General Music Chat

Fact is, if they were asking you for the same proof, you'd bitch and don't lie.

You know you would.

I don't know that.

We live in a trying time. I accepted the Patriot Act and it is a huge incursion into privacy that can be abused easily, and.... has been abused. On the other hand, if it uncovered a nuclear bomb plot, I would suppose that even though I had a little less freedom (privacy) I was at least ALIVE to enjoy the many freedoms I did, still have.

It's a hard question for me.

I understand both sides of the issue.

But Glen has a good point, that no one bitches (anymore) about drunk driving roadblocks, which are WAY UNCONSTITUTIONAL as far as I am concerned. But who complains? It doesn't do any good to complain, without creating a law to go with it.

Did you read the story?

Just the highlighted part is enough.

Did you think you would be living in a country, in this modern era, where 400+ American citizens were being KIDNAPPED... many of them IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, by Mexican drug gangs, and efectively NOTHING was being done about it?

But here we are!

We need a new Ronald Reagan!

It's beginning to mean NOTHING to be an American anymore.

F*cking SPINELESS politicians!

"We need a new Ronald Reagan!"

you guys all bring up some good points about this.
SS#s this has happened before where people have collected on the accounts of dead people. Yes this not an arm of govt enforcement,BUT WHO THE HELL IS! Who is going to stop the waste and theft.
Arizona has a very large population that own personal protection,all Legal.
Just shows how hard it is to go against true American values of charity and love of life. Crime is low in AZ except for the carnage spilling over from mexico.
Anyone hear that 911 tape of the woman that did everything she could to avoid killing the man that was breaking into her house? It was totally contrary to her beliefs to take a human life. She finally blasted the guy back out the door all the time talking to 911 and her reaction was to apologise.

This is a very sticky issue, especially when you talk about our country unleashing over the top military might.

The other point is that this has all lead to greater govt control in the name of protection.
Because of a few we have lost much. This only opens the door to some really scary stuff.
Ask Craig cause I'm not sure, but the Library of congress just asked permission to archive all chats on "TWITTER"

WHY???? For hysterical presevation?

Ive been worried about stuff twenty years out. I am not trying to scare anyone but we have a few questions we have to at least think about that are happening now.

If you want to keep someone out, try building a wall they can't climb or go around.

And I have to laugh, a freind of mine from GA flew in today and showed me his Birth Certificate about the size of a driver's license in his wallet.

Blew my mind.

Here in NJ, we don't have that happy sheet.

Ours is huge and green, with a raised seal...(not carrying that around).

And we expect to get beat up and fuct over by the local police.
(it's what they do)(They are worse when they get bored)

So where exactly do WE gain from this so called Patriot Act and WHO exactly is it supposed to protect us from?

Well, it seems to me that if you are a weapons manufacturer, or an international builder, or a merc company, any kind of logistics, or other company that makes $$ off war.. then the P.A. protects your ability to rake in nearly criminal profits at the expense of the American taxpayers. It protects your wealth from the common man in America.

If you are middle class or poor.. well, you just lost a bunch of your rights so other people can get richer. If life were craps, you just rolled snake eyes.

Thats not the problem Kramer and you keep looking for someone else to blame. Right away it's corps making money and you are not getting any of it.

If you insist on getting re-involved in all this politcal stuff you hate to be involved in then SO BE IT.

All I ever hear from you is where is my cut.
Start your own corp and lobby the proper polits and you can cash in also.

Meanwhile rather than poke your finger in the wrong direction lets stop people from breaking the law. Is that wrong also?

Also the new H.C , bill just gave guarranteed rights to any one in this country.

THAT ESPECIALLY INCLUDES LAW BREAKING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

Then a whole bunch of crazy people ,,,,Polits ,reporters, judges,etc start talking about crap like racial profiling, when actually this is about CRIMINAL profiling. You dont think the IRS ,FBI,CIA, SECRET SERVICE, use this.

Kramer you keep pointing your finger at what ever you you want to point at ,but untill you wake up and realise the real problems , they will continue to grow.

If the Federal Government refuses to enforce Federal Law due to back room monetary deals or desire for votes. Then the States should.
Profiling is not BAD it's just a tool for investigation and enforcement and always has been. Simple common sense investigative technique that produces results. If your looking for illegal aliens from South America would you waste time pulling over blond haired white women ?? If you would, your either too horny, or a dumbass.
Despite the fact that a full 1/3 of the violent criminals imprisoned in the US are illegal aliens of various races.
What part if Illegal Alien do people not understand ??

Yeah and this just points the way to the breakdown of all laws in America.
This is just the begining and don't get Craig started.
I am so sick of different sets of laws for different classes.
Tim Geithner is our Sec of treasury, He goofed on his Income taxes. Was there any investigation as to criminal intent. NOOOOO the IRS backed off real fast.
WHY, WHY ,WHY.
If that was a corp some of you would be screaming.

