General Music Chat

This is the first time I heard a lot of this stuff. If these figures are accurate, we are in bigger financial trouble than I thought we were. I emailed Sam after the show and asked if he would post these figures.

http://samclovis.com/index.php/issues/national-security


Sam Clovis Immigration by the Numbers


May 05 |23:58 PM

I offered some numbers related to immigration during the May 4 show. Here are the important numbers associated with illegal immigration into the United States:

* Settling on the numbers of illegal immigrants in the United States is very difficult. Based on my research, I think there are some 14 million individuals in this country illegally. Also, there 3.8 million children born to these individuals. Of the 3.8 million children, 75% are US citizens, having been born in this country.
* As much as 76% of the illegal immigrants live in just 9 states. Those states are:
o CA, 23%, 3.2 million
o TX, 13%, 1.8 million
o FL, 10%, 1.4 million
o NY, 10%, 1.4 million
o NJ, 5%, at least 700K
o AZ, 5%, at least 700K
o GA, 4%, at least 550K
o NC, 3%, at least 400K
o VA, 3%, at least 400K
* Iowa has about 70K, NE about 45K and SD about 5K
* In America, there are 5.3 million illegal immigrant households
* Educational attainment
o 47% of illegal immigrants have less than a high school diploma (8% for natives)
o 33% live in poverty (10% for natives)
o 50% have no health insurance
o Illegals comprise 6.5% of the labor force, with 48% of the illegals working in blue or gray collar jobs
* 94% of illegal immigrants live in large urban areas as opposed to just 80% of the native population
* Cost of illegal immigration
o Most of the costs associated with illegal immigration go into three areas--public education, safety and health
o The mean income of illegal immigrant households is $30K, median about $36K. Native household mean income well above $50K
o Benefits received versus taxes paid
+ In Iowa, illegal immigrant households receive $17,400 more in benefits than they pay in taxes
+ Across the nation, the average is $21,000 per illegal immigrant household
o The cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers in Iowa is $365 million a year
o The cost in NE is around $277 million
o The cost in SD is around $31 million
o In CA, the cost is around $20 billion a year
* Employment
o There are 1.1 million legal immigrants allowed in the country each year, nearly all of which can enter the workforce.
o There are 500K illegal immigrants entering the country every year, for a total of 1.6 million new workers.
o These numbers then require the economy to generate at least 125K new jobs each month, just to accommodate the new immigrant workforce
o Thus, the economy, when all labor entrants are included, must produce at least 150K jobs a month. To move the unemployment numbers, the economy must produce an additional 150K for each .1% of unemployment
o The difficulty is that nearly all of the immigrants that come into the country lack work skills, language skills and the education to find suitable employment in a service driven economy

However, with all this in mind, I'm sure they are only taking the blue and gray collar jobs that lazy American workers turn down.

I am 51 years old when I was a teenager jobs were plentiful I mean I literally could get 5 jobs in a day and choose between them. Houston was booming then in the late 60's and early 70's. These so called jobs that lazy americans don't want I was damn glad to have back then, that is who did those jobs high school teenagers. Now days guy's my age bitch about how lazy teenagers are today. I have 3 teens at home 14, 16, 17 and none of them can find a job. They want one but guess who is doing those jobs? How can we say our children are lazy when they want jobs but can't get them. I was working making $2.00 an hour in 1971 minimum wage then was $1.60 an hour. I was installing cabinets for a large cab. manufacturer. I was 13 years old and making above min. wage these kids can't find that now. I am all for legal immigration but I am completely against a bunch of law breakers that dis our country and hypocritically call me a rascist. We have a saying for that down here in Texas we call them RACE BAITERS because that is exactly what they are. A bunch of foriegners who want to tell us how to run our country and are to chicken sh*t to fight for there own country and change it and make the sacrifices necessary to make it a better place to live like our fore fathers did. As far as I am concerned Phillipie Calderone is the biggest rascist hyocrite on the face of this planet and he just plain SUCKS!

The corruption in the Mexican gov't is likely even worse than that in our own, for sure, & it definitely makes things tougher on the populace. I can see why they would want to leave for a friendlier & more profitable environment.

My 1st job, at age 12 (yes, I said twelve!), was in the tobacco fields in the Annapolis area of MD. It was tough, character-building work, & I'm glad I had that opportunity. When my son turned 12, he couldn't get work mowing lawns, cuzza the insurance scares we live with, these days. I worked for 4 years in the fields. My 1st year, I made $1 an hour, which was the minimum wage in '67. When I was 16, I was the "barn boss," making an incredible $5 an hour! I worked with some good-hearted ppl, too, black & white. Something about farm work seems to bring ppl together, somehow, cuz that's the only way that things can get done on a farm- by working together.

