General Music Chat

OK Dewy,,,, heres the bet. If this bill doesn't pass,,,, Tommorrow you will see wall street rise 500 points.....

If it passes you will see the begining of a market crash of say maybe ,1000 points. This will only be the start. You will see retirement funds WIPED OUT.

Cat is only one example, they will not be able to afford to rehire, and get back to normal productivity.

Furthermore most other companies will be forced to wait and see what the new rules will be. If this happens unemployment will skyrocket.

Fear mongering,,,No , you got healthcare ,but no job. Feel good DEWY?

Dewy, the poor pay the most because it all gets passed on down the line.
They may not pay any taxes up front but every time they need to eat they have to pay for the taxes that get passed on down the line.
Wait till that $5 dollar box of cereal is $10. Wait till a gallon of milk is $8!

When was the last time you went to work and told your boss you were tired and you felt he shouldn't have to pay you as much ??

When was the last time you put $100 dollars into savings and then told the bank you didn't expect any interest,,,,As a matter of fact you realise their expenses have gone up and can understand why they can only give you back $95.

You guys KILL me.

Health care should be no pay no play.
Even if all you can pay is $5.00 a month. It's better than stealing.
I hate having to pay $600.00 just to walk into an ER department because %70 of the people whom use the ER have no intent of paying.
They are thieves, plain and simple.
The illegal aliens and dead beat trash have bankrupted our local hospital.
Mark my words, if the health care reform bill passes, you will remember fondly when we used to have good heath care in the US.

Whatever happens I hope it happens and is finished with soon. It cost an employer 8 grand for me to have 7 stitches 2 years ago. How on Earth??????

Of course I lost my job there because and soon after that too. Now that makes perfect economical sense to everyone doesn't it? He had asked me to put it through private insurance but too late for him and I didn't know the procedure in any case.

On going in I was told "Your going to have a wonderful experience here". WTF! I was in emergency, I don't care just zip my leg up please. The surgeon left my leg wound with blood on it, which made one staff nurse comment on how unclean it was and walk away to report it I suppose?

Anyway from first hand experience on that occasion without doubt it was a royal farce. Thankfully when I rushed my wife to hospital last year my view changed a lot.
Nothing is or will ever be perfect, just don't dress it up.

If health care as is passes you will all see firsthand what care in the VA hospitals is like. Poor help, long waits. many treatments refused.

Welcome to government VA health care. They might help you if they don't kill you while trying. They are under staffed, under funded, and unwilling to do any procedures not on a specific list. Dr's change constantly. They are low paid jobs. No skilled Dr would ever work there.

"That's not covered" is what you will hear for anything costly. Review boards determine if you are "worthy" of the more expensive treatments. Few are. Can anyone say Death Panels? Naturally, they are not called that, they are called review boards. But if your treatment is refused, even though it could save your life, what the hell would you call them? The VA gets X amount of dollars a year . They aren't going to splurge and waste what would help 20 patients on one patient.

Don't take my word for it, ask a vet that you know personally. WE have to fill out critical care waiver forms. Questions like: Would you want to be kept alive if a physician decided treatment may not help you? (Physicians choice) Would you want to be revived if you went into a coma? (Physicians choice) If you only have the potential for limited life, would you rather refuse treatment? (Physicians choice) Meaning their prognosis being the final word.

Hope to see some of you scoffers in line one of these days if health care as is passes. We'll have a lot of time to get to know one another. The lines are long and slow, that is if you even get to get in line.

Being a veteran, I just received an e mail from Senator Charles Grassley the other day addressing the poor care and refused care issues concerning Veteran health care. If you are a veteran, you have to take your turn along with prisoners, illegals, welfare patients and so on. (Wards of the State) At least that is how it is in Sioux Falls S.D.

However, you get your choice of where you can go for treatment. You can go 100 miles away, or 78 miles away. But appointments take up to six months at times. For all who hope this bill passes, I hope it does for your sake. Then you can experience what those have served their country experience.

Enjoy. Hope you get what you wish.

Far as I can tell, SG, you just described my HMO I its effect in any backwater hospital or Dr office.

Sad, ain't it?

The bill will cover 2 million uninsured adults and 8 million uninsured children immediately, with the bulk of the uninsured getting coverage in a few years. No pre-existing exclusions for children. Insurance companies will not be able to drop you if you get a catastrophic illness. How anyone could be against this is beyond me.

Its not just sad,,,,, It is so UN AMERICAN.

The backlash is going to be severe,,,,,Worldwide.

