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#108224 by Chippy
Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:37 pm
Thanks dECHO.
I'm not a hot head either frankly, I do apologize in any case. It does sound a tough job that one too. Please keep well.


dECHO wrote:It's cool man, but I didn't complain about anything. I simply showed an example of how the tax percentages work. I did make a statement about Obama, but it still wasn't complaining. I don't complain, I take action and do the best that I can for my family... :D

#108231 by CraigMaxim
Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:43 pm



Where absolute right and wrong are concerned, Phil, I really don't give a damn what is popular! Slavery was popular at one time, and so was denying women the right to vote, and so was denying equal opportunity to homosexuals, women or people of color.

ALL of those are wrong.

Popular or not.

To "STEAL" from people, merely for having more than you do, is... WRONG!

And you offer NO OTHER REASON for taking more from them, than that they HAVE more. If you really think that is justifiable, you are a THIEF!

You have NO RIGHT, to make such decisions about OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY! To steal money from others, merely because they have more than someone else, is... REPREHENSIBLE!!!

It is how COMMUNISTS think.

People like you, will flush the freedoms we have left, and the opportunities we have still, to succeed, merely because you are JEALOUS of successful people, and TOO LAZY and UNDISCIPLINED to manage your own money properly, so YOU can then begin building your own fortune.

YOUR THINKING, IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE COUNTRY!


THE FOUNDING FATHERS NEVER.... EVER... INTENDED for there to be a tax on personal INCOME... or WAGES!!!

An income tax was instituted to help pay for the Civil War in 1861. It was repealed after 10 years, and that should have been the end of it, but nearly a quarter century later, a new Income tax was instituted in 1894, but this was ruled UNCONSTITUIONAL just one year later!

It was not until 1913 that a PERMANENT "income tax" succeeded in being passed, and... with an iron fist, has been kept secure by EVIL politicians to this day!

In 2007, the top 5% of income earners paid over half of the federal income tax revenue. And, the top 1% of income earners paid 25% of the total income tax revenue.

1% - Paying 25% of the Nation's taxes!!!

How is that fair?

Why should wealthy people pay MORE MONEY and yet, get NO MORE VALUE in public services, in exchange??????

You STILL have not explained why that is correct behavior?

Where is your conscience?

How can you possibly believe it is justified to TAKE MORE MONEY from American Citizens, MERELY because they have more to take from?

Exploitation is what you call EMPLOYMENT?

You speak "Communist" so well... why not just declare it publicly here and now?

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#108235 by Chippy
Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:50 pm
I don't see any peeps any different to me. We are all in the waiting room deciding whether or not we will in fact walk to the car and go somewhere nice?

Of the population of this good Earth I'd say that 99.9999999999% are all good people.
It isn't even 1% that want to do harm.
Less than that even.

I thought you guys were ok?

#108242 by philbymon
Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:22 pm
"You have NO RIGHT, to make such decisions about OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!"

Obviously, I don't make any such decisions.

"It is how COMMUNISTS think."

"People like you..."

"YOUR THINKING, IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE COUNTRY!"

"Where is your conscience?"

"You speak "Communist" so well..."

"...you are JEALOUS of successful people, and TOO LAZY and UNDISCIPLINED to manage your own money properly..."


When you speak to me like this, I cannot respond to you without resorting to either defending myself or attacking your behavior. Once again, your arguments have degenerated into personal assault, Craig. Come back when you speak to me with respect, & I might talk with you. Your "passion" is no more than self-indulgent & overemotional outburst, & it no longer matters to me what you say about anything from this point.

I will no longer deal with such childish behavior.

Have a good day.

#108249 by CraigMaxim
Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:25 am
philbymon wrote:

I will no longer deal with such childish behavior.




Nothing childish about it!

The ideas you so casually promote, are a THREAT to DEMOCRACY, to FREEDOM and to PROPERTY RIGHTS! You are too ignorant (or unconcerned) of world history, which could educate you to the fact, that the loss of PROPERTY RIGHTS is one of the primary underpinnings of totalitarianism!

And though you don't understand all the dimensions of this, you should try and understand this intellectually, if nothing else.

STEALING or PURPOSEFULLY "Devaluing" money, "IS" a threat to PROPERTY, therefore FREEDOM ITSELF! Money is nothing more than a marker, a record, of the "value" you have accrued in life. Money represents VALUE, whether of property, or possessions, or of accrued value through work. To OVER-TAX, is to STEAL the value of one's work, or property and efforts... and the value of his life itself... "FINANCIALLY".