Moving here was a real culture shock. There was an established pattern of hiring itinerant workers who only came through when the apples were ready to pick. They had housing set up for thier time on the job on many of these farms. Evidently, it's been a long time since teens worked at farms in this area, & it shows in thier character, imho. (Part of the problem is that the apples come into full ripeness after school starts, while the tobacco is ready in early August.)

I ended up hiring my son on various jobs as a laborer, but it wasn't the best solution, & it even caused some strife between us until I quit trying to do that.

Now, as I've said, it's next to impossible to get hired on many of the construction sites in this area, as employers seem to prefer the very quick, but technically deficient services of the foreign work force.

It ain't all bad, though. I've gotten a lot of work fixing thier mistakes!

Way to go SLACKER. Good work.
Lets add to the truth you are dishing out and when Craig verifies this...
Almost 2200 hundred Americans murdered last year BY ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS.

DID ANYONE MISS THE POINT,,,, These were American Citizens killed by Foreign Aliens. Starting to match 9/11

One of the worst cases was the little 3 year old KILLED ,DEAD, AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, BORN AND RAISED HERE, by an Illegal immigrant .

IN AN ICE CREAM PARLOR.

Your president had the balls to come out against the AZ law because now all the Illegals will be afraid to go to an ICE CREAM PARLOR. YEAH HE REALLY CARES ABOUT YOU.

Tell that to that poor little 3 year old girl.

YOU GUYS AMAZE ME.

By the way SHE's DEAD.

I feel like stepping in here... but based on your comments I'm feeling it would be a waste. IOW, I don't mean you aren't worth it... you just don't come to the table saying "ok, I'll listen, please offer some rebuttal that might convince me and I'll listen with an open mind". That means there's no room for debate as you come to the table with your mind made up.

at least that's what it sounds like to me... but I want to be convinced otherwise. I want to be convinced you are a fair and impartial judge who has no vested interest and can be swayed one way or another based on reasonable arguments.

let me attempt at some.

illegals killed 2200 folks last year... ok. So... what do we do about that? hurt several thousand people who had nothing to do with those killings?
what is the prob we want to solve here... the economy? so your theory is that if we get rid of all illegal immigrants that will fix the economy?
seems the central thesis here is that illegals have caused damage to the economy.

consider, many of them pay taxes under false ss#. They don't get the tax return at the end of the year... it goes to the actual ss# owner or just goes right back in the govts pocket. so, they pay taxes but won't ever get social security benefits. they won't be eligable for unemployment either... which they pay for. but on the other hand they send their illegal kids to our schools. but then they pay property taxes... how you say? they rent and the owner of the property pays taxes. ah, but they earn and take their money back to mexico right? how much money do you think that is? as much money as we dished out to our banks while they posted record profits?
yes, they pay taxes under false ss#s and our pour businesses get fooled into hiring them... because it's too hard to verify... yet the police come by and in a space of an hour are able to determine that they are all illegal.

I propose we put 50cal automated turrets and land mines on the boarder... but we subsequently lower the price of getting here legally... then we will weed out the criminals, and just let in the honest hardworking majority that are no different than your or my grandparents, great grandparents, etc.

btw, ever wonder if the economy sucks because we all go to wal mart for the best prices and buy things from outside the us? why don't we start treating people who do THAT the same way we treat these unsavory immigrants?

how bout we start revoking biz licenses for those caught hiring illegals... I get they'd def verify those ss#s then.

furthermore new rule... anyone caught here illegally loses the right to ever come here legally.

lets focus on the problem instead of making demons out of a group of people... they tried that in germany and it didn't pan out all that well.

MisterMikeV, They have an underground economy in this country. If you go to a flea market here in H-town you can buy anything you want bootleg dvd's, cd's, drugs, prostitutes they obey NONE OF OUR LAWS. I know them well being a carpenter I have worked with them my entire life. I have a very unique perspective and inside information. You are a very intelligent guy but you do not understand the severity of this issue. They mow lawns and work construction and beleive me when I tell you MAYBE 5% to 10% pay taxes under false or someone elses SS number. The way it works here in Texas is the General Contractor on a construction site hires subcontractors to perform the various crafts. The subcontractor hires the illegals to do the actual work. The illegals are hired under a contract labor clause which means the subcontractor doesn't take out taxes from their checks and they are responsible for their own taxes. The subcontractor checks their SS. no.'s and reports that to cover his butt he gives them 1099's at the end of the year. Since the illegals don't have SS. they use someone elses and that person can be questioned by the IRS for not paying taxes on earned income because the illegal using there no. never payed taxes on the money they received.

