General Music Chat

I'm just looking for people to Check out these lyrics. What do they mean to you? What do you think that they are trying to say? How do they effect you? I really want your input.

PLEASE, if you're not trying to be helpful, don't reply. Jokes are fun and more than welcome. But please this is "supposed to be" for minds with at least SOME intellect,,, there's some people on here who are just trying to cause an argument... Use any language you want, but lets try to stay mature.

Thanks

www.MYSPACE.com/DITD1

"NUMB"
The masses are shallow so we become shallow
Forgetting who we are, so we compromise
we see them conforming and hate this demise,
yet we always become the very thing we despise
Taking the person we wanted to be,
we cast them aside for the "fake" that we see
The fake that demands only lust, hate, and spite
The outside looks good, as we decay inside

The things we dreamed when we were young and innocent have died
force feeding us their vanity, the media has lied
Crushing our self worth by pushing what we're supposed to be
They promised us perfection but they hid reality

Watching integrity go down the drain,
This thing called integrity, it's now in vain
Choosing a wardrobe that makes you look cheap
This fashion is in, but abuse you will reap
show off your figure and all of your skin
What kind of "love" do you think you'll bring in
if sex and seduction is where you place trust
you'll only end up as an object of lust

The object of affection is what we all long to be
not to gratify someone's perverted fantasy
society's solutions all end up in regret
You'll give yourself, you'll try it all and still the need's not met
what we're called to be inside, is SO MUCH better than,
Anything society would call the perfect ten
Shallow is what we become when we accept the lies
that OUTER BEAUTY is the cure to silence inner cries

When I was just an innocent child, I never dreamed of sleeping around
Giving myself up every night, was never my idea of "the good life"
what is my soul coming to, when I can't even do the things I WANT to do?
is this all that i've become, part of a society that has gone numb?
Why do I do the things THEY want me to?
I'm flashing you a smile that I know is not true
the Fake I used to be, I can now see through
Just ask yourself, why do you do the things you do?

It's pretty straightforward. It describes a common phenomenon, the same that corrupts our politicians. Play the game to get along, and what seems effective begins to matter more than what is right. The voice expresses dissatisfaction and disillusionment with the process once accepted as proper. It suggests a spiritual searching.

Being a bit of a pedant, I have trouble with:

Taking the person we wanted to be,
we cast them aside for the "fake" that we see

While it's common to use "them" as singular, it muddies the meaning a little. "Person...them" doesn't scan well.

Yeah I had trouble with that line,,,

We CAST THEM aside,

Is trying to say that we cast our TRUE self away so we can fit in with what we seem to HAVE TO BE, to be accepted.

You got some good stuff (and i don't normally listen to heavy stuff).
I have no comment on your lyrics they seem to flow; but i will say...your profile needs some re-wording. In the about section you're bordering on bashing your ex-members...it reeks of disdain. In the members section...unless you have a well known name that you can use to throw your weight around, you're coming off as someone i wouldn't bother with, and certainly not "Christian". You're asking for "hired guns" that do what they're told...like i said, you need a big name and a paycheck for anyone willing to suffer through that.
I'm not writing this hurt you man, your music is good, but what you've written is enough to make a prospective member run the other way...or laugh like hell and say "yeah, right".

Thats just my opinion.

Lyrics are pretty good, message is great. It's hard to judge the lyrics without the music though. Lyrics sometimes have a way of reading simplistic, but with the music, they may not seem so.

Checked your uploaded song out too. I like it. Music is good, vocals are good.


One bit of advice....


You say on your profile that you are doing this as a Christ centered project. In other words, it is a personal ministry.

But you want a record deal?

Why not be different? Why not make it truly Christ centered? To me it is VERY un-Christlike to sell Christian music, and call it a ministry. It is a business. The Christian Music Awards.... makes me sick to my stomach. It is a business, nothing more. It is a business targeting Christians as consumers, and claiming it is spiritual.

Bullshit.

