General Music Chat

I agree with you Craig racism is wrong PERIOD! But it is a fact of life all races on this rock have their extremist groups not just WHITE FOLKS! You can't stick your head in the sand and blame ALL white folks for it. All we can do as people living on this rock is change how we deal with it from this day forward! SOME of the most RACIST people whom I have ever met ARE NOT WHITE! I will make NO APOLOGIES FOR BEING WHITE but I will respect other people as best I can!

I fear only rust ( and an R chord ).
Responding violently to these types is what they want.
Playing their game is not defeating anything.

A "warrior" knows better.

I agree with you Craig racism is wrong PERIOD!

But it is a fact of life all races on this rock have their extremist groups not just WHITE FOLKS!

(...)

but I will respect other people as best I can!

Glad to hear this brother!!


And yes sir, I agree with you, and I think I did mention, that it was wrong... NO MATTER WHERE IT COMES FROM!

I felt like Attorney General Eric Holder's comments about America being a "Nation of cowards" on race relations, was racist itself, and completely inappropriate, considering that this "cowardly" nation had not only just elected it's first Black President, but also... it's first Black Attorney General in the form of Mr. Holder himself!

Talk about the wrong speech at the wrong time!

Let me get this straight, If I chose to only play with white people that makes me a racist.

K got a private message concerning this. Maybe this other guy wasnt politically correct in his approach or response. But to me he saved a lot of time and bullshit. I guess he should have just said we arent interested cause you dont fit our musical genre. To me its no different than saying we only want to play with 18-25 yr olds. Or we are a metal band and only want to play with metal musicians. Ive chosen recently not to play with some people because they werent up to my playing level.

If Im a dinosaur in some way then so be it. On a musical level I have played at different times with people of other races than my own. Out of highschool I played with a black gospel band. They actually dropped me cause I was white and told me that at the time. Some of the places we played supposedly made comments that they didnt understand why they had a young white guy playing lead. I didnt think anything of it at the time and still dont and am friends with a couple of those members and have put guitar on recordings for them over the years.

I think by throwing a private message out and discussing it in a public forum you brought your racism to the table front and center. Not the other way around. I guess the other guy should just have said we dont want to play with you cause you suck or something.

Pardon me bandmixers for being such a dumbass on this subject.

"You missed the part where someone has a RIGHT to be OUTRAGED at poor character, and outdated shameful behavior, especially in a modern era. Think of it this way... Madonna has every right to simulate sex acts before a large crucifix with an image of Jesus on it, onstage, if she chooses to. But the religious public ALSO HAS A RIGHT to be OUTRAGED at her sacrilegious display, and VOICE THEIR OPINIONS ON IT PUBLICLY, and even BOYCOTT her shows and CD sales if they choose to."

No. YOU also missed the point. I think we all have the freedom to hire whomever we wish for our application and not bludgeoned with the PC race card for our choices.

Everyone has the freedom to whine about petty crap, and that is what it is in the greater picture of your life. But the bigger thing is to just get over it.
When someone gets rejected for any reason they can either whine about it or simply move on. No one seems to have the balls to just accept rejection for any reason.

I am not begrudging anyone the freedom to complain or to be angry. I just hear so much over what amounts to nothing in the bigger scheme of life I get weary of it. I still do not feel I it is right for someone to tell anyone who they can or can't hire or why.

Isn't that like saying "I'm Indian so you have to hire me or I'll scream bloody murder all over the Internet?" They really aren't worth all that attention. Period.

And why would ANYONE want to join a band that doesn't want you for any reason unless that is their last chance at fame and fortune. Or unless your a really pathetic musician, which isn't the case at hand but worth mentioning. So if you force them to hire you, would that be a pleasant experience for everyone? So what is the goal of pissing and moaning about it on the Internet?

Feelings have been hurt. I understand that. I also understand that all things happen for a reason, and a great deal of the time it is simply to toughen us up for things to come in life. To toughen us up so we can get through the bigger events that shall come our way some day.

(For those who do not subscribe to scripture.... never mind.)

I get rejected and have been many times simply because I was over qualified for a position. I never bitched about it and I never brooded over it. I never ran to the department of "Justice for the Over Qualified" and made a complaint. I just thought they were nuts for making the decision they made.

It wouldn't bother me that anyone wouldn't want me because I'm old. Offensive, yes. It doesn't bother me when anyone doesn't want to jam with me because I'm white. If someone puts age over skill, that is their choice. If someone wants to hire a black guy because it would make their band more politically correct, more power to them. IT IS THEIR FRIGGIN BAND NOT MINE.

