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#104444 by ColorsFade
Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:51 pm
CraigMaxim wrote:
Let me get your argument straight though...

"So what if I cheat on my wife... lots of people have affairs."

That about sum it up? ;-)



That doesn't sound anything like my argument Craig.

I certainly never cheated on my wife...


My point is - if you're just now getting upset about the hypocrisy of the folks on the hill, you're late to the game. Convenient for you of course, because it allows you to bash the Dems without giving a second thought to the Republicans.

#104445 by Sir Jamsalot
Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:01 pm
ColorsFade wrote:
CraigMaxim wrote:
Let me get your argument straight though...

"So what if I cheat on my wife... lots of people have affairs."

That about sum it up? ;-)



That doesn't sound anything like my argument Craig.

I certainly never cheated on my wife...


My point is - if you're just now getting upset about the hypocrisy of the folks on the hill, you're late to the game. Convenient for you of course, because it allows you to bash the Dems without giving a second thought to the Republicans.


Not wanting to put words into Craig's mouth, I think what his analogy means is that hypocrasy is not justified on the basis of others having gotten away with it. It is equally wrong for this administration to be hypocritical as it is with past administrations.

#104447 by ColorsFade
Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:38 pm
Chris4Blues wrote:
Not wanting to put words into Craig's mouth, I think what his analogy means is that hypocrasy is not justified on the basis of others having gotten away with it. It is equally wrong for this administration to be hypocritical as it is with past administrations.


Sigh...

That still doesn't invalidate my point.

Oh well, I should have learned by now to just give up on the folks on this board. It's my own fault for jumping into this thread.

#104454 by CraigMaxim
Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:10 pm
Chris4Blues wrote:
Not wanting to put words into Craig's mouth, I think what his analogy means is that hypocrasy is not justified on the basis of others having gotten away with it. It is equally wrong for this administration to be hypocritical as it is with past administrations.



Precisely. :-)

#104456 by philbymon
Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:28 pm
Uh huh. Did you rant about the Rep PARTY when they committed thier acts of hypocrisy, or did you just attack individuals, Craig?

You have a funny way of being "fair & balanced."

You gripe about the fact that the Dems said illegals don't hafta pay, when it's pretty damned clear to anyone who cares to look that we CANNOT MAKE THEM PAY, yet you call it "hypocrisy."

Meanwhile, your favorite girl, Palin, freely ADMITS to crossing the border for health care in Canada, as a child, even while she fights against our country getting its own health care system. You don't see the hypocrisy in THAT? She has clearly benefitted from a health care system that works for a neighboring country, ILLEGALLY, yet would deny that very thing for our own citizens, & all you can do is bitch about the Dems saying that illegals are exempt from paying thier bit into the system? Duh...did I mention that we can't make them pay? Do you really understand that?

Your priorities are way skewed, dude, & your preferences are clearly shown, in spite of whatever you may SAY about how "fair & balanced" you are. You're about as fair as Limbaugh (& about as balanced as Beck, if you think I'm gonna buy that. LOL)

#104457 by CraigMaxim
Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:36 pm
ColorsFade wrote:
My point is - if you're just now getting upset about the hypocrisy of the folks on the hill, you're late to the game. Convenient for you of course, because it allows you to bash the Dems without giving a second thought to the Republicans.



Not my heart at all.

This is why I voted (write in vote) for McCain during W's first election. I admire Bush Sr. as an intelligent capable man, who was very wise in his lobbying, and consultation with other governments, the U.N., and with Congress, during his one term as President. But being in bed with the Oil Companies and the Moonies (a wealthy and powerful cult with strong political connections) made me distrust him and resent him. When the Bush machine mounted a character assasination of John McCain, and questioned his sanity, having been a prisoner of war, for so many years, that distrust turned to DETEST and OUTRAGE!

How dare the Bush machine, turn on an American Hero who sacrificed his body to daily torture for MANY YEARS, in profound principle and character, and demean and defame his sacrifices for our nation.

