General Music Chat

I've done that, Klugmo.

I only do the shows that I think will turn out for the best. Last night's crap was a surprise.

I don't do nuffin for free anymore, or for less than my rate.

And I'm trying to get a band together that CAN get out of this horrible atmosphere, & go to Europe or Asia to play for appreciative audiences.

Yeah I hear you guys. 100$ or piss off.

Having said that, I do play for free at times.
But that's the jam/jam band thing, isn't it? I know others doing it as well hoping to get a new venue..

I mean, sometimes I just don't have a choice..
And I keep it to a minimum..

Well maybe not a union BUT how about you are legally hired and must be paid minimum wage from the moment you start loading equipment to the moment you unload equipment, as in most gigs take a total of eight hours to WORK. What is minimum wage? $6.00 an hour? Each band member MUST receive a minimum of $48. Instead of too many bands playing for free driving the pay down, then we'd probably have the better bars start paying bands MORE, thus driving the pay UP. There's got to be a way to get us A FAIR WAGE. At present we're worse than slave labor because we have acquired skills from countless hours of practice and also we have accumulated hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of equipment. IT IS A GIANT INSULT PLAYING FOR FREE OR LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. I'd rather be a damn Walmart greeter than play for free...

Bob, I think if the majority of musicians held their ground like you, Philby, and JW, then the clubs would have no choice than to negotiate. Problem is, there's too many musicians who don't even care to know anything about the business side of things. There's too many grown ups with toddler-like mentality running around.

I do care about the business side, but I have no problem playing our original music free, for anyone who will listen.

My goal is to make a hit song, because having recognition is the only way to gain any real money or respect. Once a musician achieves this, he plays the gravy venues with amazing sound and lights in front of groovy people who appreciate live music.

Well maybe not a union BUT how about you are legally hired and must be paid minimum wage from the moment you start loading equipment to the moment you unload equipment, as in most gigs take a total of eight hours to WORK. What is minimum wage? $6.00 an hour? Each band member MUST receive a minimum of $48. Instead of too many bands playing for free driving the pay down, then we'd probably have the better bars start paying bands MORE, thus driving the pay UP. There's got to be a way to get us A FAIR WAGE. At present we're worse than slave labor because we have acquired skills from countless hours of practice and also we have accumulated hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of equipment. IT IS A GIANT INSULT PLAYING FOR FREE OR LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. I'd rather be a damn Walmart greeter than play for free...

Sometimes I do feel like a walmart greeter...and plenty pissy.

That's one of the reasons I won't drink before I play, for fear I will really get the old mouth in gear and say something I might be reminded of later.

-gulp-

A bad situation is a bad situation, but some good booze will loosen your tongue quicker than a hobo chasing a 50$ dollar bill in the wind.

I do care about the business side, but I have no problem playing our original music free, for anyone who will listen.

My goal is to make a hit song, because having recognition is the only way to gain any real money or respect. Once a musician achieves this, he plays the gravy venues with amazing sound and lights in front of groovy people who appreciate live music.

Take a hint - if you're willing to give your music away for free, then you have established its worth to us all.

The pipe dream of "exposure" helping bands to make it has ruined this biz more than karaoke. You want exposure? Get to be great at your craft & quit looking for that "magical moment" when someone who matters hears you by accident & thinks you're the bomb. That's a bullshit fantasy for 12 year olds, man. Once you're truly great at your craft, through hard work, nothing more or less, then you'll have something of worth that you can sell. It makes me sick to look at all the wannabes out there who think they're oh so original & cutting edge that they can put in six frikken months & make it big, if enough ppl hear thier tripe for free.

Grow the hell up. You "care about the business side?" You don't even acknowledge that there IS a business side, if you give your sh*t away for free. You have erased the entire concept of "business" from the equation.

It's ppl like you what cause unrest. Don't give anything away. You're just ruining things for everyone else, & contributing to he devolution &/or destruction of the entire music world.

A bad situation is a bad situation, but some good booze will loosen your tongue quicker than a hobo chasing a 50$ dollar bill in the wind.

ROFLMFAO!!! That is one HELL of an analogy Scott!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!

Minimum wage is $9.25 per hour, isn't it?

Sorry guys.
Were a mission band.
It would be morally dishonest for us to demand or even expect payment.
But then, no one is making a profit off most of our "venues".
So perhaps it is a totally different issue.

If anyone really thinks they are going to get rich playing music, the best advice I can give you is "GUESS AGAIN, GENIUS".

Do you have a day job?

Then you aren't supporting yourself via your music.

Quit lying to yourself.

It's ok to have hope, but don't be a fing bitch about it..

I like the way Sans and his group think about it.

If i wanna play for free because it's fun and I love it, no amount of bitching will change my mind.

You do what you do and I'll do what I do and neither of us will lose any sleep at all.

