General Music Chat

I guess if you break one law it is ok to break every other law.

I smell ANARCHY.

That ain't anarchy, it's B.O. Take a frickin shower Glenny

haley, I'm sorry. I honestly was not trying to say you are a skinhead... just that I feel afraid of extremists of either type and that either type of extremist is a small part of the population.

I haven't intentionally insulted anyone, despite being called a bleeding heart, being told my head is in the sand -I focus on the facts and respond to them only. I know that once the insults fly no one listens anymore, and I care enough to let you try to convince me and to hopefully convince you a little in the process and we'll meet in the middle.

I admit I'm wrong all the time... when I'm wrong. What we are arguing here can't be proven one way or the other today. If it could there would be no reason to argue. If tomorrow they close the border and kick all the illegals out and the economy does an about face because of it... I will admit I'm wrong happily. You could very well be right. In fact, we all must be somewhat right to some degree or another. I just think folks are scapegoating immigration as the cause for this countries demise and while it may in fact be A cause... I don't think it is the most significant cause.

shredd6 as usual you have nothing to say with any substance. Just a cheerleader. I can disagree with you completely and even be proven wrong by you and hold nothing against you, honestly.

I just want to point out that philby makes probably the best argument against immigration... because he does so w/o emotion, w/o name calling. Simply providing facts.
your central point as I see it: lost labor opportunity for kids.
it is a valid point. maybe kids don't have the same character because of this dynamic.
not to racially generalize... but yes... mexican carpentry (not latino carpentry) is typically a study of it's own. very creative!

capitolism is based off of finding cheap labor to exploit, delivering the product at the lowest price, and making the most profit. You can't support the system, call yourself a true american, and then say... but in this case it shouldn't apply. We all want to save the money... I could make the wrong choice as easily as anyone else... I do buy from walmart... but that doesn't change the write or wrong of it if we are honest with ourselves.

That was a good one Jimminy I bet you thought that up all by yourself. Since you are so good with those big college words like anarchy..
Maybe we should see if your primary education was as good. Let's try the word,
supercalifragalisticxpaladocious. Got you Huh.
















You thought I was going to say ASS. don't be ridiculous. why waste a perfectly good word.

Mikev, I think there's much to be said about this new push for Spanish-speaking construction workers, too. It's hardly fair for an American builder to make those demands of his American work force. Most of the construction guys I know aren't multi-lingual.

Our competition may be cheaper & quicker, but I've been dealing with thier work for awhile, now, & it's horrendous. The builders that hire them exclusively end up with bad reps, but that doesn't seem to matter when they have all that property bought, ready to build on. They build thier crap, sell it, & move on & buy more property, while the home owners are left with lots of things needing attention, due to the sloppy workmanship.

Dan Ryan, my favorite local bldr, has some funny guarantees, for example. You'd think that a roof would be warranted for as long as the shingles, but that isn't the case. The roof on that new house is guaranteed for 10 years, NOT the 25 the shingles call for. Siding? That's only for 1 year! I don't have any idea how these rip-off outfits get away with so much, but they do it every day.

And meanwhile, the men & women who have done the work for decades, for the most part in exemplary fashion, are now out in the cold, while the imported workers get the work & do it poorly, while that difference in cost doesn't get passed on to the consumer. The builder gets more $ at the cost of the buyer, time & again.

Our standards are dropping, as we let these things continue, & as we allow these ppl to work without proper checks on them. Language on a work site MUST be uniform, if you are to expect a well-built, safe dwelling.

It's one thing to have the illegals working in the fields, but quite another to have them building ppl's homes! There is no check when they do questionable stuff, & it's too easy to have important things ignored. Things can look good for months or even years & then fall apart unexpectedly. I've seen outright dangerous situations caused by the unknowledgeable or negligent workers on construction sites.

Would you want them working in a pharmacy or a power plant, not knowing English? The dangers are about equal, in my estimation, to allowing them to work on bldg sites, to life & limb.

Sorry, but I'm against illegals in ANY job in the states, & I'm against ANYONE working in sensitive jobs who don't understand our standard language. This crap just doesn't make sense, & I don't care how touchie-feelie ppl are about it all. When ppl's lives, livelihoods, & life's savings are at stake, things must be done certain ways.

Your argument about the cost of those products is basically moot, as well, imho.

Look, if you want Americans to work, you have to be willing to PAY for that work. "Buy American," was a very popular slogan for awhile, but it means less than nothing, if the American product is made by illegals at the cost of American jobs.

Screw Nike! If they want to move to Mexico to make thier product, then they should pay through the nose for the priveledge of selling it here.

I'm so sick of hearing about the "global economy." The global economy is totally useless to the American worker, if he cannot work! It's time we started taking care of our own, once again, instead of taking care of outrageous mega-corporate profits. It's gonna get to the point that the only jobs available for Americans will be in retail ot fast food or highly techincal jobs, if we continue in this trend. It's time we put Americans back to work making quality American products. If they cost a bit more, well, we'll just have to make them worth the difference, won't we? Isn't that what we had to do in the past?

We SHOULD be paying more for everything. Sorry, but if we don't, we won't be working.

