General Music Chat

Half of the first Zep album was covers. The Stones and The Beatles both started out playing covers. Just because you write songs doesn't make them good. That's up to your audience to decide. What, do you think there's 10 million good songwriters in the world?

Half of the first Zep album was covers. The Stones and The Beatles both started out playing covers. Just because you write songs doesn't make them good. That's up to your audience to decide. What, do you think there's 10 million good songwriters in the world?

At least.

Get real. The number's in the thousands. The chances of you being successful doing music are 1 in 50,000 I would bet. Most musician's worst enemy is the big head they carry around. Don't get me wrong, I encourage anyone who's motivated to write, record and perform, but I would advise that you do so after learning your craft first. But please be prepared for no one to really care, and a fallback plan wouldn't hurt. Reality sucks.

Get real. The number's in the thousands. The chances of you being successful doing music are 1 in 50,000 I would bet. Most musician's worst enemy is the big head they carry around. Don't get me wrong, I encourage anyone who's motivated to write, record and perform, but I would advise that you do so after learning your craft first. But please be prepared for no one to really care, and a fallback plan wouldn't hurt. Reality sucks.

Please. Reality? Try doing your math realistically with a 6 billion person plus world population. 10 million sounds like a real LOWBALL to me. On top of that, what are your criteria for "good song writers"? You mean good song writers or ones that have managed to con their ways into studios and radio stations?

Half of the first Zep album was covers. The Stones and The Beatles both started out playing covers. Just because you write songs doesn't make them good. That's up to your audience to decide. What, do you think there's 10 million good songwriters in the world?

Let me bring it down a fraction. If they never attempted "originals" and were content on doing only "covers" you never would have heard of them. That was the point I was making.

If you want to hit "BIG" in music, you have to do originals and get them to go over. If not, you take the sure bet as a cover band that does some originals.

I don't know what is so complex about this issue. If a band is doing even a few originals, and everyone is asking for recordings of them and where your playing next and your packing the venues, your on to something.

If not it's time to re-tool, or keep playing the stuff going no where to stay true to "musical integrity", or realize the song writing is not good and just play covers.

The last option is why there are so many cover bands.

I was in band when I was 19 and we had 3 original tunes. Every practice we had more and more kids showing up untill we had no more room for them. Everyone wanted tapes (dating myself) and I was making like 25-30 a practice. Next thing we knew we were getting letters from all over the country and Europe. We had 3 tunes and didn't even think anything of them.

I was in another all original band with 25 tunes or so that was alot more "pro" playing clubs all over Chicago and we were lucky to have 20 people show up.

That's the difference.

The Beatles and Stones started out doing covers, true. When they both started recording that was the "status quo". They had to fight the record companies, and eventually just refuse, to get to do their own material. The record companies relied on a songwriter's pool for songs, and that's what you recorded. Not quite the same as cover tunes, but close, and they got their start (before recording) on cover tunes like most everyone else. Dylan, Clapton, the boys in Zeppelin, the Who, most of them came from the land of cover tune bar bands. They just happened to be excellent songwriters as well, and once the Beatles opened the doors, they were all able to put their musical genius on vinyl.

A lot of pop today is the same, but a much higher proportion of the recording artists are also songwriters. They also don't have to butt heads with producers to do their own stuff.

Myself, I've been mostly a cover tune guy, but have always wanted to get together with some good writers, the past few years more than ever. (I'm not a prolific songwriter myself, but do get a good idea now and then) Never was able to hook up with anyone serious and dependable. I'm starting to be more inclined to play my own stuff when someone asks me to play a bit. I'm also looking more for an original band to get together with than a cover tune band. And writing a bit more it seems, I have no idea why, but I've only written a small few decent tunes in the past 30 years, and doubled that number in the past 5...who knows...

But I'll probably always play a few cover tunes now and then, there are some that are just too much fun to play...

Ah, the sweet sound of sense, thanks Paleo. I too have been an active musician for 30 years, I've pretty much done it all, I've produced 13 recording projects and written a good amount of tunes that had varying amounts of success. Of course the words 'good' and 'success' are subjective, but we were fairly well-known in the Detroit market and lasted 7 years as a band. We were courted by a small Cali label who wanted us to change the name of the band and we declined, being proud. So I think I have a fair amount of credentials in this matter. I also attend concerts and local shows weekly, and still enjoy collecting music on vinyl and CD (yeah I'm a freak). My rock collection includes 3000+ works, representing 4000 writers (just guessing there). My classical collection includes 1000+ titles representing 100 composers. So out of all the music I've collected in the past 40 years there are less than 5000 writers that I like enough to spend money on. Where are the rest hiding? As you mentioned, it's only been since the Beatles that it was acceptable for the artist to also be the writer. The r&r paradox is that almost anyone can learn to play the guitar and write some tunes; it is much rarer to find someone who can write good music.

id have to say i like the origianl but sometimes the original is too old to be remembered or bad quality so i think that sometimes a cover is neccessary to revive the song.

