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#104656 by jw123
Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:51 pm
jimmydanger wrote:Bravo John! That is the American way. However, I don't think anyone minds if you state your mind here. Done respectfully it is a good thing.



Jimmy my point is that everyone that has issues here would stop wasting time posting their problems on this board about an issue and start putting that energy into letting thier representatives in government know, something might actually happen. I alwasy hear people say my vote doesnt count, well at this point in time its all you have.

I often wonder how many people on here actually vote? I bet half the people bitching on here dont even vote! In my opinion if you dont vote you gave up any right to bitch.

Just think if you took all the message boards and forums that are talking about health care and mobilized them to send their messages to members of congress, or just somehwere that matters, something might actually start to change.

#104657 by CraigMaxim
Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:56 pm
jw123 wrote:
I often wonder how many people on here actually vote?



I VOTE!!! :-)

Image


jw123 wrote:I bet half the people bitching on here dont even vote! In my opinion if you dont vote you gave up any right to bitch.



AMEN!


jw123 wrote:Just think if you took all the message boards and forums that are talking about health care and mobilized them to send their messages to members of congress, or just somehwere that matters, something might actually start to change.



But I think the Tea Party and the Coffee Party are part of that effort. People "ARE" mobilizing... and this is a GOOD THING!

But it's also how Civil Wars get started sometimes! :shock:

#104668 by jw123
Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:50 pm
Bravo for you Craig!

I have sent a ton of messages about my side of the health care equation to my representatives in Washington and also to my State representatives and senators.

You are right there is a groundswell of people getting activated to do something.

As a taxpayer Im paying aorund 40 cents on every dollar I earn these days. I ask my accountant about this and say whats the solution, he says earn more money! What happens when folks like me get to a point they dont want to pay anymore and just quit! I know everyones situation is different and I do feel every citizen should recieve care. But in the end I dont totally understand what this legislation is going to do for me or my business's. In the end what will it cost us? I have to increase the margins on the goods I sell to cover this cost and then the customer gets hit with more taxes on the other end, so in short it is going to be a double whammy to my customers. Obama signed it so it is what it is, and people in my position have to deal with the fallout, whatever that may be!

I often wonder what it would save to just shut down the federal government for a couple of years. I mean send everyone home and let the laws that are in effect have thier effect on the economy.

In the end all I can say to fellow bandmixers, if it really matters to you get involved in politics on a local level and let yourself be heard. Winning a battle on here just to get yout point across is in short pointless.

Everyone have a Great Day and Smile!

#104676 by Robin1
Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:35 pm
Great quote by someone on FB:

"Arguing with a fool proves there are two."










Bet people think that they are the ones arguing with a fool. Either way....... :lol:

#104680 by ryckykay86
Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:46 pm
5 Overblown Fears About Healthcare Reform



Buzz up! 1735

Print
Rick Newman, On Monday March 22, 2010, 4:22 pm EDT

In Washington, everybody knows about unintended consequences: the outcomes you fail to anticipate when you change the way something works. But there's another phenomenon that works somewhat in reverse: Preregulatory paranoia, or the fear that new rules meant to make the system better will instead produce mayhem and disaster.

It will be a long time before we know whether the historic healthcare reform finally passed by Congress will make the system better or worse. But the rhetoric surrounding the yearlong ordeal has already set new standards for overwrought fearmongering. There's a long history of pre-emptive hyperbole in Washington, in which the combatants on each side of an issue paint a dismal scenario if things don't go their way. But the dire predictions almost never materialize. Businesses adjust. Lawyers find loopholes. Lobbyists get new rules watered down. Entrepreneurs come up with better ways to make money, regardless of constraints. And if the new rules really do fail, we have this little process called electoral politics to make sure the government responds to voters' concerns.

[See 7 stressors sapping the middle class.]

Still, the overheated claims and counterclaims about healthcare reform have produced widespread confusion about what the new legislation will actually do. Here are a few of the most overblown concerns:

The government will take over one sixth of the economy. That would be alarming if it were true. But government involvement in healthcare will increase gradually over time and remain modest, especially since there's no "public option" in the current plan that would set up a government-run insurer. If you have doubts, consider the attitude of professional investors, who would stand to lose a lot if the government took over healthcare. They don't exactly seem worried. Shares of health insurers like Aetna, UnitedHealth, Wellpoint, and Cigna--subject to the strongest new rules under reform--have outperformed the stock market over the past year. The pharmaceutical and hospital industries also are considered winners because there will be millions of new customers who suddenly have insurance that can pay for treatment. That led the entire stock market higher the day after reform passed. In fact, it's hard to identify any part of the private-sector healthcare industry that stands to lose under reform.