There you go again Phil. Bringing up things that make good sense. Bringing up examples of truth. Bringing up points that when expanded lead to some amazing clarity.
If anyone feels that strongly about a company,DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCTS.
I guess nobody gets the simple fact that it easier to pay a $20 dollar tariff on a pair of shoes than it is to pay $40 dollars in taxes on the same pair of shoes made in the USA. I may be stretching this example a bit but Govt waste and corruption has lead to higher taxes and that is why so many jobs and companies are being lost to business friendly countries.

More often, Glen, American jobs are sent overseas so that a higher profit can be made with cheaper labor, where the workers cannot enjoy the safe-guards that Americans do on the job. Costs never seem to go down when those jobs are sent off to the third world, though the tarriffs haven't been raised in awhile.

The global economy is only good for the third world, as far as I can tell, & is designed to make us ALL live in those straits, wihle the highest profits go to the ones who own the co's. It seems that the mega-corps want our living conditions to rival the 3rd world's, while they rake in massive profits, & we must scramble to find that retail job.

Taxes may be a huge problem for the smaller American co, but we're seeing that they make little to no difference to the mega-corp's.

Phil, the reason I've kinda been on the sidelines in this thread is I've already explained this to Mike before. But he doesn't understand. I was actually forced to train Illegals before, then was let go due to how much I made vs. how much the Co. was getting away with paying them. For a much less quality job. Wasn't too long before the Co. shut down due to a shoddy product however. Those workers couldn't hang, it was over their heads. Although I was training them to do certain things, they decided to have their own "quickie, more productive" ideas (which is usually the case when using illegal work-forces), and got burned. That's not always the case. Some companies don't go under as a result, and Americans are kicked to the curb for demanding fair wages.

But Mike will tell you that it's YOUR fault, not the fault of the illegal workers. That you should have just known how to do your job better because, obviously, you weren't worth much if you're being traded in for cheaper labor. And he will also say that this is not detrimental to our economy at all.

I've already been through this conversation. I'm waiting to see if he'll hold the same stance with you.

first off, just wanna point out how silly it is that SOME PEOPLE blatantly laugh it up about how they 'smoke pot' and then have the nerve to talk about how all these "illegals" are criminals. Unbelievably hipocritical to talk about drug smuggling criminals as a problem while you take another hit from the bong.

IMHO if you come to my country illegally and you go to school and become a surgical nurse (for instance) in my mind you have more of a right to be here than half the population.

that said... my entire point is that if you know someone hires illegals... boycot them. if you know a product directly contributes to folks sending work out of america -boycot them. buy american... or don't complain to me how you can't find a job.

funny how all these poor construction companies can't possibly validate their employees as legal but then sheriff joe can round up and determine citizenship for a hundred border hoppers in the space of an hour.
walmart hasn't been sighted for hiring illegals ... you know why? everify.

again, landmines and automated 50cal turrets on the border... if you make it here illegally and we catch you you loose any hope of ever getting here legally... if you come here legally you server in the military for 1 year... you hire an illegal you lose your biz license unless you've used e-verify. then, open up the border to more hardworking immigrants.

The simple fact that 1/3 of the violent criminals we pay to maintain incarcerated and cycle continuously through the justice system at great expense are illegal aliens. Countless lawyers get paid billions of dollars from the tax roll annually to be pubic defenders for people whom are not even citizens and had no right to be here in the first place.
It does not matter how many peaches the migrant worker picks for next to nothing. They can never recoup the expense their illegal entry into this county has forced upon the < 60 percent of American citizens whom actually pay taxes to start with.

Just reducing our prison population by 1/3 would be an economic boom unmatched by anything else this country has ever experienced.

Mr. Haley makes a valid point.
The jobs I did in my youth are now being done by illegals whose children I feed and educate in the public schools with my property taxes while their wives have more children in our hospital with no intent to pay a dime towards the bill.
The taxpayer is the big loser in this scenario.
I'd gladly pay more money for peaches to have our now bankrupt and closed local hospital afford to be back in business again.

I am not the Great Barrier Reef.
It's not my job to provide life support for 100 varieties of sponges ... illegal or otherwise.

that said... my entire point is that if you know someone hires illegals... boycot them. if you know a product directly contributes to folks sending work out of america -boycot them. buy american... or don't complain to me how you can't find a job.

If that's your stance, you better never buy a new house then. Ever.

New American houses are mostly Mexican built. Even to this day when I show up on the job sites, I'm usually the only worker there who isn't Mexican. Whether they're legal or not, I can't tell. I have no way of communicating with most of them.

There's no such thing as an American built production home in your state.

Mikev ,we are not talking about smoking pot. I love it when people turn the direction of a discussion in a completley different direction.

Jimminy danger. where are you? I need some one to give me a good laugh today.

As far as pot, I don't use it , I believe it has value for people with cancer.
This is one stupid thing that has become overblown. The reason is tax, it is very difficult to tax a plant that grows so easily.

The only reason why I bring this up is because some laws need to be changed, and some laws need to be enforced.

HEY Jimminy , Where the flock are are you? I need a Good Laugh.
C'mon show us how smart you are