Have you ever seen during the rescent protests signs that say RE- CONQUISTA? Do you know what that means? it means the illegals beleive they have a right to this country because it was taken away from mexico and they are taking it back. The more illegals we let into this country the larger political voice they will have to take back Texas, Arizona and California. That is their agenda bro. if you don't beleive it then you are naive and not understanding the reality because you beleive it exactly the way they want you to. This is a real invasion and if it is not stopped This country WILL be a third world country just like mexico. I know from your perspective Mike that probably sounds paranoid! But Brother I am on the front lines and have been all of my life. I don't believe all of them have this agenda but they have the same motivation being that they want to stay in this country illegally and continue their way of life. Which means not respecting the U.S. or ANY OF OUR LAWS. They can't take care of their own country so HOW in the hell do you think they will take care of ours NOT! I hope this helps you take off the blinders guy. Please don't take that as an insult or anything that I have said to you in this post. You are just misinformed and that is what they want and are counting on!

I beg your pardon, but what group of lawbreakers and thieves are you defending? It doesn't mention any ethnic groups, and people from all over go to Mexico to sneak in here illegally. So the "group" of people mentioned are law breakers. No one said a single word about legal immigrants.

I know a lot of people getting the bare minimum from SS because of one reason or another. That is about $800.00 a month. A good many American citizens who paid taxes and have been citizens all their lives fall into this group. So why should someone breaking the law get an average of $21,000 a year when the law of the land specifies they should even be here at all to receive any benefits at all?

There is a solution. A national ID that can not be faked. No one would have to be exported. They would all sneak back over the border on their own. No one is even in the slightest implying we should punish anyone NOT BREAKING THE LAW.

If you are going to let one group pf people break the laws of this country, and reward them for doing it, and encourage them to do so, then everyone should be encouraged to break any law they feel they want to break. PERIOD.

So what part of the word "illegal" do some illiterates out there have a hard time understanding? Do you actually believe that the government stealing money from law abiding citizens to reward lawbreakers is right? If so you are an a accomplice in that crime. You are thieves by complicity with the government that neither protects our borders nor punishes crime. A government without morality or justice towards every citizen who upholds the laws of America. A government supporting and rewarding crime with monies collected solely to protect and to assist the citizens of this country that they are literally stealing from every pay day.

So it you are a bleeding heart encouraging the breaking of the laws for people who do not respect our laws in the slightest, as displayed by their actions, maybe you should re evaluate your position to stand on the side of those AMERICANS who are obeying the laws of America and paying the price for it.

If you wish to stand with those who break the laws and steal the heritage of our children by helping to break the bank fine. But I hope you share heavily in the rewards when this country goes bankrupt. After all, you are encouraging just that.

My neighborhood is filled with illegals. The 13 gang rules it now. Drug dealers occupy about every 10th house. You can't leave ANYTHING outside and expect to find it there in the morning. You CAN expect gang graffiti to be on your garage door, or fence, or sidewalks when you wake up.

One illegal wanted to buy my motorcycle. He boasted about how he took goods to Mexico to sell. He boasted that he owns three houses in this city and 6 houses in Mexico. A good deal of his family collects welfare and every other form of assistance. They all drive really fine looking cars. They smash one up by not obeying the traffic laws, and the next week they have another nice looking car. Nothing wrong there.

Oh yes. I am sure I am the only one in America that has a neighborhood like that. All the rest are probably honest hard working law breakers. My loyalty is towards the citizens of America. I don't have sympathy for the lawbreakers. Those here legally, no problem. Those through the Reagan amnesty? No respect what so ever. That was simply another way to reward thieves and lawbreakers. And anyone not here legally that takes a dime of assistance is just that.

Mistermikeve, first of all you thanx for posting some good music.

I just want to know how you can live in the kidnapping capital of the world and be so complacent?Do You enjoy the violence that is happening all around you?

thanks glenj...
i don't want to confuse the issue. if you commit a violent crime you are a violent criminal and you should pay for it. Don't draw the conclusion that all immigrants, or even a more significant ratio of them are violent criminals. I don't want the criminals... I DO want the hard workers.

again, 50 cal turrets and landmines along the border... then double the amount of LEGAL immigration to this country... we'll be able to screen out criminals and as a result accommodate more hardworking legals. more immigration will equal more of them bringing their families here and thus spending their money here.
closing the border will make it harder to go back and forth for the legals... and perhaps we can even charge them each time... in order to help keep their money here in the us.

the truth is if we don't let them in here... nike will open factories just across the border and none of the money they make will ever be spent here. they wont pay tax here. they wont rent here.

AWE MAN, Mike you missed the one big word ...ILLEGAL. Don't you get it.
2200 Americans were not killed by LEGAL immigrants.
They were murdered by ILLEGAL immigrants . I don't understand where you have any pity for law breakers.

As far as NIKE moving their factories out of the country to places like Mexico,,,
Why am I going to pay $20 an hour when all I have to pay is $.50 an hour somewhere else.

Do you allways want to pay more for something of the same equivalent? This is the very basics of WALL STREET. NO,NO, NO!!!!!!