The federal debt will explode. It might, but not because of healthcare reform. The Congressional Budget Office--which is probably the most reliable, nonpartisan number-crunching outfit in Washington--says the reforms will reduce government deficits by $143 billion through 2019, thanks to new taxes and fees and cost savings in government healthcare programs like Medicare. But opponents of the bill and powerful lobbying groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce say otherwise, and they seem to have had a stronger influence on public opinion than CBO's methodical analysis. A recent poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation, for example, found that 55 percent of Americans mistakenly believe the CBO has said the healthcare legislation will add to the deficit. Only 15 percent know that CBO has said the opposite.

[See 21 things we're learning to live without.]

Doctors will revolt. Doctors don't like the current system, in which insurance companies call the shots. But instead of sweeping reform and more government involvement, they prefer gradual reform that puts more control in the hands of ... doctors. In one recent survey, nearly one third of physicians said they'd consider leaving medicine if reform passes, which it now has. Doctors worry that the new rules will cut into their incomes--which may happen, eventually. But it's implausible that thousand of doctors who have dedicated years to a complex profession will simply quit. What will they do? Become accountants? Open a Subway franchise? Besides, with millions of new patients seeking care, the demand for doctors will actually rise, not decline. And if cost controls discourage the docs who are in it to get rich, maybe that will help bring costs down for everybody else. Meanwhile, the American Medical Association and dozens of other physicians' lobbying groups will continue to look out for doctors' interests in Washington.

Businesses will suffer. The new rules will impose fees on businesses with more than 50 employees if their workers receive government subsidies to buy insurance in lieu of employer-provided coverage. Business groups complain that this could stunt economic growth and slow hiring. But businesses are more resourceful than that. It's true that many companies will have to absorb additional costs, which they do every year anyway when health insurance premiums go up. But well-run companies excel at solving problems. That's what makes them successful. Smart entrepreneurs salivate at the chance to outcompete bigger firms that can't manage challenges like this. And companies already pass on the rising costs of healthcare to their employees; there's no reason to expect that will change if they can't manage costs some other way. There's also an outside chance that the new insurance exchanges will make life easier for small businesses, as intended, by giving their workers a way to buy coverage at rates comparable to what big companies are able to negotiate.

[See 8 sneaky ways to raise taxes.]

Socalized medicine is on the way. In the Kaiser poll, 41 percent of respondents said they believe the new law would require people who already get insurance through their employer to change their coverage. But most people who already have health coverage won't have to change anything, unless they want to. The new rules will have the most direct impact on people who don't have coverage, or who don't get it through an employer. Those who fear the advent of "socialized medicine" mainly seem to worry that the current set of reforms is just Phase 1, to be followed by bigger changes that will replace doctors with bureaucrats and render individual patients even more powerless than they are now. This is supposed to happen despite the likelihood that the Democrats who supported reform will lose seats in the November elections, while Republicans who opposed reform will gain seats. It seems much more likely that after surviving the battles of the last year, the current for-profit healthcare industry will be with us for the foreseeable future.

#104681 by ryckykay86
Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:47 pm
Health Care Reform: 8 Positive Changes

By Stacy Johnson

Mar 22, 2010 6:01 pm



Unless you’ve been living in a cave, you know the health care reform debate has been long, loud and contentious. But now that it’s over, whatever side you were on, there are positives for your future health insurance in this reform. Although many of these changes won’t be happening until years after the final bill is signed into law, exploring them now might make those opposed to the bill feel better about it.

Start by watching the following news story, then meet me on the other side for more.



So let’s go over those eight points again, this time with a little more detail.

Positive change number one: Fewer uninsured Americans should lead to a lower-cost health care system.

The core of health care reform is helping (or forcing, depending on your point of view) 30+ million uninsured Americans find coverage. This is a direct and obvious benefit to them, but it should ultimately benefit all Americans since heath care provided to those without the ability to pay is a huge burden that resonates across the system in the form of higher costs on health care and its primary funding source, insurance.