I also am vehemently opposed to the corruption that exists, in ALL parties, due in part to the masses of money needed to elect officials to office, and how these same politicians are then betrothed to those who gave them the money. McCain has been a supporter of Campaign Finance Reform, for nearly his entire career, even in opposition to his own party many times.

I did not vote for Bush the first election, because of my detest of the Bush Family and who they are in bed with. I did vote for Bush the second time, because we were engaged in war, it could be detrimental to change leadership in the middle of such an effort, and show political disunity, as such a time.

As I have mentioned many numerous times, I tend to vote conservative, because I believe in the core values of Conservatism. Namely, low taxes, limited government, and a strong national defense.

As I have stated perviously as well, Democrats have done good for the country in many areas. I am sympathetic to many social aspects of Liberalism. The Democrats took charge in Civil Rights Legislation, and the Republicans would have been very unlikely to have done the same. But that legislation was crucial and necessary.

But right now, we have one of the most liberal Presidents we have ever had, and extreme ANYTHING is bad! For the most part, I believe the parties help balance one another out. I bet if you looked through our history, the times the country was most sound economically, was likely those times when Congress and the White House were divided between the parties. People feel that gridlock in Washington is bad, but it's probably more often GOOD, because it ties their hands from passing the extremem measures, either party could enact, if left to their own power.

For example, deregulation take to an extreme, causes problems, where corporate greed can affect us all poorly.

But extreme regulation is just as dangerous, as it stifles businees with unecessary regulations and tax burdens, that suffocated growth.

BALANCE.

We need BALANCE!

#104458 by CraigMaxim
Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:45 pm
philbymon wrote:
You gripe about the fact that the Dems said illegals don't hafta pay, when it's pretty damned clear to anyone who cares to look that we CANNOT MAKE THEM PAY, yet you call it "hypocrisy."




It's the hypocrisy of their POSITION on this Phil, don't you get that?

Why mention them at all?

Because it protects them.

I have always had friends from all over the world. I have been roomates with people of more cultures and religions, than ANYONE who posts here. I love people. I married an illegal alien. I worked with illegal aliens. I hung out with them, and did what I could for them. Most people come here for OPPORTUNITIES to work and help support their families in poorer nations. I have never had a problem with that fact. Terrorism changes that scenario. Illegal entry into this country is now a threat to our national security, as never before.

Old attitudes are no longer viable in this area.

The Democrats do not get this.

They are playing Russian Roulette with our economy and our lives.

We will pay a lofty price for both.

Keep watching. One of these issues is going to be disasterously apparent, very soon... probably this year. And the other, will keep our economy declining, progressively, particularly as more of these regulations go into effect in the coming 4 years.

#104460 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:08 pm
Craig, I think only JW brought up anything of valid thinking.
You and I can't win HERE. Let them all keep crying when a bar can only afford a hundred bucks to pay a band that practiced thousand of hours and more and all the hard work that goes with that,,,,,,,

#104461 by CraigMaxim
Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:10 pm
Dewy wrote:

A majority of Americans are OPPOSED to this bill.

But the Democrats passed it anyway!


Pardon me while I share some history with you.

The majority of American's were also against:
Civil Rights
Medicare
Social Security
World War 1 & 2



You aren't fully acurate on the World Wars. World War II did have the support of the American people, and World War I, gained support after the German U-Boat campaigns, where they began sinking American ships doing business with Great Britain.

Don't misunderstand me, to mean that popular opinion is "always" right. It is the very reason our founding fathers estabished our form of government as representative democracy, as opposed to a pure democracy.

But I think Americans should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding health care... you don't? Most Americans believe the health care system needs reforming, but they want a say, in how that "reform" takes place.

#104462 by philbymon
Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:26 pm
"It's the hypocrisy of their POSITION on this Phil, don't you get that?"

No, Craig, I don't "get that." I must be dim. I don't see what makes this hypocrisy worse than any other that's around, but it sure seems to bug the hell out of you. I just don't get what gets so deeply under your skin with this, & you haven't explained it well enough to me.

The entire gov't's "position" on the subject of illegals bugs the hell out of me, but I don't see this as being any worse than anything else that's been said. I want them the hell out of my country, but the gov't just seems to be kinda lackadaisical about it all, to say the least.