I don't complain that people here don't listen to my music because they discriminate against country music. Even though what I play isn't country music per say. I don't complain that they JUDGE me as a country picker without listening to my material. I don't complain that they are discriminating against me. Should I? Should I go to the " BandMix Fairness in Listening Board" and bitch? HeII YEAH!!!! Damned right I should. But I won't. I'll just take my lumps like a man and get over it.

One is as discriminating as the other. But I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it. That would give credibility to them. I know where PC comes from and what it's goal is. It is evil to the core. In the end it shall be a tool for persecution for anyone not accepting status quo of the ungodly.

Therefore I am against it.

"Please tell me, I am not the only one on this forum (and Phil) who realizes this?"

Actually, I'm not for making a big stink out of it, so I would tend to disagree with your reactions to this subject, Craig.

As I said - every person has the right to be wrong. It's not up to me to change anyone's mind, or to "force them to see the real truth."

Ppl will continue to blindly go about putting ppl into nice little boxes & categories, whether I like it or not.

My job is to teach by example, if possible, not by the ruler on the knuckles. If those underdeveloped ppl choose to continue as they have been for so many generations, that is thier choice.

I generally associate with others of like mind, just like everyone else. If others want to join in, the more the merrier, but I don't associate with those who are of the warring minds who would force others to change thier beliefs. Nor do I condone racism with my silence on the subject. That is a common fallacy promoted by those who would force ppl to change.

I will fight for the rights of the racist as much as I would for the common good, to a degree. Sorry, but that's how I am. When thier beliefs hurt others outright, then I fight them, but telling me how they think? That hurts no one. They have that right, even if I disagree with it.

Ppl can associate & work with whoever they choose. That, imho, is the whole idea behind personal choice, personal freedom, & I will not alter them in any way by force or verbosity or belittling. That would be unAmerican, in my mind.

Let me get this straight, If I chose to only play with white people that makes me a racist.

Yeah, if it was part of your criteria it would.

Absolutely.

"Please tell me, I am not the only one on this forum (and Phil) who realizes this?"

Actually, I'm not for making a big stink out of it, so I would tend to disagree with your judgements on this, Craig.

Oh no... I know without a doubt, you wouldn't be vocal about anything when it counted most.

Get the paycheck.

Make waves AFTER getting paid.


Yeah, never did I mean that you agreed on everything I was saying. Just that you DID MAKE A LITTLE STAND at least, and told this band that you wouldn't play "white only" places.

That was a "little" bit of a stand I thought.

It was something more than following the racist status quo anyway.

Let me get this straight, If I chose to only play with white people that makes me a racist.

Yeah, if it was part of your criteria it would.

Absolutely.

Craig thats about as lame ass a thing as Ive ever seen you write.

Im entitled to my point of view and you are too, I guess on this we dont and wont agree.

Slacker,

All I can say, is that I believe in freedom of choice. If someone wants a white band because they are a sorry-ass racist, then have a sorry-ass "white only" band... fine.

We agree... up to THAT point.

But just because it is LEGAL to do something, does not make it RIGHT.

If someone's daughter decided to move to Nevada and become a LEGAL prostitute... it is certainly "her choice" but I would hope that any SELF-RESPECTING father, would read her the riot act... and would let her know in no uncertain terms, that he didn't respect her decision, that it was a poor life choice, and he's not going to pretend it is not devastating to him, when it really is!

I would hope he would be VOCAL about it, even though he acknowledges that he cannot stop her from doing it.

By your logic, should I assume that you are NOT that kind of dad?

You would be silent and act as if nothing were wrong, if your daughter went into prostitution, because after all... whether it's right or wrong... who cares? It's all about her choice and respecting it, even when we disagree?

I believe whats in a mans soul is more important than the color of his skin.
I also believe in rights to choose with whom we may associate by what ever criterion we set forth.
My wife however would disagree if I told her I was going to join a band of beautiful women.

Craig thats about as lame ass a thing as Ive ever seen you write.

Im entitled to my point of view and you are too, I guess on this we dont and wont agree.

Well, we disagree then.



Why you find my comment lame though, from a purely logical perspective, I don't understand?

If you are a racist, then yes, I would be lame to you.

But if not?

What is lame about my position?



Imagine this scenario...


Someone calls on the phone, and says...

"I saw your add in the paper, and I wanted to get some information about auditioning as bass player..."