If it was a ministry, then the "award" would go to the artist that moved the most hearts toward God. But that isn't the criteria used. Christian acts are judged on their musical ability, sound quality, record sales, or whatever else, but NOT their spirituality. There are people I have heard sing in church, that were some of the worst singers I have ever heard, and yet they moved my heart more than some of the best Christian artists out there, because they really called God, it was completely spiritual. You could feel God's love through that person. But do you think that kind of person would ever get an "award" from a Christian Music Awards type organization? Never in a million years.

If the real purpose of a Christian Artist's music is to reach people for Jesus, they wouldn't be selling Jesus' message. Which in effect, is what they are doing.

Christ didn't do that. Maybe He was wrong? Maybe He should have auctioned off the Sermon On The Mount? Surely that would have been worth alot more money than the $15.00 charged by "Christian" artists whose music is usually based on biblical excerpts, like the Sermon On The Mount.

I think we could have gotten an entire box-set of Jesus' words, and charged a nice amount for them. Maybe even throw in a crown of thorns with some fake blood as part of the package and call it a special edition. Christ Jesus obviously was just not as adept at marketing, as christian leaders are today.

If your music is a ministry, offer it to the lost for free, and allow fellow believers who support your ministry to donate funds to ensure it continues to be produced and perhaps provide for your own sustenance.

Then you separate completely, a potential conflict or evil, from the good you are trying to accomplish.

I attended a Southern Baptist convention once, and I began tearing up, when I heard all the joy expressed, because a certain church now had the most delegates to the convention. Why were they allowed the most delegates? Because they had brought the most money in to the convention. Before that, I had not known what the criteria was. It made me angry, it made me tear up, because I realized right then and there, what criteria counted in that convention. Money.

Money. Not souls.

I thought to myself, what if some poor black church in Harlem had brought twice as many souls to the Lord? Shouldn't they be allowed the bigger say, the most delegates, to that convention? But they wouldn't be allowed it, because it was about money first, not souls.

I never accepted another leadership position again after that.

We've come a long way in a disturbingly wrong direction, since Christ sent out His desciples and told them not to bring anything with them but the clothes on their backs, and to rely on God and the kindness of those they preached to, for sustenance, to where these days, a witnessing trip can be called off because the air-conditioning on the church bus isn't working and needs to be fixed first.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Christ is upset at who won the Christian Music Awards, because... "That other band's song had a much more complex guitar solo in it!" Do you really, in your heart of hearts, believe that He is pleased that millions of dollars is spent on lavish venues and decorations, so that his alleged followers can glorify themselves and give each other "awards" for their musical prowess, using His name, and His message as their justification?

Get close to the real Christ, and you will begin to know His heart. And you will feel, that the burden of His heart is for the lost and suffering, and that he would rather resources collected in His name, go to those efforts, and not to a Christian artist having one more shiny inscribed trophy sitting on his fireplace mantle.

WOW! That's interesting.

I could care less about the money in light of eternity. The LOVE of money is evil, true, but the TOOL that money is can be used greatly. Joseph who bought Jesus tomb was rich.

Seriously, I posted my lyrics up here so people could see and be challenged and EVENTUALLY lead to the CHRIST ONLY!!!!

That's my goal. MY EYE is on the REACH of the record company!! THE REACH of the TV VIDEO OR RADIO PLAY... The more people hear or see, the better the chances, odds, statistics, whatever, that they will get to the heart of the message.

There's no were in the bible where God says that a Christian who has money is bad, it even says that HE WILL FILL OUR HOUSE with good things... WHO CARES IS RIGHT, but it's not wrong. I could care less. I love my life and I wanna reach people with LIFE CHANGING TRUTH!!!

I actually don't like the DOVE awards either. BUT the bible says to be ALL THINGS to all man,,, Paul said that because HE COULD CARE LESS ABOUT IMAGE, ROLE, or IDENTITY, said that because HE WOULD DO ANYTHING AND RIDE ANYTHING or USE anything to reach people in anyway... IF the littlest thing can be used, then USE IT!!!

The Bible also says, "he who does not keep a tight reign on his tounge, his religion is USELESS" So please keep that in mind. NOT ME, it's the WORD.

My lyrics show one thing,,, they are all about biblical truth breaking out into the REAL WORLD.

