General Music Chat

Now hold on a minute...
I said "Flat Tax" - now discuss it, dammit.

I will not be ignored!!

First off, how do you arrive at that "tax rate by percentage?" Show me the math involved, please.

Craig is right. On my best year, which was last year, I made a little less than $52,000 gross pay. So I fall into the 28% tax range which means that I paid $14,560 in taxes out of my paycheck alone. Just thought that I'd throw that in there as an example. As you make more money, the percentage of what you are taxed actually goes up.

And lastly...The Obama administration = SOCIALISM!!!

DO...NOT...WANT!!!

Now hold on a minute...
I said "Flat Tax" - now discuss it, dammit.

I will not be ignored!!

A flat tax is more fair than the current graduated tax rates, although maybe not to those below middle class.

Personally, I am for the "FAIR TAX".

Which is a consumption based tax (sales tax) and eliminates income taxes, capital gains taxes, corporate taxes, estate taxes, etc... And, after 3 years ELIMINATES THE IRS!

Some proposed positive effects, if implemented:

(source: wikipedia)

Americans For Fair Taxation states the FairTax would boost the United States economy and offers a letter signed by eighty economists, including Nobel Laureate Vernon L. Smith, that have endorsed the plan.[13] The Beacon Hill Institute estimated that within five years real GDP would increase 10.7% over the current system, domestic investment by 86.3%, capital stock by 9.3%, employment by 9.9%, real wages by 10.2%, and consumption by 1.8%.[50] Arduin, Laffer & Moore Econometrics projected the economy as measured by GDP would be 2.4% higher in the first year and 11.3% higher by the 10th year than it would otherwise be.[48] Economists Laurence Kotlikoff and Sabine Jokisch reported the incentive to work and save would increase; by 2030, the economy’s capital stock would increase by 43.7% over the current system, output by 9.4%, and real wages by 11.5%.[11] Economist John Golob estimates a consumption tax, like the FairTax, would bring long-term interest rates down by 25–35%.[62] An analysis in 2008 by the Baker Institute For Public Policy indicated that the plan would generate significant overall macroeconomic improvement in both the short and long-term, but warned of transitional issues.[52]

FairTax proponents argue that the proposal would provide tax burden visibility and reduce compliance and efficiency costs by 90%, returning a large share of money to the productive economy.[4] The Beacon Hill Institute concluded that the FairTax would save $346.51 billion in administrative costs and would be a much more efficient taxation system.[63] Bill Archer, former head of the House Ways and Means Committee, asked Princeton University Econometrics to survey 500 European and Asian companies regarding the effect on their business decisions if the United States enacted the FairTax. 400 of those companies stated they would build their next plant in the United States, and 100 companies said they would move their corporate headquarters to the United States.[64] Supporters argue that the U.S. has the highest combined statutory corporate income tax rate among OECD countries along with being the only country with no border adjustment element in its tax system.[65][66] Proponents state that because the FairTax eliminates corporate income taxes and is automatically border adjustable, the competitive tax advantage of foreign producers would be eliminated, immediately boosting U.S. competitiveness overseas and at home.[67]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

Holy Cow, YOU DO HAVE A BIG C on your chest.
Thanx Craig. I am getting tired of explaining the trickle down results.
Taxes are VERY important to keep the corporation of the, USA ,STRONG.
Yes this country, is a corporation.
However suddenly the board of directors is not listening to the sharehaolders.
That is U.S. voters , most feel over or unfairly taxed,and to much is wasted.
I think the worst CORP in this country,at this point time, is our very own govt.
GZIPT ,dont feel left out,,, You are paying so many taxes just like everyone else. Especially the hidden ones that get passed on down the line.
That loaf of bread you payed 2 bucks for, it only cost 10 cents. You payed a hidden tax after profit of 1.50.
If anyone thinks they can help, The I.R.S.will allways gladly accept free will donations.

So sorry, Zip!

Flat tax is okay, in theory, but I still prefer the graduated tax. It isn't a punishment for making it, in my mind, like it is to so many. I think of it as giving back from your successes to the society that made it all possible.

It doea look more fair I'll admit.

Over all though, Americans are taxed far less than many other countries, & bitch more about it than anyone in the free world. I know I do.

Well, one rate for all would definitely eliminate the 'tax code dance' nonsense.
A lot of IRS people would be jobless though, so it will probably never happen.

Flat tax is okay, in theory, but I still prefer the graduated tax. It isn't a punishment for making it, in my mind, like it is to so many.

No, technically, it isn't a "punishment" for working harder and being more successful... It is instead... OUTRIGHT THEFT!!!

"Oh, that guy over there has more than some of us do, so we will just TAKE more of what he has!"

Can I assume that you also STEAL from your employers as well? Because THAT is the main justification for THEFT from employers... "They can afford to lose this anyway! They are a big company... I'll just TAKE these pens, and maybe some of those things too!"

The largest THEFT that occurs in this country, is... EMPLOYEE THEFT!

And... EVERYONE in America pays higher prices than necessary as a direct result, because this THEFT gets padded into prices of goods, to compensate for this loss!

Are you a thief?

You have NO OTHER REASON to justify taking MORE TAXES from someone wealthy, other than that YOU HAVE CRIMINAL TENDENCIES, and you feel JUSTIFIED in STEALING, because THEY HAVE MORE than YOU DO!

I think of it as giving back from your successes to the society that made it all possible.

What the F*CK are you talking about????????

GIVE "BACK" WHAT????

Were these people recipients of CHARITY or something?

HAVE YOU LOST YOUR F*CKING MIND, PHIL????

