General Music Chat

Well their ya go.

Instead of intellectual realization that not all people are either good or bad, this moron wants names of the guilty parties.

I am a bigot because I say some people of all races are unjust ?

You sir, are a moron.


End of attempt at intellectual conversation.

I didn’t think you would be able to cite any facts regarding your ‘Jewish merchants’. As an avid scholar of history, you are aware, of course, that Jews were forced into becoming merchants because they were denied entry into the Guilds, right?


‘Intellectual’ conversation? Hardly. You spouted your bigoted views, and simply could not defend them. Instead, you prefer the ad hominem attack. What’s next, threats of violence? That would fit the pattern.


Being labeled a ‘moron’ by someone of your ilk should be worn as a badge of honor.

Yeah, it's analogous to being called anti-semetic by someone of your great stature, who knows me so well, too, 90db.

Yeah, it's analogous to being called anti-semetic by someone of your great stature, who knows me so well, too, 90db.

What more do I need to know than this?


“There are reasons for ppl to be hated.”


The main reasons people are hated are fear and ignorance. What are your reasons?

I'm not prejudiced, I hate all people equally.

Just kidding guys.

Yes I start my share of sh*t because I think it's important to discuss these issues. Most people on this forum have wildly different opinions but for the most part we try to keep it civil and respectful. I just wish the rest of the country could do the same.

Fear & ignorance don't cover it all, & certainly don't cover a 4,000 year period. Certainly someone would have found themselves able to live with them in that time, don't you think?

I think we've done okay by them, for the most part. They've lived & thrived here.

I don't see that many fearful ppl hating them.

I DO see that they hold themselves apart, as I tried to explain earlier, but you seem to have chosen to ignore that explanation. They also tend to take care of themselves, first, & the community at large, second. This tight clan-ness would tend to put a lot of ppl off, don't you think?

However, you go right ahead & pick & choose quotes from me to "prove" your point - that I am anti-semetic. It's your perfect right, I suppose, but it doesn't MAKE you right. DO keep that in mind.

I stand by my remarks, & hold that they are not anti-semetic. Your assessment of my character means less than nothing to me, since you know me not at all, & after hearing what you have to say, I really see no need to get to know you, since you're so anxious to pre-judge me over a few words on a public forum.

"Actually, there never was any such thing as “Palestine”. It was a Roman bastardization of the word “Philistine”. "

Tell that to the Palestinians, buster. Thier country was called "Palestine," for whatever reason you want to come up with. It most certainly DID exist, prior to 1948. You are a font of misinformation, aren't you?

Better go look up some more "facts," before you come here & read anyone the riot act. What & who the heck are you, anyway?

Fear & ignorance don't cover it all, & certainly don't cover a 4,000 year period. Certainly someone would have found themselves able to live with them in that time, don't you think?

I think we've done okay by them, for the most part. They've lived & thrived here.

I don't see that many fearful ppl hating them.

I DO see that they hold themselves apart, as I tried to explain earlier, but you seem to have chosen to ignore that explanation. They also tend to take care of themselves, first, & the community at large, second. This tight clan-ness would tend to put a lot of ppl off, don't you think?

However, you go right ahead & pick & choose quotes from me to "prove" your point - that I am anti-semetic. It's your perfect right, I suppose, but it doesn't MAKE you right. DO keep that in mind.

I stand by my remarks, & hold that they are not anti-semetic. Your assessment of my character means less than nothing to me, since you know me not at all, & after hearing what you have to say, I really see no need to get to know you, since you're so anxious to pre-judge me over a few words on a public forum.

"Actually, there never was any such thing as “Palestine”. It was a Roman bastardization of the word “Philistine”. "

Tell that to the Palestinians, buster. Thier country was called "Palestine," for whatever reason you want to come up with. It most certainly DID exist, prior to 1948. You are a font of misinformation, aren't you?

Better go look up some more "facts," before you come here & read anyone the riot act. What & who the heck are you, anyway?

Either you are delusional, or ignorant of the meaning of the word. Maybe this will help:



an·ti-Sem·ite   [an-tee-sem-ahyt, an-tahy- or, especially Brit., -see-mahyt] Show IPA
–noun
a person who discriminates against or is prejudiced or hostile toward Jews.



an·ti–Sem·i·tism
Pronunciation: \ˌan-tē-ˈse-mə-ˌti-zəm, ˌan-ˌtī-\
Function: noun
Date: 1882
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group.