In my eyes the record company is the BIGEST way to reach out, but I'll gladdly go whereevery God calls me, even if it's to play for 1 person who would BE REACHED by the Music that God has given me.

Thanks for the input.
www.myspace.com/DITD1

FRANNY!!!

Hey I changed it up,,, please let me know what you think I'm GRATEFUL FOR YOUR INPUT!!! I put all that up after a DEEP CUT from the old band members, real evil they did me! COLD I'm still hurt but MAN I WAS APARENTLY BITTER!!!

Thanks
Hope to hear from you soon.

TONY PARMA
www.MYSPACe.com/DITD1

Craig, your spiritual points are well taken. I do have to take very slight issue with you, though.

Money measures value. It is an imperfect yardstick, certainly, but in a free market it is better than any other means of measurement devised by man. What a guy is willing to shell out his bucks for is of value to him, and what he is not willing to spend on isn't. Millions of people making such decisions is a rather comprehensive amalgam of opinion.

Of course, markets aren't entirely free. They are regulated by government. They are manipulated by corporations and advertisers. Certain players are granted government subsidies, giving them preference over competitors. Wealthy and well-connected individuals' opinions tend to count more than poor people's opinions.

It's said that man will serve either Mammon or God. But is a Christian in business really dedicated to Mammon merely by participating in a market? Maybe -- if he's caught up in the money game. But maybe he's merely using the complex computing system of economics to get wider exposure to an opinion he considers worthwhile, and is confident that the great economic computer will agree.

A lot of people value junk, but in the market maybe they ought to have other choices besides junk.

WELL SAID!!!

Solomon was never wicked because of wealth, he did great things with his wealth,, it was his seeking out side of GOD with many women and their gods.

Money's GONE in the next life,,, but NOT what we did with it! MONEY IS A TOOL, if used in the right hands, IT CAN BE USED GRATELY FOR ETERNITY!!!

ok, I'm done.

www.myspace.com/DITD1

Hey Tony, man thats cool. I could read that bitterness in those words.
It's best to draw someone in by stating what you want, and direction you're headed by phrasing it in a searching/asking kinda way, instead of a cut and dried "this is how it is period".
I do wish you the best on your journey, and success in your ministry.

Now for what Craig wrote, i see your point and it's valid. Unfortunately in todays society...doing it for free would relegate someone to the life of a street musician (traveling minstrel); thats a risk that is dangerous in more ways than one nowadays.
Does it go against the grain from a Christian standpoint to make personal profit by spreading the word? not necessarily; the reward comes from just touching "that one person" through your music. I play Contemporary Christian myself, just the usual covers...but watching someone actually being led to Praise or outright to the Lord through music is a reward and spiritual feeling that goes far beyond the feeling you get from people just "getting into your music"; so it seems a win-win situation for a Christian artist.
Does any of the above make sense?

Read my response again guys. Nowhere did I say that having wealth in itself is wrong. It is a slight distinction, but to me, a very important one. Money represents value, for the purposes of buying and selling. Without money, we would be using the historic system of bartering for goods. But the culture of christian music today is a business based on finances. Record companies could care less what spiritual value an artist's music has, as long as it is profitable. Money tends to demean the spiritual value. Imagine for example, that you are under contract to a record company, and God moved your heart, that your next album should be accopello. God himself has spoken this to your heart, and He has an absolutely spiritual purpose in it. But the record company knows, based on sales analysis, that such a record won't sell. You will be forced, in such a situation, to accept the record company's decision, and not God's, because you are under contract to them.

You are fighting this idea, I suspect, because you want all the trimmings that secular music success has to offer, but in a "spiritual" package. I could be wrong, but what else are you looking for? Distribution? Freely distributing your music across the internet, would put your music in far more hands than the limited distribution a record company offers. So, it's not distribution. Advertising dollars? Even today, word of mouth is the best advertising that exists. The best ad campaign there is, is not as persuausive as a friend or relative telling us "That was the best movie I have ever seen, you gotta check it out!"