You folks are at the start of the end. Ask Hayden,,, Got thrown in jail by an overzealous govt for something he didn't do,and many laws that a huge part of Americans don't believe with to begin with.
To bad Hayden didn't have enough polit connections. Sorry to use you as an example Hayden the only thing you did wrong was leaving your head in a hole and your butt in the air ,And I like you and your playing.

Different laws, different days, different people. This is the start of The great American breakdown... I just hope you are not on the wrong side of it.

Thats not the problem Kramer and you keep looking for someone else to blame. Right away it's corps making money and you are not getting any of it.

Now, Glen! Don't go confusing me & Kramer! I'm the anti-corp guy around here, & don't you forgit it!

I don't see him pointing his finger in any wrong directions. Our previous VP had a huge interest in Haliburton & Black Water, & those were co's that profitted hugely from the PA, yet you don't find that even curious!

Meanwhile, ppl had thier phones tapped for no reason other than they called a friend or relative overseas, or even in Canada or Mexico. Seems a little overboard to me, considering the cost of it all.

You bitch about the HC bill "giving" the illegals exactly the same rights that they already HAVE, & that just makes no more sense to me than ppl bitching about the new AZ illegals bill.

You are right, though, in one respect. Our lawmakers are writing laws that don't need to be written - mostly because they already exist - but you'll bitch about them anyway. You should be bitching about the cost of rewriting stuff that already exists, instead.

I am so sick of different sets of laws for different classes.

Me too, Glen - the special priveledges that rich co's get over the general population is astounding to me. The fact that our Supreme Court sold out our gov't to them sickens me, too. I don't hear you griping about that, though...& I find that to be very curious...Do you really have that much trust in big biz?

dECHO, in a more perfect scenario, your co should have been either fined or dismantled, & those responsible for those illegals should have been jailed. Of course, we're so worried about the effects on the economy that we'd never actually DO anything to a large co that does this sh*t, right?

Phil...Hahaha! My company wasn't the one at fault here. We were a contractor working at the Intec plant putting in a new machine for them. The Intec plant was the one that hired all of the illegals to work for them. The place that I work for has only 14 people and we're all AMERICANS. You guys need to learn to read a little better. I see it happen all the time on these boards...

By "your co," I meant the one you used in your example. 80 ppl is a lot of illegals!

Sorry - poor choice of wording.

Illegal aliens would not come here if there weren't any jobs. Jobs that Americans won't do for that wage. But did they pass a law saying it is illegal to hire undocumentated workers? Noooooooooo. They pass a law that says it's OK to demand to see anyone's ID for no other reason. Why not go after the companies that hire these people?

"Papers? Where are your papers?" - Nazi Germany 1942

I've been the victim of long haired teenager profiling.
And thats with half a force of lapd washouts and bad apples, that ended up here in the late 80's throughout the 90's.
You get cop savvy real quick.

Philbert, why dont you rally the stickkmasters and do something about those god-awful coal mine owners?
Turn your passions to good use for west virginia.

I dont care about 'racial profiling'.
I do believe much of the responsibility should be on the employers.

Illegal aliens would not come here if there weren't any jobs. Jobs that Americans won't do for that wage. But did they pass a law saying it is illegal to hire undocumentated workers? Noooooooooo. They pass a law that says it's OK to demand to see anyone's ID for no other reason. Why not go after the companies that hire these people?

"Papers? Where are your papers?" - Nazi Germany 1942

Once again I find myself in (almost) total agreement with your statement Jimmy.
I fully agree we as a nation should ruthlessly go after anyone whom employs illegal aliens. Big fines and prison time.
But here's where we diverge.
It is a myth that all illegal imigration is about work. A large percentage is crime based. And being that it is a big problem and financial burden not only on law enforcement but the social support systems here in America. I see nothing nazi about requiring proof of citizenship. Just common sense. Like wearing sunscreen or insect repellent in the summer.
I have a license to drive.
I have a license to be armed. ( despite it being unconstitutional )
I have a license to be a nurse. (would you want me to work without one?)
I have a license to be a pawn broker.
I have a license to sell explosives. (black powder)
In order to be employed I have to produce most if not all of these depending on the job plus my social security card and proof of motor vehicle insurance. Why should illegal immigrants or anyone else be immune to these.
We should:
1 Streamline the legal immigration process and migrant workers visas.
2 Enforce our immigration laws including harsh punishment for aiding and abetting (huge illegal cottage industry in itself) including any level of employment.
3 Absolutely forbid any social services to anyone illegally in our country.
4 Get the damn violent criminal illegals out of our prisons /country and hang them if they come back.

"Papers? Where are your papers?" - Nazi Germany 1942

Those damn Nazis!!!

They nationalized healthcare too didn't they!