Don't feel bad, this will also open up tremendous opportunity, if you are smart and are not afraid of work.

The strong always survive.......They have to.... to protect the not so strong.

OK Dewy,,,, heres the bet. If this bill doesn't pass,,,, Tommorrow you will see wall street rise 500 points.....

But on news the bill WOULD PASS the stock market finished the week with GAINS... so your bull market predictions come with little to back them up.

Cat is only one example, they will not be able to afford to rehire, and get back to normal productivity.

More proof you don't read what I say... did Caterpillar provide any facts behind why they wouldn't be able to hire? No they didn't... they speculated. Now they may or may not be able to hire... face it, they have stiff competition in their market, a market that is flooded with Heavy Machinery and cheap steel right now.

But to say that a health care plan that lowers costs across the board and reigns in the increases that Cat has to pay is the reason... I think its political fodder, not facts. Facts come with reasoning behind them.

My wife's small business would love to hire, but right now we need to establish health insurance for existing employees. Until we see how the interstate commerce part of this opening up new companies to us, State and Federal tax credits, and per person costs... we don't know if we can hire either.

But I can't tell you yea or nay on that... and I don't think Caterpillar can either. Too many variables that must be resolved... and to say one way or the other is speculation.

To Slacker:

I just received an e mail from Senator Charles Grassley

Ahh yes, the Famed Death Panel Senator... the one who proposed Mandated health care in '97' then at the Blair house meeting this year told America he thought it was unconstitutional.

How much credit do you give the Poor old guy, I mean come on... he was for flip flopping before he was against it.

So your still on the "Government take over of health care" and trying to use the crappy treatment the last administration gave Vets against this Administration trying to improve healthcare for EVERYONE... including VETS!! I don't get it Slacker... what part of "ITS NOT A FREAKING SOCIALIST PLOT" do you misunderstand?

Tomorrow when the bill is passed, your local hospital will still belong to whomever mismanaged it in the past. We don't all goto VA style hospitals... They are not closing the local clinics.
In Socialist System, Hospital own you. Ok, sounded funnier in my head... but the ownership of the hospital would change in a socialist system... not sure if it would goto the fed or state...
Your local doctor will still get $100-$300 per patient, and see more of them.
In a socialist system, the Doctor is an employee of the state... is paid what the state pays all Doctors.
Your insurance company will no longer be able to deny you coverage in the face of a catastrophic illness... but they will still be a private for profit company.. quite capitalistic I assure you.
In a Socialist Takeover of Healthcare... there are no insurance companies!
Seniors will no longer be able to get a scooter as a door prize for making it to Medicare... and they will no longer be able to sign up for the wasteful medicare advantage... but they are still covered under medicare, so no real socialist changes there... or seniors getting tossed under the bus.

I'm terribly afraid that when the bill passes, the doom and Armageddon predicted will be very underwhelming. That is unless the Mob wants to riot... in which case they do that out of fear. Fear well spread by the repubs and teabaggers, but I assure you, like all fears, it is founded in ignorance. Shine the light of knowledge and patience on it, and its nothing to be afraid of.

Because Jimmy you don't have enough money in your bank account to pay for all this.
You are going to be paying for this in ways you just seem to refuse to understand.
Wait till guitar strings are $20 , I applaude the ideals you are holding up, but you continue to omit one thing,,,,,Who the heck is going to pay for it.
Medicare tax[employee contribution]Social Security[employee contribution][payroll tax]employer contribution, unearned income tax increases, [401k's,dividends,pensions,annuities]this list could go on and on.
Right now Jimmy ,I hope you have some pretty deep pockets,a mere 14 trillion donation would bail out this country and I would vote for you in a heartbeat.
As far our veterans, WHAT A DISGRACE. These are some of the guys and gals that have ever paid the highest form of tax any govt could ask.
Why does't our govt have enough money to treat them like royalty?
To many things wrong,so little time.

Dewy ,,, we will see ,I wasn't talking about last week , I was talking about friday when the whole mood of the market was pull money off the table.
As far as CAT the CEO stated " this healthcare bill will cost us 100 million up front, as far as rehireing people this will be put on hold untill a point we are certain the expense will justify itself" THIS IS NOT FROM ME THIS IS FROM A CORPORATE HEAD!!!!![by the way ,cat ,was down for the week,stockholders want to hear about growth and expansion]
You can make up any bs to to justify your positions,Dewy, But your thinking just cost a bunch of people JOBS.
Please be so smart and justify that to maybe a 1000 families that are struggling to put food on the table. !000 families that could have been called back to work.
Your solution,,,More food stamps.More govt assistance,,, you and Jimmy can get together and PAY for all this.