That is EXACTLY like saying...

"Well, the Johnsons next door, spent all day building a deck in their backyard, so... they should give some of that work back, and we'll make a law, which states that the Johnsons should also have to commit labor and resources to build a deck for someone else on the block. After all, you can't do that much more work than someone else, and not expect to have to work for them a little too!"

You do a lot of handi-work around the house?

Well then, you should be penalized for that... uhh... I mean "give back" to those WHO DO NOT do a lot of handiwork around their own houses. Let's say that for every 9 hours you spend on building and fixing things in YOUR house, you should, "BY LAW", be required to give 3 hours to your neighbors, whether they do any work on their own properties or not!

SOUND FAIR?


Seriously... you should be ASHAMED of yourself!

What right do YOU think YOU have, to DECIDE, how much of SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY they are "ALLOWED" to keep?

These people worked for the money they have. They sacrificed for it, or their parents did. They practiced DISCIPLINE in their lives, and reaped the rewards of their own hard work, and early hours!

Because someone spends 5 hours a day writing music, and you only spend 1 or less... when that person finally sells some songs from his considerable catalogue, do you expect that YOU should be entitled to a percentage of his music sales, because you worked less than he did?

Should we employ your sense of "fairness" in the Olympics?

If any runner spent more time practicing than the other runners, then we will ADD 30 SECONDS to his time, for every 5 minutes MORE he practiced than the other runners!

SOUND FAIR?


THE ARROGANCE!!!

Let me recall...

Oh yeah... "YOU" - "YOU" consider additional taxes on the wealthiest people, a form of GIVING BACK!

YOU consider (on their behalf) it giving back?


It isn't YOUR F*CKING MONEY to consider "anything" AT ALL!!!


THAT'S CALLED BEING A THIEF!

That is JUST LIKE a ROBBER spending his stolen goods in his mind, salivating, while he watches the TRUE OWNERS leave the house for their dinner out.

He's already SPENDING their money, in his mind.

As if it were, truly his, to do with, as he pleased!

You are spending OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY in your heart, that DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU!!! You did not do a F*CKING THING to help that person become wealthy. Did you work for him? You got paid, and the government DEMANDED BY LAW, that you get a reasonable price for your work.

THAT WAS NOT CHARITY!!!

You worked. You got paid.

END OF STORY!


As previously mentioned, it is not even fair that the wealthy should be taxed MORE as they get richer. On the contrary, they should be taxed by SMALLER PERCENTAGES, as their incomes rise! Because they ARE ALREADY paying INFINTELY more in taxes THAN YOU ARE, and yet NOT RECEIVING MORE SERVICES THAN YOU for the privilege!

If nothing else, try and justify that!

Why should a wealthier person be FORCED to pay more money than you, and yet NOT RECEIVE a greater number of services in return for his additional tax burden?

*NOTE: I rewrote this entire thing, as it was filled with some very, very choice language and insults.

THEFT OF OTHER'S WORK, MONEY OR PROPERTY... REALLY, REALLY... PISSES ME OFF!!!

And I am shocked that ANYONE (but a thief) condones it!

Well, one rate for all would definitely eliminate the 'tax code dance' nonsense.
A lot of IRS people would be jobless though, so it will probably never happen.

Under the FAIR TAX plan, they would be given 3 years, before the IRS was closed... some jobs would be transferred, but that is THREE YEARS to find other employment.

There is no gaurantee in the private sector either.

3 years seems more than reasonable.

Made that much huh?
Wanna trade? I don't think you could? Man if I had just one other dollar to hear someone complain when they HAVE work and about the SYSTEM I'll blow a circuit.
I'm not telling anyone what I earned last year because its an insult to humanity in America! Yes I have an Internet connection which allows me to be here, of course.

I use every means to get my stuff out and that means walking through Linux day by day but please sing another song. I'm very fortunate yet even now. When things really get tough don't come banging at my door. The drop for you is a long one compared to my compassionate existence.

Twice I've seen red today.

Craig is right. On my best year, which was last year, I made a little less than $52,000 gross pay. So I fall into the 28% tax range which means that I paid $14,560 in taxes out of my paycheck alone. Just thought that I'd throw that in there as an example. As you make more money, the percentage of what you are taxed actually goes up.

And lastly...The Obama administration = SOCIALISM!!!

DO...NOT...WANT!!!

I hope I wasn't really offensive, but guys... this is one of those really serious issues, I get worked up over! We can destroy what makes OPPORTUNITIES so abundant here, by STEALING the hard work and self-disciple of others, for our own TEMPORARY gains!

We are ALREADY chasing businesses out of this nation as it is!

Time to REVERSE this trend, and get back to being a profitable nation again!

" C"

For president.

Did I ever say this?
Perhaps not.
But excuse me if I say....


TWATS.

Ok I'm done.
I'm near the 500 mark which means Chippy goes. Constant renewal and all that GOOD stuff. What I read here is total anti government diatribe frankly. I don't think it would really matter WHAT government was in power at all!!!!!!!!!!!!

In any case I am a musician, a composer, a writer (Not the writer) I miss him, at least he was fun. You here can judge me, I know you will, you do it very well. When doom comes and it will for us all on our water bound planet. (at least for now). I hope everyone remembers the roles that THEY have stated that are THE best course for people like me, our race and others like me may be remembered?

I am the Chipfryer residing on that damned ship lollipop, course set and true, a wake set in place and a headstone that will never last the time. But she's a good ship again now, (I'm surprised!) All lights are on, navigation good, at last............. we are home bound.

Ah there goes another one! Damn this thing is quick!

ok