They may as well be taking the oven out of your house, your car, or some of your land, etc... Because they are taking much of your VALUE, your economic net-worth, as represented by money.

Do you remember why the colonists rebelled in the first place? It was a little something, about having REPRESENTATION in government, but why? Because the King was OVER-TAXING them... TAKING THEIR LIVLIHOOD and NET-WORTH away from them! They were INCENSED! They worked too hard, to have the fruits of their labors, which they had accumulated, just be RIPPED OFF from them, because the government was too greedy!

Americans, from even BEFORE we became an independent nation don't take kindly to being ROBBED by oppressive and UNJUST government!

This issue goes to the VERY FOUNDATION of our Democracy and it's sustainability. It is not that "I" am being childish. It is that "YOU" are being aloof, irresponsible and frankly... UN-AMERICAN!

You simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND just how serious and VITAL this issue is! This is NOT a small matter... it goes to the heart of freedom itself!

Theft through excessive taxation, is just as poisonous as a government ruled by theocracy. It is a CONTROL TACTIC! You like your life and family being controlled to that degree?

I don't!

It is also a way to control STATES and undermine STATES RIGHTS! Because when the government collects EXCESSIVE taxes, meaning... VALUE LEAVES YOUR STATE where does it go? To the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT! And what does that do? The Federal Government can then put huge CONDITIONS on returning some of that money to your state, through federal expenditures on highways, infrastructure, public schools, etc... TAnd if the state doesn't agree to the conditions put on the money, guess what? They don't get those billions back.

Weren't you the one "protecting" the LOCAL economy?

Federal income tax, is one of the biggest con-games of all time, to STEAL your state's money, and then CONTROL your state's destiny and decision making powers and rights!

It is NO COINCIDENCE that it was AFTER the CIVIL WAR that politicians tried and tried, until they succeeded, in making Income Tax, paid to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, a PERMANENT requirement.

Because it results in a HUGE TRANSFER of WEALTH, from STATE CONTROL to the control of FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!

This allows the federal government to DICTATE and CONTROL States, and by extension, their Populations!

Any Ron Paul supporters out there? He is one of the most honest and straightforward politicians you will find in America. He publicly acknowledges the DEVIOUS and MANIPULATIVE powers and purposes of the FEDERAL RESERVE... a quasi-private-public "partnership" between Washington, DC and powerful Bankers.

Income Tax has just as devious and manipulative motives, that you are just as ignorant of... and they LIKE IT THAT WAY!

"Just keep swallowing the government issued Kool Aid and you will be fine, and in complete compliance!"

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Last edited by CraigMaxim on Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:06 am, edited 5 times in total.

#108250 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:37 am
Phil,sorry man, CRAIG is right and when you try to stand up to truth, the views you have don't have alot of validity. You have not offered any proof to back your ideolgical values.
Maybe Craig is wrong about your personal finances, but you sound more and more like someone who condones theft.

The proggresive commies that think they have control of America are in for a big shock. You would be in for a bigger shock when you find out they dont give a flying hoot about you.
Proggresive commies also believe that theft is ok. If you have the balls ask Craig, I am sure he can give us all a great history lesson in what happens when theft becomes legal.

Actually ,he could write a book,,, starting with woodrow wilson and the beggining of the GREAT DEPPRESION. It all started with the idea that stealing is ok. Just ask rythm man if it is ok to steal one of his songs,,,,you want to see nuclear war.

#108251 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:40 am
Yeah Craig , Im starting to see his value. He is going to make a great VP for SARAH. :)

#108257 by CraigMaxim
Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:04 am
GLENJ wrote:Yeah Craig , Im starting to see his value. He is going to make a great VP for SARAH. :)


Who? Ron Paul?

That would be an interesting ticket! :D

Cause Ron would push for libertarian values and change the way the Federal Reserve operates! And Sarah, would keep us safe, and help us remain a superpower, maintaining our military might, as a "check" against dictators and communist nations, from swallowing up countries one by one.

I like alot of Libertarian ideals, but they are extreme where the political philosophy of ISOLATIONISM is concerned. "If it doesn't happen within our own borders, then it doesn't really affect us." Only the world doesn't really operate that way, and we are a part of a global economy now.

#108259 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:08 am
You know Craig,, Most of the value we talk about directly effect all musicians ,painters , and writers of books ,and all artists everywhere.