If you don’t understand what I mean by that, check out a story I produced called “Killer Hospital Bills.” It’s about an uninsured woman who went into a hospital ER with abdominal pain and emerged with a bill for $12,000. While the size of the bill was big, the real story was that the exact same services would have been billed to a Medicare patient at $4,000 and to an insured patient at $5,000. When I interviewed the hospital CFO and asked about the discrepancy, his response was that since so many uninsured patients don’t pay at all, they’re forced to charge those that can exorbitant prices to recoup their losses.

That explanation is certainly shocking if you’re the uninsured patient facing a bill three times larger than a Medicare patient’s for the same services. On the other hand, it’s hard to blame the hospital. A store that loses millions of dollars a year to shoplifters is faced with a simple choice: charge paying customers more to recoup those losses or go belly-up. Hospitals that take patients who can’t pay (and they have to by law if a medical situation is life-threatening) are faced with the same choice: either charge those who can pay more or close their doors. Hospitals can’t charge either Medicare or insured patients more because those rates are negotiated in advance. So that leaves them with only one choice: to charge those patients who can least afford it… those without insurance… a lot more money for the same services.

Bottom line? Even if you’re an American who has health insurance and who doesn’t care at all about those who don’t, you should be happy with this bill or any other that radically reduces the ranks of the uninsured. Because any law that lowers the number of people who can’t pay should theoretically save the entire health care system a lot of money, which in turn should reduce not just the overall cost of health care, but ultimately the health insurance premiums of every American.

In addition, adding 30 million people to the overall pool of those insured means spreading the risk and expense of health care over a wider group. Over time, that should also lower the cost of coverage for all of us.

But don’t expect benefits overnight. The provision helping some Americans pay for health insurance and forcing others to (if you don’t have coverage, you can be fined up to $2,085, or 2.5% of your income) largely take place in 2014. And even then, it will be years later before we see potentially positive effects. Why couldn’t we get this key reform to take place sooner? One reason is that this legislation requires states to establish what are called American Health Benefit Exchanges: insurance pools that hope to harness increased competition to help lower prices. And establishing these exchanges will take time. Another possible reason we have to wait years is the same reason the C.A.R.D. Act didn’t go into effect immediately (thus allowing banks to raise their rates prior to enactment), because industry lobbyists wanted it that way. As the banks did when faced with laws reining in credit card abuses, expect insurance companies to attempt to make as much as possible in the years before many of these provisions become law.

Positive change number two: No more caps on coverage.

Six months after the president signs this bill, insurance companies will no longer be able to cap your coverage, either annually or over your lifetime. This is a big change, and one you’ll be happy with should you ever develop an illness that requires big bucks to address. Prior to this reform, insurance companies routinely employed lifetime caps of one to three million dollars. Which means if you spent more than that over your lifetime, you’d lose your coverage and be forced to pay every bill yourself, a virtual guarantee that you’d be bankrupt shortly thereafter.

While removing these caps could increase insurance company risk and exposure, costs that might be passed through to policyholders in the form of higher rates, it may well keep you or those who love you from going bankrupt should you run out of insurance before you run out of disease.

Positive change number three: Insurance companies can no longer refuse coverage based on preexisting medical conditions.

If you have an illness like cancer or diabetes, today, insurance companies can simply refuse to insure you, or turn you away by charging so much in premiums there’s no way you can afford to pay. Health care reform did away with that, or at least it will in 2014. Children are an exception: Six months after enactment, children can’t be turned down because of preexisting conditions.

Positive change number four: Keeping kids on their parent’s policy longer.

Under the new law, dependent children up to 26 years old can remain covered under their parent’s policy; twenty-one was more the norm before. Keeping kids on a parental policy is normally cheaper than insuring kids individually, and unlike the numerous provisions that wait until 2014, this one goes into effect six months after the bill becomes law.

Positive change number five: More employers will be offering coverage.

The idea behind this bill is to get as many people as possible to have health insurance. For those with no or low income, that means expanding medicare and offering subsidies to help them pay premiums. Households who earn up to 400% of the Federal Poverty Level of $22,050 will be eligible for some sort of assistance.