If you could take a higher paying position,,, You would turn it down because you feel you don't desrve to make more money and that would hurt the capitalist pig you are working for now. I don't know where you all keep coming from with this crap. Then you complain your not making enough. YOU KILL ME.

"AWE MAN, Mike you missed the one big word ...ILLEGAL. Don't you get it.
2200 Americans were not killed by LEGAL immigrants.
They were murdered by ILLEGAL immigrants . I don't understand where you have any pity for law breakers. "

There is an age old philosophical argument that goes something like this... "if something is wrong just because it is illegal then make it legal"
again, I don't want murderers in my country... but immigration issues are a different subject and you would bolster your argument by recognizing this fact in your statements. you don't like murderers who are americans do you?

"Do you allways want to pay more for something of the same equivalent?"
Go read up on the high cost of low prices friend. My point is the work is going elsewhere because the money you and I spend is going elsewhere.



"I beg your pardon, but what group of lawbreakers and thieves are you defending? It doesn't mention any ethnic groups, and people from all over go to Mexico to sneak in here illegally. So the "group" of people mentioned are law breakers. No one said a single word about legal immigrants. "
I was trying to lay this on you: murder is not wrong just because it is illegal... illegal immigration IS wrong ONLY because it's illegal. In other words... I wouldn't care at all if someone came here illegally, but then did all the right things, paid taxes, worked hard etc... I WOULD care if someone came here and murdered someone.
If you care to read my statement you will see I don't defend murderers.. and if you are so small minded that you actually think you can make a 1 to 1 correspondence between violent criminals and illegal immigrants then... well then there's no hope for you.

lets explore your logic a bit further... you come to a rolling stop at least once a day... how bout we toss you in jail for it? It's probably not that important of a crime so we don't enforce it 100% of the time.

careful with your illiterate and bleeding heart comments friend... If you can't make a point without being ugly then you have no point.


"MisterMikeV, They have an underground economy in this country. If you go to a flea market here in H-town you can buy anything you want bootleg dvd's, cd's, drugs, prostitutes they obey NONE OF OUR LAWS. I know them well being a carpenter I have worked with them my entire life."
again, so what you are saying is that all illegals sell bootleg dvd's?
I have a very unique perspective too... I've met well educated illegals.


"The subcontractor hires the illegals to do the actual work. The illegals are hired under a contract labor clause which means the subcontractor doesn't take out taxes from their checks and they are responsible for their own taxes. The subcontractor checks their SS. no.'s and reports that to cover his butt he gives them 1099's at the end of the year. Since the illegals don't have SS. they use someone elses and that person can be questioned by the IRS for not paying taxes on earned income because the illegal using there no. never payed taxes on the money they received. "
think about it... wouldn't it make more sense to pay taxes and ensure that your fake ss# will go undiscovered for years and years? if it doesn't make sense it isn't true.

I'm not afraid that mexico will take back arizona (actually they can have this crappy little dirt bowl). funny, at some point your grandparents or great grandparents were the subject of the same ill founded fears.

"Have you ever seen during the rescent protests signs that say RE- CONQUISTA?" yes, and they scare me just as much as the inbred skinheads who think this land belongs to them. both are a very small part of the population and both have their right to believe what they want. Question is... does either really have any more right to it than the other? why?

Mistermikev, I have to assume YOU ARE CALLING ME AN INBRED SKINHEAD!

There Is no hope for you Dude! Please continue to STICK YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND AND PRETEND! That it's all good! I wish you luck BRO!

I believe you are a EUTOPIAN! Right Bro! everythings great where you are!

Please continue on and sell this country out YOU ASSHOLE! My Grandpa was 100% Native American Choctaw Cherokee!

It sounds to me like you have such an EGO you would never admit you might be wrong! I guess you are not as SMART as I thought you were

Mr HALEY,
You are one great musician, and I have to say thanx for sticking your neck out.
People that are in the majority have been silent too long. What the few don't realize is you can sling insults, you can lie, you can attempt to show unreasonable ---reason,you can distort the very reason for being alive.

Jerky just came out in his own personal attack on me.
These are the very people that will create tremendous acts of violence against you and me and our great country. [IGREECE]

These people DON"T scare me at all.They don,t have a clue when they start to deal with real power.

You keep playing and I hope you enjoy that Mesa cab, I love mine.

It sounds to me like you have such an EGO you would never admit you might be wrong! I guess you are not as SMART as I thought you were

Yea, get used to that. You know what we should do? When Mike goes to work, let's just sneak a bunch of illegal strangers into his house and tell them they can live there.

Don't worry about his legal right to live in his house, it doesn't matter. I mean, it belonged to someone else before he moved in, so what more legal right does he have than you strangers?? Bathroom's down the hall to the right.