If anyone is offended please , just dont get involved. I think these discussions help to keep this site alive and the do have importance in understanding why bar owners cant afford to pay more than they were thirty years ago.

I have tried to make comments that all musical in nature,, but I get tired of talking about broken strings on stage. Spend the five bucks , break them in for a half hour and then go out and play without fear of string breakage...[THAT WAS FOR CHIPPY]

Other than that I love to hear all the wonderfull music you do share and I do take the time to listen to as much as I can.

By the way Craig, that new guy Klugmo just needs a bit of polish ,and you got a brother.
YALL KEEP PLAYIN.

#108263 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:17 am
[that means he is almost at your level and thats a pretty high bar]

#108269 by CraigMaxim
Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:38 am
GLENJ wrote:[that means he is almost at your level and thats a pretty high bar]



Thanks brother!


That's quite the compliment!

And I agree... Klugmo is quite talented. And one thing I love about this forum, is there are ALOT of really talented people on here! I wish I lived around about 4 or 5 of them!

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#108275 by CraigMaxim
Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:21 am



Phil,

I am sorry.


It's not really about you, personally. When you vocalize attitudes, that to me, are damaging and threatening to our future and freedom, I just ZONE IN on it... I am fighting the ATTITUDE, and how people are FORGETTING how we got this far in the first place, and became the power we are. You just have a bullseye on your head, when you stand up and vocalize it all. In that moment, you represent all of it, this error in judgement of so many, who are being BRAINWASHED and MANIPULATED to believe the real battle is something other than what it truly is.

Forgive me, for making you the poster boy, for all of it.

You are right... I should not make it "PERSONAL".

Most people are focused on their personal circumstances... especially now, in the midst of a global recession. But I have, for decades. thought about and investigated things, on a world scale. The problems we are having economically, will seem like meaningless child's play, very shortly.

What's coming is TRULY epic.

I feel the urgency of it, spiritually, and I never feel like I am doing enough, to help prepare others for it.

But everything in it's proper time.

#108276 by CraigMaxim
Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:42 am



Learn to read between the lines everyone!

Case in point:

The 2010 Nuclear Summit


Who has thought, much about this, since it happened? How many aren't even aware of what I am talking about?

This was planned less than 6 months after Obama took office.

Leaders of 47 nations met in Washington DC on April 12th.

Security was as strong as it was for Obama's inauguration.

To put this in perspective... it was the largest gathering of world leaders, since the FOUNDING OF THE U.N. - 38 of the 47 sent HEADS OF STATE to represent their nations.

This was not a feel good meeting.

This was HUGELY SERIOUS, which means there are supremely important... and TIMELY, issues, that these leaders are aware of, and YOU are not! Something is very wrong. This is an attempt to avert it, or at least prepare for it, or lessen it's blow.

47 Nations.

This was put together in the blink of an eye, politically speaking, for something so massive. Imagine... the schedules of that many world leaders. Each having things to walk away from in their own countries, including emergencies, disasters, celebrations, elections, etc...

Read between the lines!

Keep watch!


#108298 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:18 am
You know Craig,, all I can say is thank you , for sticking your neck out and having the courage to stick to your truths. [you are not alone by any means]
I have seen some other sites where the political BS is just crazy.[outright theft is the norm, stealing is good, killing is good,control is most important,people are stupid,etc, etc, etc,]
At least here the bottom line is dealing with a bunch of GREAT musicians.

I think you and I are just trying to keep folks informed ,and God knows you do a much better job than I could ever.

#108304 by philbymon
Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:37 pm
This is the "free" economic system that made possible the robber barons, which I equate to the modern-day super corp. Just because there are more ppl reaping (raping) the profits makes no real difference in the end. The only difference is there are now a handful of rich instead of one guy.

These mega corp's need to be held in check. I don't give a flying f*ck HOW you feel about it, or how "free" you think they should be to wipe out the small businessman, or limit our choices, or control our personal actions, or decide the market price for goods; when one or two or even five co's have that much power, they have too much power.

When you add the buying of elected officials into the equation, you have us all becoming slaves to THIER rule, & once they rule us through economics, none of us are really free ppl.

You can admire thier money-savvy ways all that you want to, but I will continue to maintain that "capitalist slavery" is no better than communist or socialist or even the more traditional types. I will speak out against it at every opportunity, & vote for those who would fight against it like I would, had I the power in gov't to do so.

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