But when it comes to business, the government is employing both stick and carrot to encourage more to offer coverage. The stick: By 2014, employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2,000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. The carrot: While companies with fewer than 50 workers won’t face penalties if they don’t offer insurance, they can get tax credits if they do. For example, those with 25 or fewer employees and average annual worker pay of $40,000 can get tax credits of up to 35% of the cost of the premiums in 2010, rising to 50% in 2014. These tax credits are based on the size of the business and the average pay of their workers: the smallest companies with the lowest-paid workers will get the most tax credits.

Positive change number six: Free preventative health care.

Until health care reform, preventative care coverage… like annual physicals, for example… could be subject to deductible and co-pays. The new law says this type of care is going to be free: no co-pay, no out of pocket. The idea is that this will encourage people to seek assistance early and often, which should translate into big health problems and big bills being nipped in the bud.

Positive change number seven: A better appeals process.

It’s hard to understand the drive for things like health care reform if you’ve never been mistreated at the hands of an insurance company or done a story about someone who has. But take it from someone who’s been a consumer reporter for 20 years: There are insurance companies that deny coverage for no other apparent reason than they don’t feel like paying. Did you ever see the movie The Rainmaker? It features an insurance company whose policy includes systematically denying all claims. While I can’t say that’s a true story, I can definitely say that many insurance companies have acted in a manner that suggests they’re more interested in their profitability than the welfare of their policy holders.

Health care reform establishes a new, theoretically more independent and consumer-oriented appeals process. So if you do have a disputed claim, your odds of having it resolved fairly should increase.

Positive change number eight: Help for seniors.

Today’s Medicare patients have coverage for the first $2,700 they spend on drugs and for any amounts over $6,154. But they’re on their own for drug expenses in-between… known as the “donut hole”. Starting this year, Medicare recipients who fall in that hole will get $250, in 2011 they will get a 50% discount on brand-name drugs, and by 2020, the donut hole will be closed with 75% of drugs costs covered.

Eight positives: But at what cost?

When I’ve encountered people vehemently opposed to health care reform, it’s usually for one of three reasons. The first and most common is that they don’t really have a clue just what it’s about and are simply parroting some specious nonsense they’ve recently heard on a talk show.

The second is that they feel a free people shouldn’t be forced to buy health insurance or anything else. I agree. In my opinion, if a society has collectively decided that it’s immoral to let its poorer citizens get sick and die in the streets, the solution isn’t to subsidize insurance for the poor and force the rest to buy private health insurance from for-profit companies. The solution is for the government to supply health care, just as most developed countries in the world do and ours does for its citizens 65 and older.

But since we have a rabid minority who insist that government-run health care is tantamount to communism, this apparently isn’t an option today. So the next best choice is passing a law that makes private health insurance available to all so that those with preexisting medical conditions or those who are either too poor, greedy or uniformed to purchase insurance for themselves don’t become a financial drain on the rest of society.

The third common reason for opposition to health care reform is cost. A legitimate concern. Over the next 10 years the cost of this reform is expected to be just short of a trillion dollars. Way cheaper than the Iraq war, but still a lot of money. Where is it coming from?

· Fees on drug companies and insurers.

· An excise tax of 10% on overly generous health plans.

· A 2.9% tax on the sale of medical devices.

· A 3.8% tax hike in your Medicare payroll taxes and on your investment income if you make more than $250,000/yr.

· Fees on employers who don’t offer required coverage.

· Fees on people who don’t get mandated coverage.

· A 10 percent excise tax on tanning salons.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, these sources of revenue more than offset the $940 billion cost of health care reform. Not a penny coming from any individual taxpayer other than those who don’t comply or those that are making more than $250,000/yr. Granted, employers (especially large ones) will be forced to offer coverage and that could divert funds for other uses, like hiring more workers. But all in all, I just don’t see what the hubbub is about. These changes appear to benefit the poor and sick among us as well as society at large. The costs are largely borne by those who profit most from health care: drug companies, medical device companies and insurance companies.

Other than waiting years for the positive changes to take effect, what’s not to like?

#104684 by jimmydanger
Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:58 pm
Thanks for the interesting articles and stats Rycky. Now be prepared for the wrath of Glenny!

#104686 by philbymon
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:05 pm
Get over it, Zip. It was a remark aimed at Craig that I prolly shouldn't have said, but you'll have this when two ppl argue.