Glen... you rant and provide no proof. You make plenty of noise, and its all nonsense.

Who is going to pay for it?
We already pay enough in this nation to provide every man, woman and child BETTER health care than any other nation, in 2005 we wrote a check from Bush's Federal Government to make sure every man woman and child in Iraq would have access to health care... so we pay enough for two countries.
http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm

Changing how that money is spent, and the regulations on how to qualify for that money (insurance mandates, medicare qualifications, ect) is not rocket science, nor is it socialism. It just takes political will to do it over the heads of the medical lobby.

How about we have a little fact class for you... try to bring you and Slacker around to an enlightened point of view.

1) 46 Million American have NO health insurance.
Now bear in mind, this is not "poor people" because they are covered... this is working class men and women who do not have a job that provides insurance, and cannot afford coverage at today's rates.

2) 9.4 Million children have No health insurance.
Again, the children of people who work, but cannot afford healthcare.

3) Insurance costs are outpacing income by eight-fold.
Last year despite the recession, national health care spending hit $2.5 trillion, a 5.7 percent jump from 2008, according to projections by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). Increased health spending and decreased GDP combined to increase health care's share of the economy by 1.1 percent – the biggest one-year jump since the government began tracking the numbers in 1960. According to CMS economists writing in the journal, Health Affairs. Health expenditures are estimated to have consumed 17.3 percent of GDP last year. As growing unemployment caused forced more people to rely on Medicaid, public spending grew to 8.7 percent, or $1.2 trillion. At the same time private payers increases totaling $1.3 trillion, a 3 percent increase. Health costs now equal 17 percent of the nation’s economy

4) Every year one Million Americans lose their coverage.
That was 2008 statistics, they didn't add in 2009 because the economy skewed the numbers.

5) The cost of health care causes bankruptcy every 30 seconds.

6) By the end of 2009 1.5 Million people are going to lose their homes due to illness.

7) America spends twice as much per person on health care as other rich countries. Americans spent $2.2 Trillion on health care in 2008. Projected health care costs by 2012 are $3.1 Trillion a year. Health care cost are 4 times higher than our national defense yet Europeans live 2 years longer than we do.

America spent 17% of it’s GDP on health care in 2008. By 2017 Americans will be spending 20% of GDP on health care. France spends 9.5% of GDP on health care, Switzerland spends 10.9%, Canada spends 9.7%, every person in those countries has health insurance.

I could go on and on... or you could attempt to inform yourself. The facts are out there:
http://www.bspcn.com/2009/04/16/20-disturbing-facts-on-us-healthcare-everybody-should-know/
http://nchc.org/facts-resources/list
http://www.factcheck.org/

Or you could be like Bruce Majors, who stormed the House today and demanded as he was escorted outside that Reps,"Kill the Bill". Asked later why he did it responded he believes that supporters of the current bill would "slowly force everyone into a government health care system and then ration and control who gets it."
Poor ignorant bastard, went all of the way to Washington to be a patsy against a cause he doesn't understand. Glen, Slacker and a dozen folks I know at a local musician forum are just as misinformed as this guy is.

I can't help but wonder... why are you supporting the side with no facts? Why are you still on the "We can't afford a cheaper, more effective system" side? Why are you still screaming this is going to cost jobs, when the number one killer of new jobs is THE COST OF FREAKING HEALTH CARE!

Maybe you enjoy being a step above the millions who do not have health care? Maybe you think this makes you "richer" than someone else?

Meanwhile our nation gets poorer, less healthy, and the insurance execs roll in the dough.

Here is the end of it though. Vote your conscious in Nov. Vote for the folks you think attempted to do the right thing. Support the ones who win. That's the American way.

Will you do less than that?

Bravo on the stats Dewy, you're a more patient man than me.

I have no pity for the insurance companies, I hope they take a beating and cut some of those CEO's salaries.

Health care should be no pay no play.
Even if all you can pay is $5.00 a month. It's better than stealing.
I hate having to pay $600.00 just to walk into an ER department because %70 of the people whom use the ER have no intent of paying.
They are thieves, plain and simple.
The illegal aliens and dead beat trash have bankrupted our local hospital.

Glad to see at least 1 person that never had his head in his ass.

Health care should be no pay no play.
Even if all you can pay is $5.00 a month.

This was the basis of the public option... cost scaled to income... Everyone buys into the pool.

They shot it in the head. I would have been very happy with this, but it was too "Liberal"... too socialist.