General Music Chat

Who all here is familiar with the story about music on this site:

http://www.banishedthought.com

This site is a free web-book about differences in religious philosophy that have substantially influenced progressive and alternative music over much of the last decade.

The author describes how a century past of the commercialization of church doctrines has led to both the decapacitating of intelligence in popular church leadership and to an alternative, "industrial revolution" of thought among a very small "outsider" class of politically savvy people.

The work also goes into significant detail about a number of qualities of musical lyricism that have arisen across much of the last decade in response to a certain "underground" document about this that circulated very widely among televangelists and rock stars alike back in 1998. The author also claims that the work of music in response to it is destined to yet find substantial public recognition for it's stand of truth for America and the free world and against religious bigotry and the foreign-biased political ignorance that now has America increasingly embroiled in no-win wars the world over.


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Good Info......'I'll check it out'..........Peace.

Thanks Vocals & Bass.

I'm going to take a chance on spreading myself thin here. so y'all try and be nice.

I find there are thousands of examples of lyrics written over the last 7-8 years that pertain to the subject matter on the site I've listed. But I have not been collecting any such examples. This one below, however, stands out in my mind just from a few years ago. So I will start with just listing these few verses from some of the work of James Blunt. The few portions I have chosen here, I would have to say, to anyone studied in this subject matter (and especially if they are familiar with that which it refers to), become fairly distinct (in the subjective impression) in hermanuetics and context as refering to the same.

I realize it can be a rather touchy subject to suggest knowledge of inspiration behind an inspirational work. So obviously, I can only even make the suggestion and not ask for confirmation, since even that takes away from the very independence of interpretation, which is an inherent value in itself of any art.

Perhaps I should at least request that any further posting here be done by persons familiar with the subject and/or the site reference, simply as a precaution for trying to keep the thread general and subjective, rather than possibly melting down with details.

All of these lyrics seem to be written as looking back in time from the future. The first one seems to be like a worst case scenario. It is from "No Bravery":

There are children standing here,
Arms outstretched into the sky,
Tears drying on their face.
He has been here.
Brothers lie in shallow graves.
Fathers lost without a trace.
A nation blind to their disgrace,
Since he's been here.

From "So long, Jimmy":

So long, Jimmy, so long.
Though you only stayed a moment,
We all know that you're the one. Singing,
So long, Jimmy, so long.
Sure we're glad for the experience,
We miss you now you've gone.
We're just swimming in your soul 'cause,
We all wish we wrote this song.
Life goes on.

I'm just so relieved that it's over.
We were hanging out going nowhere,
Digging how the guitar goes,
In a song that no one knows.
Did you burn that bridge yourself,
Or did the voodoo magic help?
Does everyone have a different take?
Are you just cool and I'm just baked?
Does everyone get mesmerized by your fire?

This one seems to be about the mistake of religious leaders, from before the "War on Terror" It is from "Wisemen":

She said to me, "Go steady on me.
Won't you tell me what the Wise Men said?
When they came down from Heaven,
Smoked nine 'til seven,
All the sh*t that they could find,
But they couldn't escape from you,
Couldn't be free of you,
And now they know there's no way out,
And they're really sorry now for what they've done,
They were three Wise Men just trying to have some fun."

This latter one seems to be of more like a best case scenario, which is, perhaps, in being found out for what he is really talking about when it is found to be more worth something. It is from "High":

Beautiful dawn - melt with the stars again.
Do you remember the day when my journey began?
Will you remember the end (of time)?
Beautiful dawn - You're just blowing my mind again.
Thought I was born to endless night, until you shine.
High; running wild among all the stars above.
Sometimes it's hard to believe you remember me.

It may be the video to "High" that somewhat made me think of this work of Blunt. The setting had empty chairs and party balloons, and generally left the impression of showing up "after the party is gone."

This is a very interesting subject to explore more deeply into, [For me anyway]. Gaining knowlwdge on this information would help enhance your ability as a lyricist, 'In my personal opinion'. For some reason I instantly thought of the lyrics to, Stings- I The hope the Rissians Love Their Children Too. [Not correct song tittle, I believe]. Gotta Go!!.Later

Here is another brief example illustrating the idea of new realization, in this case, in regards to the responsibility of "inspirational" industry leaders for the people or the nation. This one comes from Trent Reznor.

Keep in mind that this is a brilliant guy, not a preacher or a brain-dead Christian. He also penned that song Johnny Cash recorded, "Hurt" (who also recorded some several dozen new "spiritual" songs in his last year), which seems to be a take on his own "point of realization," that JC also felt. He was also rather a non-believer for many years.