I did not enter this thread with the goal of assessing your ‘character’, such as it is. I just find it difficult to stand by and watch an entire people be denigrated. As Edmund Burke said: “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”


You see, I believe that bigotry is insidious, and should be exposed every time it rears it’s ugly head. If left unchecked, it often leads to pogroms and gas chambers.

Thanks for these comments! I feel the same way! And I agree with you, I really think that it is anti-semitism, whether some understand that or not! But I think there is a spiritual aspect to this as well. It seems you are on one side of this, or decidedly on the other.

I think some people, just find it NEAT or COOL, to be on the OTHER SIDE of the issue... hey look at me... I disagree... I think the Jews deserve their fate... what about the poor radical Muslims that have to blow themselves up to get attention?

But it's just ignorance of history, that allows that view.

And the scary thing, as you rightly point out, is that forgetting our past, often dooms us to repeating it.

The last place I would expect to find such rabid anti-Semitism is on a music forum, but there it is.

Oh, I know; it’s the same as “I support the troops, but not the war”. “I hate Israel, but not the Jews”.



“The Palestinians have as much right to be PO'd as anyone on the planet. Thier country was ripped from under them & given to a ppl who treated them badly, took thier homes & stripped them of thier jobs. They were forcibly moved into ghettos.”


Actually, there never was any such thing as “Palestine”. It was a Roman bastardization of the word “Philistine”.


http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_ ... origin.php



“There is cause to think that some of the jewish plight was brought upon them by thier own actions.”


“The best thing that happened to them as a ppl was being run out of thier lands, & being forced to live under the rule of other, more civilized ppls, imho. They became civilized by necessity, & began to integrate into societies, to a degree. They always kept themselves separate, though, & this, too, brought a bit of that "plight" down upon them.”



That diatribe could have come from the pen of Dr. Goebbels himself.


Santayana was right. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Since I started this thread I will steer it back on course: there is evidence that Israel stole British citizen's ID's (passports) and used them to create bogus ones for the intent purpose of assasination. We cannot condone this behaviour, even if there is suspicion that own government has done the same. They must be punished, and the thing they will understand best is cutting off or reducing the amount of aid we send them. This is not anti-semitism, it's just common sense.

So, you're saying that by prejudging me, you want to send me to the gas chambers?

YOU seem to be rather prejudiced against the Palestinians (who, I suppose, don't exist!) to me.

There's more than enough hatred to go around, bub. I don't hate or fear the jews. I don't like what I see from the gov't of Israel. That makes me an anti-semite?

I stated that there are certain traits within the race. Perhaps that makes me a racist, I don't know & I don't care. I can only see what is shown me. I do not handle them or treat them any differently than I do anyone else. I observe what I observe, however.

I also see certain traits usually present in ppl of the christian faith. Does that make me anti-christian? Allow me to tell you what I see.

They have this whole "us vs, them" mentality, when it comes to other faiths. They have a certain disdain for nature, due, I think, to the bible saying that the world was made for man, & thus they do not need to be a part of nature. They can exploit it. They have this irritating habit of telling ppl that they will go to hell if they don't follow the christian path, & seem rather big-headed about it all when faced with others.

Now, that certainly doesn't apply to all christians, does it? It does, however, make up my view of them, as a single unified entity.

I have found my own path, & will stick to it as strongly as you do yours.

In matters of religion, though, I find that ppl often take it to extremes, & would exclude ppl that dont' follow thier path, not just from thier churches, but from having the same rights & opportunities as they have. There is a certain bigotry & feeling of entitlement inherent in all the Abrahamic religions, & a certainty that I find ridiculous, esp when it's applied to other ppl of other faiths. I don't see this in some of the eastern faiths.

I can certainly live & let live, but when your religion, or someone else's, would trespass on my right to achieve, or do what is right in my faith, then I become as angry as anyone else in the face of that bigotry.

I see the Abrahamic religions doing that more than any other, & that's why, more than any other reason, that I would choose something else.

As far as how I treat ppl, I'll give any man, christian or jew or moslem or buddhist or hindi or what have you, the same chances. If they flook me over, I don't apply it to the whole of thier religion, either. I see them as being a human of less stature or character, & move on.

Instead of intellectual realization that not all people are either good or bad, this moron wants names of the guilty parties.

He's asking you for EVIDENCE to back up your statements.

Seems fair to me.

Gee, 90db, you are about as astute as the average bear, aren't ya?

I love how you are so quick to label ppl without even knowing them.

Get over yourself. Read more about what I & others say before you go throwing out names like "Goebels."

It's pretty obvious you don't know a damned thing about any of us.