Remember the movie "Ghost" with Demi Moore? Look at the promo pics from when the movie first came out. They look cheap and cheesey. They look that way because they were cheap, relatively speaking. The producers put very little into that movie, by way of ad revenues. It was not expected to do very well. But word of mouth, made it a blockbuster. So, you don't really need their marketing campaigns either. If what you produce is good, people will want it, they will talk about it, and they will share it.

I realize what I am saying is not going to be popular. That is because christians have become quite comfortable with their spiritualized version of everything secular life has to offer. But not being popular, does not make me wrong. Jesus' message of love over law was not very popular either. An entire culture had developed over worshipping the law. They were not so ready to give that up, just because a simple man from Nazareth spoke against it. In fact, they loved the culture they had developed so much, they killed him to preserve it.

I find, that modern Christianity has become the Judaism of Jesus' day. I think if Jesus' were to have come in our day instead, it is Christian leaders who would do the very same thing to Him, that the Jewish leaders of his day did. Prosperity gospel, political power, position and prestige, it looks every bit the same today, only coming from Christian leaders, as it did in Jesus' day. It was, after all, God's people, that rejected the God who came to them and told them they were missing the mark. The Christianity of today is missing that very same mark. They have strayed from the truth, and built an entire culture around their misinterpretation, just as the Jewish leaders of Jesus' day did.

Giving an award for what is ultimately the Gospel message? Do you think that John or Peter should have given Jesus a trophy when He came down from having given the Sermon On The Mount? Seriously, picture that in your heads. Them handing Jesus a trophy, as a measure of that sermon's value. Do you think Jesus was upset at not getting a trophy? Do you think he said to himself "Damn, if I give a better sermon next year, maybe they'll give me a trophy!"

Christian culture today, is not all that indistiguishable from secular culture in many respects. It just has the name Jesus plastered all over it. Does money, position or political power really embody Jesus' heart?

I don't think so.

I'm not going to change your views on this. You have an entire culture of millions supporting you. All I have, is my relationship to God, and my sense of Jesus' heart. But that closeness I feel to Him, tells me there is something very wrong in Camelot.

One billion people, nearly a quarter of the world's population profess to be Christian. One billion people armed with God's love. You would think the world would be a very different place than it is. Wouldn't you?

Craig said:

You are fighting this idea, I suspect, because you want all the trimmings that secular music success has to offer, but in a "spiritual" package.

Speaking for myself, your suspicion would be inaccurate, since I do not practice musical evangelism. There is no vested self-interest in my position in that regard.

The usual record contract can be much as you describe. Some artists have enough clout to negotiate better terms. It's a worthwhile caveat you bring up: Read it before signing! Have an attorney read it, and explain it to you.

I suppose if a Christian has the wherewithal, your strategy of self-promotion can work and the artist can be smugly untainted by the world of commercialism. Not every musician is in that position, Christian or not.

I find, that modern Christianity has become the Judaism of Jesus' day.

There's a lot of truth to that. There is a tendency toward pharisaical outward observance -- the same mentality expressed in the song that starts this thread. It's rather axiomatic that success begets complaisance, and the church is no exception.

Well, the thread has certainly turned into a intense dialog..
So, I'll join in, by just saying that I just about wretch when I tune into our local 'Christian' music station.

I can't handle it , it's so 'popish'..
All the nuances & habits of pop radio...just with God talk.
Nothing new..and lyrics that ..well enough I'm borderline sinning here..

Some of you guys should read this.
They rule!

As far as the lyrics that started this thread, something inside me wishes that the writer would use fewer words to get his point across..and maybe tell the same story more..poetically..
Less of the "them vs. us" mode of writing.
I dunno: can't put my thoughts in proper wording...
Rich

That's progressive music for yu!
Yeah it's long because the song takes a FEW different directions.

And as far as singing the SAME song over and over again,,, I believe that, that is part of the problem that Got us here.

This song doesn't give a "3 part Gospel message" that's not it's intention.

