think he has his
opinions but doesn't appear to let them eat away at him like some do.
If you live in an area that is not as populated as where others live.
It is not realistic to expect to make gobs of money or even fair money.
I think many here have great situations like Jimmydanger. He seems to be very content and satisfied. Sooner or later I think most get to a point where they need to fall back in Love with the music, the way you did
when you were young and the music made you smile not the money.
Sans has a good perspective on that.

I think it's good to strive to be and get better but within reality.

Just my thoughts.

Ok I just put another inane song of dribble that expresses the way I felt 30 plus years ago about having to rely on anyone else for a paycheck or anything else for that matter. It is called FREE SPIRIT.

Sorry if I am fiercely independent and I just don't understand how anyone can put their fate in the hands someone else.

PS The girl who played sax on this was really good.... long long time ago.

You are right Glen, she is awsome.
I like that song from end to end. It
carries itself throughout. Has anyone
ever told you, you have a ZZ TOP
characteristic in your vocals?