This one is from his album of April, this year. I think it is unfortunate Trent seems to take this so personally in this song, since it is church leaders that are the real problem.
The song is "The Warning":

some say it was a warning
some say it's a sign
i was standing right there
when it came down from the sky
the way it spoke to us
you felt it from inside
said it was up to us
up to us to decide
"you've become a virus
killing off his host
we been watching you with all of our eyes
and what you seem to value most
so much potential
or so we used to say
your greed, self-importance and your arrogance
you piss it all away
we heard her cry
we have come to intervene
you will change your ways and you will make amends
or we will wipe this place clean"

your time is ticking away

all i can say is WOW ...

Like I pointed out in the first post, there are thousands of examples of lyrics that relate to this same subject. And most of them are not of quite such somber tone as the ones above.

There are some who took a lighter approach, and some with even downright sarcasm. The example here, I believe, is one on the lighter, sarcastic side, and simply about the sheer volume of the songs I am referring to. It is by the Bare Naked Ladies. The song is called "Another Postcard." The context is in the sense of music directed at the author of the work(s) that are the focus of the website above. And the examples of "postcard senders" (many, if not all) could be easily associated with the work of various music artists that was out at or before the time of this song.

Here is most of the song (less repeats), "Another Postcard":

You can't imagine so many monkeys in the daily mail
And all of them coming anonymously so they leave no trail
I never thought I'd have an admirer from overseas
But someone is sending me stationary filled with chimpanzees.

Some chimps in swimsuits,
Some chimps are swinging from a vine
Some chimps in jackboots
Some chimps that wish they could be mine.
Starsky and Hutch chimps
A chimp who's sitting on the can.
A pair of Dutch chimps who send their love from Amsterdam.

Another postcard with chimpanzees
And every one is addressed to me.
Another postcard with chimpanzees
And every one is addressed to me.

If I had to guess, I'd say the monkey-sender thinks it's great
He's sending me, maybe she's sending me, just to see me get irate
I'm losing sleep - and it's gonna be keeping me up all night
I thought it was funny, but now I've got money on a monkey fight.

Some chimps in hard hats
Chimps a-working on a chain gang
Some chimps who love cats
Burning rubber in a Mustang
A birthday-wishing chimp,
A chimp in black like a goth
A goin' fishin' chimp
A British chimp in the *accent* bath.

Another postcard with chimpanzees
And every one is addressed to me.
Another postcard with chimpanzees.
And every one is addressed to me.

Somehow they followed me even though I packed and moved my home
No matter what, they come, and they come, they won't leave me alone
Another monkey in the mail could make me lose my mind
But look at me shuffling through the stack until I finally find

Some chimps in swimsuits
Some chimps in Jackboots
Some chimps in hard hats
Some chimps who love cats
I've got some shaved chimps; that's chimps devoid of any hair
I've got depraved chimps dressed up in women's underwear.

Another postcard with chimpanzees
And every one is addressed to me.
Every one is, every one is, every one is addressed to me.
Every one is, every one is, every one is addressed to me.

Here are a few more good examples.

This is "I Did It", by David Matthews:

I'm mixing up a bunch of magic stuff
A magic mushroom cloud of care
A potion that'll rock, the boat will rock
And make a bomb of love and blow it up
I did it
Do you think I've gone too far?
I did it
Guilty as charged
I did it
It was me right or wrong
I did it
Yeah
I never did a single thing that did a single thing
To change the ugly ways of the world
I didn't know it felt so right inside
I didn't know it all
I opened up the curtains
I heard sirens there, the lights flash and crawl
But I did it justice
I just did it for the buzz, oh
It's a nickel or a dime for what I've done
The truth is that I don't really care
For such a lovely crime I'll do the time
You better lock me up I'll do it again
I did it
Do you think I've gone too far?
I did it
Guilty as charged
I did it
It was me right or wrong
I did it
Yeah
I never did a single thing that did a single thing
To change the ugly ways of the world
I didn't know it felt so right inside
I didn't know it all
I open up the curtains
I heard sirens there, the lights flash and crawl
But I did it justice
I just did it for us all, you know
All you people are the skewers of our dreams
Like the cat that collared me:
Oh, what I gotta say to you
You got love
Don't turn it down
Turn it loud
Let it build
We got a long way to go
But you, ya gotta start somewhere
Go door to door
Spread the love you got
You got the love
You get what you want
Does it matter where you get it from?
I for one
Don't turn my cheek for anyone
Unturn your cheek to give your love
Love to grow
I did it
Do you think I've gone too far?
I did it
Guilty as charged
I did it
It was me right or wrong
I did it
Yeah, yeah, yeah
I did it
I told you, I told you I did
I did it
Guilty as charged
I did it
I told you, I told you I did
I did it
Yeah
I never did a single thing that did a single thing
To change the ugly ways of the world
I didn't know it felt so right inside
I didn't know it all
I open up the curtains
I heard sirens there, the lights flash and crawl
But I did it justice
I swear I did it for us all, you know