"Are you black? You sound black."

"Uhh... yes, I'm black... but, I've been playing bass for over...."

-CLICK-


That's racism.

I don't know what YOU want to call it instead. But the criteria was obviously RACE, as opposed to SKILL or MUSICIANSHIP or QUALIFICATIONS.

Craig:

You will not sway someones opinions / actions with an emotional tirade.
That simply not how it's done.

Even idiots respond better to calm concise communications.
And even if they don't at first, they may latter come to see a different view point.

Screaming LABELS at people only serve to cement their views.

Me, I'm no raciest. I hate everybody equally.

No need to belittle me, Craig. I wasn't attacking you in any way. I just have a different viewpoint on the situation.

As far as "getting the paycheck," I felt I had an obligation to the band, though they certainly changed the parameters a bit. I did manage to get them to stop booking in the racist joints, while I was in the band, at least.

As far as I know, that was the only time I ever played a gig in a place like that, & frankly, it embarrassed me to do it.

When I 1st moved here, there were a LOT of those places around, & as soon as I found out what they were all about, I wouldn't patronize them. That, imho, is the only truly American way to change things.

Others have followed my example, when I explained why I wouldn't go here or there, so it must have worked for some ppl, anyway.

I take it your method would be to what, picket the place or something? Write a nasty lil bit in the local rag? Call the law on them for thier policies?

Not my thing, & in my mind, it wouldn't be fair to the ppl that DO patronize them for that very reason. They have the right to be with thier friends just as much as you or I do.

I feel the same way about the smoking ban in bars. A biz should have the right to do as it wishes on this, for its clientelle.

Way back, I did a play, in blackface. I played a regular black man, wasn't making fun of anyone. I was the only actor available who knew the lines at the time, after the guy that had the role quit unexpectedly.

I left the rehearsal in full makeup, & went to my favorite rednecky biker bar.

When I walked in, someone kicked the plug on the juke box. All conversation stopped. Ppl were staring at me. All was silent & scary. The bartender said something along the lines that I was in the wrong place. It was all rathar frightening. That same night, I had a little fender bender with a little old lady. I had a white girl with me. I'll never forget the way the cop spoke to me, until I told him I was white, after he looked in my car & saw my gf.

Yeah, I learned a whole lot that night about race relations.

But you know what? I couldn't have changed a single person's mindset. I tried, in the bar, & if it weren't for my humor, I'd have prolly gotten my ass kicked pretty good just for trying. I felt pretty lucky, all in all, to live through the night in one piece. That was in Ohio, in 1976. I've never forgotten the lessons I learned that night.

I may not have changed anyone else's mind, but it sure changed the way I think about other ppl, & the way I treat them. And that, Craig, is the only thing I have control over - the things I say & do & believe. And that's the only thing I have the right to work on.

Ok, so this guy sends me another message, saying he wanted to make sure I wasn't some weird punk(non white) I won't even hand out the rest, it's not even worth it...believe me or don't.

JW, asking if you're white should only imply your identification i.e. DMV...etc.

I got a little story for you all, so sit down by the campfire real quick:
These bastars almost killed my friend when I started as a musician. It was my first show, and I heard some girl had spread rumors about our vocalist, he said not once, but twice, that it was not true what was being said about him. After the set, 25-30 skins rush the stage. Security disappears, people empty out, I'm on the floor taking down my drum kit. These guys are like army ants trying to throw me down...thankfully didn't happen. So the pirahna jump on stage and rush the vocalist. Bass player and guitarist are trying to pull these monsters off. So, I go outside and yell for backup...nothing! Then, I run back in and grab my 22 in. ride still on the stand and before I could swing...in comes one security guard with a smile and they say they'll take it outside. So, wer'e throwing our gear in the car and jumping in like it was a sport. We got out of there before they could get us again. Later on, the club covers it all up, and later even puts it in a book with two false write-ups. It was an inside set-up from the inside. I had a strange feeling from the beginning something was goig to happen. No lie!

You want to know why we have racism? Whites started it! They killed the Native Americans, took slaves, caged Asians, and killed Mexicans. But that's only the skinny, everybody got imprisoned, raped and murdered. So thanks to those hitler groupies, I can't walk through certain neighborhoods at night.

OK Slacker and JW, I love you no less than anyone else on this forum, but, you sound as though it would be fine to sell swastika memorbillia. Get out of your stubborn heads and think about my, and everyone else's point of view.

This country is still tilted because of our history.