Perhaps it'd help if we classify the musicians who write and play originals.
.
In order to assess a student's progress in school, kids are assigned a grade of A - F.
.
A = excellent
B = better than average
C = average
D = below average
E = poor
F = failed - hold back a grade.
.
Think about this, please: by the very definition of the word, MOST of us have to be average.
Perhaps 50% of people who write originals are AVERAGE, more or less, with 25% of people better than average, and 25% below average.
.
And - most listeners have 'average' musical requirements . . .
.
To be considered a great original song, a song probably should rate an "A," or close to it . . .
.
So - most people who write orginals will write an original that is probably bad, or mediocre, at best. (And - judge the song, not the person who wrote it, btw)
If I judge a song, I try to disregard personal preferences in music styles.
I prefer certain styles, but I can still recognize talent in styles I dislike.
A good song is usually self - evident, whether it's 'my thing' or not.
.
So again:
Most songs ARE mediocre . . .
I'm using mediocre in the sense of an average song, as in what is being broadcast.
So MOST songs could be graded: "B," "C," "D," "E," or "F."
Average = C.
.
If you try to 'make it' with only a bunch of "C" originals, you'll probably have a hard time at it.
If you try to 'make it' with a bunch of "A+" originals, you might find things a little easier . . .

Very good thread with your original post Alan! Every musician knows there capabilities, Limitations, etc. as an Artist. As stated before by others, Being honest with yourself first, Is to 'mature' as a musician. [Peace]

Perhaps it'd help if we classify the musicians who write and play originals.
.
In order to assess a student's progress in school, kids are assigned a grade of A - F.
.
A = excellent
B = better than average
C = average
D = below average
E = poor
F = failed - hold back a grade.
.
Think about this, please: by the very definition of the word, MOST of us have to be average.
Perhaps 50% of people who write originals are AVERAGE, more or less, with 25% of people better than average, and 25% below average.
.
And - most listeners have 'average' musical requirements . . .
.
To be considered a great original song, a song probably should rate an "A," or close to it . . .
.
So - most people who write orginals will write an original that is probably bad, or mediocre, at best. (And - judge the song, not the person who wrote it, btw)
If I judge a song, I try to disregard personal preferences in music styles.
I prefer certain styles, but I can still recognize talent in styles I dislike.
A good song is usually self - evident, whether it's 'my thing' or not.
.
So again:
Most songs ARE mediocre . . .
I'm using mediocre in the sense of an average song, as in what is being broadcast.
So MOST songs could be graded: "B," "C," "D," "E," or "F."
Average = C.
.
If you try to 'make it' with only a bunch of "C" originals, you'll probably have a hard time at it.
If you try to 'make it' with a bunch of "A+" originals, you might find things a little easier . . .

Excellent Alan. I have always thought of myself as absolutely average. Still, I have been very fortunate with my abilities. To make that leap to greatness seems to take a combination of skill, luck, training and perserverance that very few posess.

If you want to hit "BIG" in music, you have to do originals and get them to go over. If not, you take the sure bet as a cover band that does some originals.

"Hitting it big" is not the only reason to write original material. In fact I venture to guess its not even the top reason. How about simply the need to write?

Wasn't it T.S. Eliot that said "A writer writes because they must"?

How about simply the need to write?
Wasn't it T.S. Eliot that said "A writer writes because they must"?

I know that's true for me. I started writing at 12 years old, and finding expression through music was often my "salvation". Travelling the road is hard for anyone, and for sure a 12 year old. And I had a difficult homelife because of an abusive step-father, so music became my therapy, my communion with God, it was everything that kept me balanced and whole inside.

I know that's true for me. I started writing at 12 years old, and finding expression through music was often my "salvation". Travelling the road is hard for anyone, and for sure a 12 year old. And I had a difficult homelife because of an abusive step-father, so music became my therapy, my communion with God, it was everything that kept me balanced and whole inside.

That's excellent. And you know, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I would bet you wouldn't stop writing even if none of your songs went into the BillBoard 100.

Right?

, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I would bet you wouldn't stop writing even if none of your songs went into the BillBoard 100.

I know that comment was directed at someone else, but I'll chime in by saying that although I'm not a prolific writer, as mentioned, I'll probably never stop writing my small bit now and then even if no more than 10 people ever hear any of them.

I started writing, or trying to, at about age 12 also. Wrote a pretty cool but very amateurish song that fit right in with the contemporary style, (1967ish) and for at least 10 years struggled to come up with LYRICS for something else. 2...3...4 weeks and I'd finally drag a line or two out of my head, wad it up and throw it away, one it was crud, two nothing I could think up would rhyme and make any sense...and I'd never even seen a joint before, (at least the first 5 years or so) so that was not an issue.

Finally gave up and have always gotten ideas here and there for tunes, but no lyrics...but I still have songs just pop into my head sitting there "doodling" on a guitar or piano. (As I mentioned elsewhere I basically suck at piano but can eek out a few chords.)

I'll stop...the same day I stop playing guitar...the day they put me in a box and drop me in a hole...