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And then there is "Bad Day", by REM:

A public service announcement followed me home the other day,
I bade it nevermind, go away.
The sh**'s so thick, you could stir it with a stick,
The paper wouldn't lie, wisdom got lost to mankind, we gloat and jeer with it
Broadcast me a joyful noise into the times, Lord,
Count your blessings, ignore the lowest fear, well you can't send us, listen,
Radio no, play the game, three words, first one short,
Magazine, book, cinema, N - O - down,
Many fears are gone, step down, step down,
Watch a heel crush,ah this means war
I saw the light, it can't be right
Broadcast me a joyful noise into the times, Lord,
Count your blessings, ignore the lowest fear, well you can't send us,
It's been a bad day, please don't take my picture,
It's been a bad day, please
It's been a bad day, please don't take my picture,
It's been a bad day, please
A public service announcement followed me home the other day,
I bade it nevermind,
The sh**'s so thick, you could stir it with a stick,
The paper wouldn't lie, wisdom got lost to mankind, we gloat and jeer with it
Broadcast me a joyful noise into the times, Lord,
Count your blessings, ignore the lowest fear, come one, what more?
It's been a bad day, please don't take my picture,
It's been a bad day, please
It's been a bad day, please don't take my picture,
It's been a bad day, please

.

I've dug up a few more examples. The first one here is by Coldplay, which I think has been fairly heavy in this concept. The story here seems to be of trying to climb or elevate to something that has been found in a high place, as a place of power, one of a knowledge of "how it all began," which, in my opinion, is a reference to creation or creative forces as the knowledge being somehow discovered but still sought.

"Speed of Sound", by Coldplay:

How long before I get in
Before it starts before I begin
How long before you decide
Before I know what it feels like
Where to, where do I go?
If you never try then you'll never know
How long do I have to climb
Up on the side of this mountain of mine

Look up, I look up at night
Planets are moving at the speed of light,
Climb up, up in the trees
Every chance that you get is a chance you seize
How long am I gonna stand
With my head stuck under the sand
I'll start before I can stop
Before I see things the right way up.

All that noise and all that sound
All those places I have found
And birds go flying at the speed of sound
To show you how it all began
Birds came flying from the underground
If you could see it then you'd understand

Ideas that you'll never find
All the inventors could never design
The buildings that you put up
Japan and China all lit up
The sign that I couldn't read
or a light, that I couldn't see
Some things you have to believe
While others are puzzles, puzzling me

All that noise and all that sound
All those places I have found
And birds go flying at the speed of sound
To show you how it all began
Birds came flying from the underground
If you could see it then you'd understand
Oh, when you see it then you'll understand

All those signs I knew what they meant,
Some things you can invent
Some get made and some get sent ooh-ooh

And birds go flying at the speed of sound
To show you how it all began
Birds came flying from the underground
If you could see it then you'd understand
Oh, when you see it then you'll understand.

This next example, I think (let's just say so it impresses me), seems to express some resentment for traditional religious leaders for their acceptance and then ultimate rejection of this issue and the subsequent consequences, and the idea that "music" could not be considered acceptable to them even through suicide. The video for this song also told of a hidden (note or something) that was in the mouth (of the church?) and then finally given to the suicidal. I think I recall a black (black sheep?) rabbit in it too, which is symbolic of Easter in some theology.

Notice also the reference to a (false?) ghost or light that has been followed "without hope," and the "verbose" (much spoken of) mystery.

This is "Miss Murder", by AFI

Hey Miss Murder can I,
Hey Miss Murder can I,
Make beauty stay if I
Take my life?
Whoa oh oh

With just a look they shook,
And heavens bowed before him,
Simply a look can break your heart.
The stars that pierced the sky,
He left them all behind,
We’re left to wonder why.
He left us all behind.

Hey Miss Murder can I,
Hey Miss Murder can I,
Make beauty stay if I
Take my life?
Whoa oh oh
(Ohh)

Dreams of his crash won’t pass,
Oh how they all adored him,
Beauty will last when spiraled down.
The stars that mystify,
He left them all behind.
And how his children cried,
He left us all behind.

Hey Miss Murder can I,
Hey Miss Murder can I,
Make beauty stay if I
Take my life?
Whoa oh oh

What's the hook, the twist,
Within this verbose mystery?
I would gladly bet my life upon it.
That the ghost you love, your ray of light,
Will fizzle out without hope.

We're the empty set just floating through, wrapped in skin.
Ever searching for what we were promised.
Reaching for that golden ring we'd never let go,
Who would ever let us put our filthy hands upon it?