If anything, I'd say that this was far more honest than anything anyone else has said yet - "they're going to be here, they are NOT going to pay for any services they receive, they WILL be receiving services, & they WILL continue to be a problem as long as Americans are willing to pay them for thier illegal services."

Oh yeah, addendum - we can't depend on the gov't to solve this problem, cuz far too many ppl are making money off of them (remember that greed factor!).

If anything, I'd say that this is the direct opposite of hypocrisy - it's simply truth, Craig. See it for what it is.

#104465 by CraigMaxim
Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:38 pm
GLENJ wrote:Craig, I think only JW brought up anything of valid thinking.
You and I can't win HERE. Let them all keep crying when a bar can only afford a hundred bucks to pay a band that practiced thousand of hours and more and all the hard work that goes with that,,,,,,,



Forget about "band" work.

Alot of people are going to have an even tougher time, finding and maintaining jobs period, if this bill stands.

It will stifle growth, and hurt many smaller businesses. Businesses who have over 50 employees, will be hit with a $2000 per employee fee, when the government has to subsidize their insurance, amazingly.. this applies to part-time and seasonal workers, of which many beusinesses depend, to get them through fluctuating and seasonal businesses, like tourist towns, Holiday seasons, etc... 2 part time employees will be counted as one full time employee. But this is NOT how it works in the real world.

It is going to be bad for small to medium sized businesses. And you can bet, that many companies who are at that target line of 50 employees, may lay off enough workers to get below it.

Oddly enough, it may be the insurance companies that benefit the most from this bill, as millions of people will soon be FORCED to purchase insurance from them, en masse.

#104466 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:11 am
Amen Craig I just shifted my entire retirement portfolio into healthcare.
Obama ,thankyou so much,, you are gonna make me one wealthy mutha.
God I love America, and anyone that can open up the doors that can transfer that kind of wealth.

Problem,,, What charity needs and deserves the most help?

#104469 by fisherman bob
Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:44 am
At first I was against this bill. I am still not convinced it will work BUT after seeing some of the amendments I'm starting to think this might be a good thing for America. Health insurance in many states is a monopoly at this point. They can and have raised premiums as THEY see fit. They are making obscene profits. ANd in many states there's no alternatives for people to switch insurance carriers. When this bill is implemented we will all be able to get into a pool of health insurance companies and have a choice. This will by definition lower the cost of the insurance. The government will have tight control over the insurance companies. They are going to have to get their sh*t together or lose business. Many millions of people will be able to afford the insurance. Parents can cover their children until age 26, after many of them are out of college. Another good thing. Also people with pre-existing conditions can get coverage. Another very good thing. This is NOT and probably won't ever be universal health insurance. This is NOT and probably will never amount to socialized medicine. This IS a compromise of sorts and is not RADICAL reform. I believe what passed will actually end up working for the American people. It may have to be tweaked but I'm hopeful that we will all look back on this day and be thankful it got started...

#104470 by gtZip
Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:44 am
This is yet another great example of christian charity at work, ain't it? Back up & look at things from another perspective once in awhile.


No it aint.
Now, maybe you've had some serious wrong done to you by a proclaimed christian, or practicing christian, maybe you've had a great disappointment with a particular church, or whatever...

But -
Whatever the case may be, that is just 'out of line' Phil.
Try not to generalize and villify a whole group of people or a religion.

Seriously, that really offended me.
I dont remember christianity coming up in this health care discussion.

#104472 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:14 am
No Bob they are not making Obscene profits ,now they can.
The problem is and has and will be ,were is all the money being wasted.

H,C , cos are returning 3 & 4% ,,they would make more if they stuck to homeowners and car insurance.

The problem is stopping the waste. I would not want see one person denied medical help,,,, But dont you dare waste my hard earned pennies on BULL dodo!!

That = don't tie up the gig because you have a sniffle,,,,The person behind you may really need help, diabetes ,hypertension , heart attack.

This gets so twisted doesn't it?
Everybody is right and Everybody is wrong,,,,Lets go Fishing,sounds like a plan to me.

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