Go ahead & be PO'd all you want to, though, in spite of how I said I had not intended to offend.

You want an apology? Okay:

I

AM

SORRY

I

SAID

THAT

&

THAT

IT

OFFENDED

ZIP.

#104688 by jw123
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:10 pm
I love how folks can cut and paste pages of crap to back them up, but in the end Im interested in what it will do for me and what it will cost me, thats the selfesh side of me I guess and you are right it will take time to see how it really pans out.

Will my coverage be better or will I have to wait to get looked at when I have a health issue.

How much will I pay in taxes, plain and simple

How much will my business's have to pay over where we are now. Mine have provided health care since the late 80s, will we pay more, will we be forced into something we dont want.

Anyway Ive said way more than I should on this subject which aint much, dont know why I ever said anything.

#104689 by gtZip
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:10 pm
lol, OK
Apology accepted.

I'm a gettin over it!

Over reaction on my part?
Ya.

But I cant explain my brain lately.

#104691 by ryckykay86
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:17 pm
jw123 wrote:I love how folks can cut and paste pages of crap to back them up, but in the end Im interested in what it will do for me and what it will cost me, thats the selfesh side of me I guess and you are right it will take time to see how it really pans out.

Will my coverage be better or will I have to wait to get looked at when I have a health issue.

How much will I pay in taxes, plain and simple

How much will my business's have to pay over where we are now. Mine have provided health care since the late 80s, will we pay more, will we be forced into something we dont want.

Anyway Ive said way more than I should on this subject which aint much, dont know why I ever said anything.


i dont know y u said anything either....your view is extremely selfish indeed. u obviously are covered so heres a hypothetical situation...your son grows up and cant afford is own health insurance and gets cancer.....not that i would ever wish that on u or your son but wtf would he do then. did u bother to read the "crap" that was posted. u should care more for others well being, were all human, were all in this together. and hopefully ull be in a situation one day when ull have to rely on the support and kindness of a complete stranger and if your selfishness still remains i hope they dont piss on your burning body to put the flames out.

#104692 by ryckykay86
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:24 pm
hahaha and besides that maybe u should do more research on the topic. if your company already offers health insurance then nothing changes. those that dont get a tax break to afford it. ur coming off as just another ignorant individual that has done no research on the topic.

#104693 by ryckykay86
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:27 pm
and i apologize if i just came off as an asshole jw. i mean no disrespect.

#104694 by jw123
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:31 pm
ryckykay86 wrote:
jw123 wrote:I love how folks can cut and paste pages of crap to back them up, but in the end Im interested in what it will do for me and what it will cost me, thats the selfesh side of me I guess and you are right it will take time to see how it really pans out.

Will my coverage be better or will I have to wait to get looked at when I have a health issue.

How much will I pay in taxes, plain and simple

How much will my business's have to pay over where we are now. Mine have provided health care since the late 80s, will we pay more, will we be forced into something we dont want.

Anyway Ive said way more than I should on this subject which aint much, dont know why I ever said anything.


i dont know y u said anything either....your view is extremely selfish indeed. u obviously are covered so heres a hypothetical situation...your son grows up and cant afford is own health insurance and gets cancer.....not that i would ever wish that on u or your son but wtf would he do then. did u bother to read the "crap" that was posted. u should care more for others well being, were all human, were all in this together. and hopefully ull be in a situation one day when ull have to rely on the support and kindness of a complete stranger and if your selfishness still remains i hope they dont piss on your burning body to put the flames out.


Dude I have no beef with you. It just cracks me up when I see someone go to the trouble of posting all this crap and it is crap in my opinion. You can dig around and find things that counters everything youve said. leave it yup here long enough and Im sure someone will. You think what you posted is right jsut cause you posted it. I agree with what you say that we will not know how this truelly affects individuals til its been in place a few years. So what?

Take your passion for this issue and talk to folks that can do something about it, your elected officials. You think osmeone on here is going to do anything to help anyone but themselves? I mean really?

As far as pointing at me for being selfish, I freely admit that for my part Im selfish about how issues affect me. Thats right Im man enough to admit that. As far as how I care about others until youve walked in my shoes, you really have no way of knowing what Ive done for my fellow human being.

#104695 by jw123
Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:32 pm
So Ray Im selfish and ignorant! So what?

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