Your antisemitic remarks speak for themselves, just as your SEXIST remarks, before these. You "ARE" a bigot, and a sexist! It comes through your comments just fine.

In all honestly Phil, I wrote some very nasty comments, because your ignorance and bias angered me so much. I changed my responses last night, 3 times... 3 TIMES, before getting it toned down.

Your lack of sympathy toward the plight of the Jews, the reality of which is WELL ATTESTED throughout history, is DETESTABLE. Simply DETESTABLE!

You wouldn't make the same statements about blacks, or Native Americans, and that shows the ANTISEMITIC nature of your heart on all this.

Black slaves were sold to traders, by their own leaders... I suppose that means they deserved their fate too, for not overthrowing their leaders in Africa?

Native Americans were given SOVEREIGN LAND to allow them to remain in their native land, and maintain the culture and traditions they practiced here for thousands of years. According to your logic, this was a mistake too. The Native Americans should have just been evicted and kept out, right?


And I'm really surprised at you Sans!

Just remember, Christians are next... it's happening AS WE SPEAK!

It's pretty obvious that you have a huge emotional investment in your beliefs, Craig, & it colors your responses with broad strokes.

Perhaps you should limit yourself to those subjects that don't end up making you look like an over-emotional child, & leave these types of discussions to the adults who can control themselves.

It IS funny, though. When I call for a return to traditional sexual roles, you say that makes me a sexist, & not a conservative. When I say that I don't like the way the state of Israel handles it's domestic affairs, that makes me anti-semetic, & not someone who sees something that he believes needs addressed. When I call for fairness in other areas, I'm a "bleeding heart liberal."

Craig, if you took out your labels & names, & your self-promoting explanations for why & what & who you are, 2/3 of your arguments would not even exist.

Quit pointing your pointy fingers at us all when we don't believe as you do.

Do you really believe that I am anti-semetic? Do you think I hate jews? Do you think I hate women? Do you think I have that much hate in my system? REALLY?

For the record, I don't particularly like ANY of the Abrahamic relifions. I think I've made that patently clear. That in no way means that I am against your being able to practice your faith, or believe what you would. I just dislike the christians as much as I do the jews as much as I do the moslems, as religious groups.

I DO, however, try to be fair when dealing with any of the practitioners of these religions, & I don't think I'm seeing any of that from you. I also try to be fair with ppl before I make any generalizations about them. For example, when I discover someone is a jew, I don't immediately leap to conclusions about thier personality or thier character, based upon that little tidbit of information. Likewise, with christians & moslems. In fact, due to thier prevalence in this society, I just assume that everyone I meet is probably a christian, & go from there until I hear otherwise.

To not like a religion, or the history of its ppl, is not tantamount to being a racist or religionist, if you will. It's in how one treats ppl that matters, at least to me.

You bark & howl a lot over your favorite minorities & oppressed groups, but belittle others for doing the same thing when they see others oppressed. Yes, I'm still saying that the Palestinians have been oppressed for the last 62 years, by the Big Three, & by the ppl that rule the country at the present. I'm sorry if you cannot see that oppression, but it doesn't make me a racist to note that which I'm seeing & finding reprehensible.

The fact that I don't particularly care about whatever version of history you'd like to dredge up about the jews doesn't make me anti-semetic, either. When I come to conclusions about a ppl, it's based upon the same things that yours are - what I see, hear & read about them. The jews aren't your touchie-feelie wonderful group of ppl, anymore or less than thier opposition - the christians or the moslems. All three religions deserve my disgust, as far as I'm concerned, for thier histories, & for the way they apply those inherent traits thier respective faiths today, as well, as groups of ppl.

Your knee-jerk emotional responses notwithstanding, YOU are, as far as I can see, quite the racist, or religionist, yourself, when you refuse to admit the wrongs done to a ppl when they're plainly visible, & say things like "so what? The jews had that kind of treatment & worse for 4,000 years," or whatever.

Instead of intellectual realization that not all people are either good or bad, this moron wants names of the guilty parties.

He's asking you for EVIDENCE to back up your statements.

Seems fair to me.

How much more evidence do you need Craig ?? Look around !!

My statement was simple.

There are unjust people of all races whom take advantage of there fellow men.

Of course now that I've been educated I can say all races except the Jews.

"If you are aware of history as well as you claim you would realize that in the antebellum era ( post WWI ) many of the Jewish merchants whom had international contacts took great advantage of their non Jewish German fellow citizens."




That was the statement that I was asking you to cite proof of. Still waiting.


By the way, you might want to look up the meaning of "antebellum".