And as for "us vs. them"
The first verse is ALLL WE, US, and OUR.
we become,, Forgetting who we are, so we compromise
we see, yet we,,, we despise,,,the person we wanted,,,we cast,,,"fake" that we see,,, , as we decay
The things we dreamed, when we were,,,feeding us their vanity, the media has lied.,,,our self worth by pushing what we're,,,
They (OBVIOUSLY the media) promised us perfection but they hid,,,

But I can see what you might mean in the second verse.. But being a song, it's supposed to take you through something.
Then I move on to point out to those who are possibley numb so that their eye's might be opened to how they are victims of this NUMB society.

that makes you look cheap,,,abuse you will reap,,,
show off your figure and all of your skin
What kind of "love" do you think you'll bring in
if sex and seduction is where you place trust
you'll only end up as an object of lust


AAaaaand back to WE US, and,,, you
what we,,,not to gratify someone's,,,

society's solutions all end up in regret You'll give yourself,
you'll try it all and still the need's not met
(OBVIOUSLY explaining SOCIETY'S solution as in the second verse)

what we're ,,,Shallow is what we ,,, when we accept,,,

AND NOW the focus is ENTIRELY about my findings, NONE of which are pointing at anyone till the last question to the audience.
When I,,, I never dreamed of,,, Giving myself up,,,,
never my idea of "the good life"
what is my soul,,, when I can't,, things I WANT,,,

(INTENTION AND PURPOSE OF THE SONG IS THE NEXT CHALLENGE TO THE AUDIENCE)
IS THIS ALL THAT i've become,,, Part of a SOCIETY that has gone numb?
Why do I do the things THEY want me to? (SOCIETY)

I'm (as in mysmile) flashing you a smile,,, I know is not true
the Fake I used to be, I can now see through
(last challenge)
Just ask yourself, why do you do the things you do?

If I were to ask you, "why do you do the things you do?"
You'd probably say, "what things? what do you mean?" The point is that the NUMB society does things that make no sense when considering the damage to the soul and heart! If this society would ask, why do you do the things you do? to themselves, we might have a great awakening and seeking of Christ, because they JUST MIGHT find that they are searching for something to fill the whole inside.

(remember, the whole song is to get to the audience and challenge them, and the whole purpose of Jesus was to DESTROY the devils work, and that takes telling the truth and exposing lies through the LOGIC of His Integrity.

I ask about four questions with NO answers in the song. It's only meant to challenge the norm.

Thanks for the Criticism.

As for CRAIG
7Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its grapes? Who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk? 8Do I say this merely from a human point of view? Doesn't the Law say the same thing? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned? 10Surely he says this for us, doesn't he? YES, THIS WAS WRITTEN FOR US, because when the plowman plows and the thresher threshes, they ought to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. 11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a MATERIAL HARVEST from you? 12If others have this right of support from you, shouldn't we have it all the more?


1 Timothy 5:18 17The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double HONOR, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages." 19Do not entertain an accusation against an elder UNLESS it is brought by two or three witnesses.

Bro, you're right about the possibilities of corruption, but the scripture tells us basically, unless there's proof, don't judge; I.E. entertain an accusation against someone.

We let the scripture be our final word. Not our own observations outside of the word.

Tony Parma
www.myspace.com/DITD1

If you really want to serve Jesus, start by reading the scriptures with an eye toward really feeling his heart. Don't just read "words", get into the words. Dissect them. Pray over them. Meditate on them. Read them again, and seek his heart through them. Don't filter your heart through church forefather's words. Alot of early church interpretation has become almost the "official" MEANING of those scriptures. It is not neccessarily so. God has been moving mankind as a whole, to a better and deeper understanding of his heart. Just as, in Christian thinking, the Jewish leaders of Jesus' day, were misinterpreting the Old Testament, so too, have some early Christian church leaders misinterpreted Jesus' meaning and the New Testament. It has been 2000 years now, that we have had Jesus words. Isn't it possible that there may be a deeper understanding, after all that time, than even the early church fathers had? And yet, their interpretations are still held up as the end-all be-all. Their work was important, and their understanding perhaps clearer than previous generations, but it has been almost a hudred generations since some of those interpretations. Maybe it is time for a richer and fuller understanding of Jesus' heart?