Hey Miss Murder can I,
Hey Miss Murder can I,
Make beauty stay if I
Take my life?
Whoa oh oh

Hey Miss Murder can I,
Hey Miss Murder can I,
Make beauty stay if I
Take my life?
Whoa oh oh

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Well. I haven't carefully perused the original material. It is rather poorly written, attempting to be profound rather than clear and concise. It is poorly proofread. So I guess I'm talking off the top of my head.

There is such a thing as "Zeitgeist". Trends in general thought exist at all times. Even those who pride themselves on being countercultural are affected by the underlying assumptions of their era. Could it be that this nexus you tout is merely a spirit of the times?

In most ages, art was anti-establishment. It tended to exhibit the trends the powers that be failed or refused to see. Take spray-paint graffiti, for example. As cities become megalithic and sterile-looking, the reaction is to add some life and color -- signs that there are real people here.

The exception is in eras of strong autocrats. Art forms then become paeans to the ruler. and consequently are less inspiring.

Art, especially music, involvea the right brain. It deals with concepts not espoused by the lordships of accountants, statisticians, and central planners. To the extent that any institution, be it a church, government, corporation, or whatever attempts autocratic control by the numbers, artists will react against it. They see what the bean counters don't.

It is true, the original material was poorly written and only partially edited. There were thoughts left hanging and some strange language used, even some a tad grandiose. These things made the success and impact of the work all the more interesting though. They would have hurt the work in normal channels of publication, obviously.

But there were also glimmers here and there of very deeply different and yet coherent thought that I think really drove the work. These highlighted, new realization of how limited and local all the channels of normal thought really are, even in the broadest spectrum of the known. It just made you realize how much we really may not know just because of what all we think we know. It always brought to my mind the idea scripture teaches about all the hairs of our heads being numbered. That says to me, any more, that all human thought is contained very simply and in much smaller space than it could really fill and exist in. But the work also shed light on the real behavior of such controls, and that was, in the very least, a bit disturbing, actually.

I think some of what it really taught was very much more through the right brain than the left. And it was certainly emotional.

I also agree with the idea of this "Zeitgeist" as you say, having some influence. I am certain there have been people, even of great creativity, going right along with the existing "general thought." And the self-expression of subcultural thought also seems to be another contributing factor to the coherence of many in the same trends.

People generally just choose from thoughts they have heard from others and integrate them into everything they know and believe, long before they labor for the true independence of their own thoughts. As a result there are really very few thinkers in the world.

It is the depth of the independence of thought that we really miss, and that we really suffer from

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I agree 'aristarcus' With your ending statement, "It is the depth of the independeance of thought that we really miss". I would like to ask for your personal opinion about the amount of influence that 'Curt Cobain's [Lyrics] have introduced to the last decade of artist? And how would you compare this era of lyrics, music, etc. to... The 50s, R&R era, & The late 60s to early 70s? One era that I dont know much about, But I am interested in Is , The 20s RagTime & Big Band [B.Goodman] era. {Sorry to get so far off the original subject, But I just cant focus on one certain era only} Thank You!......V&B.

I think these are very good questions, Vocals & Bass, and fairly big ones. The experience/information I have for answering them though, personally, I'm sure can be bettered by others. But maybe I can offer a useful general means for comparing the differences, at least as based on things presented in this thread. So let me post this question to another thread and we'll see if we can get a good discourse going on this.

Let's refer this to another hair of the head (thread) called, "Music Lyricism by the Era."

that you can present your thoughts to the world about certain topics. At various times in the past lyrics reflected what people were thinking about: politics, religion, civil rights, war, etc. What's happening in society has a HUGE effect on music. The 60's were particularly turbulent era and resulted in a particularly creative period in music. The 50's were almost the opposite, a particularly tranquil decade and the music (and lyrics) weren't very creative. The music and lyrics are a DIRECT reflection of what's happening in society. Why was big band music so popular in the 40's? It's easy to figure out. We were in a world war with large armies. It was the thinking that we all had to pitch in and work together, much like a large band has to work together. How on earth did we go from do-op in the 50's (Platters, Belmonts, etc.) to Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin? It's easy to figure that out also. We went from tranquility to near revolution. Music, a great way to express your thoughts. Later...your friendly neighborhood bluesman

One of the many music sites I'm on is exclusively for lyricists.
It seems that a huge percentage of the lyrics being written by kids nowadays (under 25 years old) is defeatist.
That is, many of the lyrics on the site show no effort to look for anything positive.
These kids feel beaten . . .
Possibly their view on society, or the world as a whole, is fashioned by the sensationalistic, 'National-Enquirer' mentality news shows.
. . . or not . . .
The cause is for another thread . . .
But, the percentage of negative lyrics is far, far greater than what I heard in the 60's, 70's, 80's . . .
For whatever the reason, I'm seeing an alarming number of young adults who seem to be ready to just lay down and die . . .