I do care about the business side, but I have no problem playing our original music free, for anyone who will listen.

My goal is to make a hit song, because having recognition is the only way to gain any real money or respect. Once a musician achieves this, he plays the gravy venues with amazing sound and lights in front of groovy people who appreciate live music.

Take a hint - if you're willing to give your music away for free, then you have established its worth to us all.

The pipe dream of "exposure" helping bands to make it has ruined this biz more than karaoke. You want exposure? Get to be great at your craft & quit looking for that "magical moment" when someone who matters hears you by accident & thinks you're the bomb. That's a bullshit fantasy for 12 year olds, man. Once you're truly great at your craft, through hard work, nothing more or less, then you'll have something of worth that you can sell. It makes me sick to look at all the wannabes out there who think they're oh so original & cutting edge that they can put in six frikken months & make it big, if enough ppl hear thier tripe for free.

Grow the hell up. You "care about the business side?" You don't even acknowledge that there IS a business side, if you give your sh*t away for free. You have erased the entire concept of "business" from the equation.

It's ppl like you what cause unrest. Don't give anything away. You're just ruining things for everyone else, & contributing to he devolution &/or destruction of the entire music world.

Did you really just say this to me?

Get to be good at my craft?


I do not have any problem getting paid a couple hundred bucks a night playing in someones band here in Cleveland. I have a few cover bands to choose from, but I been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.....

I play in 4 bands but the one that has my heart and soul is an original band that has some amazing songs. I believe we have a legitimate shot at a hit song. Is it worthless because we will play for free?

Also, even when we play for free, we make money off merch.

If I was going to charge anything, I would want the door......

I am not trying to say I am better or worse than you but I definitely have a more respectful and professional attitude. I also likely practice and learn my instrument ALOT more hours a day than you, so exactely what qualifies you to hurl these insults at me?

You see, you are on here crying "no one will pay me sh*t to play"

What does that tell you?

Why are you so bitter? Cuz nobody likes your sh*t?

I played a show at The Beachland Ballroom last summer for free. However, Devo was sitting right there watching us play. We played a cover of Devo's Gut Feeling and afterwards Bob Devo walked up and shook my hand, called me by my name, even though I had not told him it yet, and he told me he really enjoyed the way I played it. It was a "magical moment". You are right that was a 12 year olds "pipe dream", and I was the 12 year old once, wishing I could meet Devo. (Well actually Led Zeppelin, but hey Devo is cool).

Sorry for "ruining" things for ya there Philby.

I plan to do more damage tommorrow.......wish me luck!

Hey, you might be a pro, but talking about playing for free pisses me off. I do wish you luck in any of your PROFESSIONAL pursuits.

Look, bub - if you give it away for free, that's what it's worth. You set the price, you set the value. Simple as that. So, yeah, if you give it away, your 'hit song' has no value. You, as an artist, are impossible to take seriously when you do that.

The more musicians go out for free, the fewer paying gigs the rest of us can get, & the longer we'll all hafta wait for our pay to come up to the standards of the rest of the world's businesses. I find such actions impossible to respect.

A musician devalues music every time he does it. If he can't see that, he's a true moron who's contributing to the downfall of the art. I find that impossible to respect.

I've been working stages for over 35 years. I've gone from being paid as little as $25 to well over a thousand for a single solo gig. The average pay for a solo has stayed the same for 30 years, for the most part, though in some places it has even dropped. The same is true for band wages. I do what little I can to help us all to make our jobs better-paying, respectable pursuits.

That's what makes me so bitter. That modern pseudo-hippie view that 'everything should be free.' All you do is feed the coffers of "the man" with that stupidity, & you're too blind to see it. I find that impossible to respect.

In my career, I've played small shows & big shows, done some radio & tv with original material, too, at the local level, & opened for some pretty big-name acts. I've seen the value of music drop due to many factors, but when I see musicians helping to devalue my product, I get offended. They are the equivalent of the scab crossing the picket line to me, by offering music for free. I find that impossible to respect.

We musicians should be doing everything in our power to increase our collective incomes, to make things better for ourselves. By working in ways that run contrary to increasing the value of music, the scabby musician is no better than the karaoke & DJ's stealing our gigs, no better than the bar owner that stiffs the band, no better than any of the other restrictions & hurdles that we have to face as musicians. I find that impossible to respect.

Are you a pro? You talk like you're a pro. I don't know you, & it seems we've hit it off on the wrong foot. If indeed you turn out to be that pro, then you'll find that I'm most respectful of both you & your art.

And yeah, I realize that I sound like a jerkwad, sorta like Craig with his wagging shamey fingers whenever this subject comes up, & I'm sorry about that. But this just looks like musos hurting musos for self glorification, to me, & that pisses me off a whole lot. I find it impossible to respect.