General Music Chat

Last night the band got into an argument about our keyboard player putting on his own shows. It started because our band needs to raise about $1,000 to get the CD finished and pressed, and for merch. Our keyboard player has a show coming up that he's promoting and hosting. Our drummer asked him if he would be willing to put ALL profits from the show into the band fund. Our keyboard player's answer was NO, I have to pay myself as well. Saying that being a promoter is now his job.

I'm going to give you the positions we're dealing with.

Our keyboard player got in with a venue that allows him to host shows. He promotes under the name Chris Haleamano. Outside booking managers know him as that even though it isn't his real last name. At one point there was a contract made out that said a check would be payable to "Chris Haleamano" for one of our own gigs that he didn't promote. Point being he uses our band name for his promoter name.

Last month when we played his first hosted show, it was a success. The place was packed. People had to be turned away due to over-capacity. That was when he booked Tribal Seeds. After all was said and done, and all other parties were payed, there was $950 of profit leftover. He payed himself $550 and HaleAmano $400.

This is where the argument got heated.

Chris' stance was that he did all of the promotion, contacted the people and bands involved, it was at a venue he worked to get. And he said that his #1 priority is to help the band make good money at his shows by bringing in bigger bands and exposing us to people who like the bigger bands and may not normally come to our own shows if we weren't on the bill. Plus he said he needed the money to pay IZ (our singer) for rent. So basically the $550 went to IZ as well so they could cover their rent money. He considers this his job now, and he's always going to take his cut.

However.. A few people in the band don't quite see this as being right or ethical to the band. Over the past year Chris has had no job, not collecting unemployment (by his own wishes, he easily could have), no car, no equipment, and lives with our singer. He has relied 100% on this band for his existence in the band. The band has collectively carried him through on our shoulders for the past year. The Keys he plays are all provided by Ryan, and he needs rides everywhere he goes.

Since the band itself is a business, the question is, is it right that he pays himself MORE than the band who has carried him to this point, under the notion that he is now a promoter and this is now his job?? To put that particular show into a band perspective. Everyone in the band made about $65 and put it all into the band fund, while Chris put $550 extra in his pocket and used it for his rent and other personal expenses.

I personally believe that there's a reason that there are promoters and there are bands, and that they are better off as separate entities for this very reason. I think it's a conflict of interest, and that a person should decide to be one or the other.

What are your thoughts on this?

The companies I have worked for in this area charge 15%. It is my opinion he should get $142.50 which is 15% of $950.00. I think it is fair for him to get paid but IMO he took WAY to big of a cut.

Keep in mind Jeff that that's just what was left over from the night as a whole after paying the other bands and door and sound guys.. The show generated over $2,000 at the door. So from his perspective, would it be fair to say that he should have at least pocketed $300?

I'm just asking as a neutral question here without bias. The band is trying to figure out what's fair in these cases for the future.

No he has to pocket 'Net', not 'Gross'.
What ever was left as profit - he probably has a right to the fair market percentage of that for a promoter.
But it is a conflict of interest.

I would have to agree that he should get a percentage. I am not up on the net/gross stuff. If he IS doing the job of promoting, and doing it well, he should be paid for it. Agreed that it is a conflict of interest, but you all do need to iron this out for the future. I do think that this amount of $550 was totally excesive. If you do go forward with him as "promoter", definitely get it in writing the percentage he is to be paid as promoter. Also keep in mind that he will probably be taking a cut as a member of the band. The two jobs are individual entities.

When I was running the band Cruise Control. I booked all the gigs supplied most of the p.a. kept up with the website and myspace stored the gear and did the maintenence. I split the gig proceeds (money) equally amongst the band members for this very reason. I have been in your shoes Shredd and it just causes unwanted conflict when one member of the band does what your keyboard player is doing. If you are not carefull this could be the beginning of the end. I agree with Robin get it in writing!

in self-run projects, promoting your band, advertising, legwork and other non-musical chores is the duty of all band members. Some do more than others but all should get equal distribution of the payment.

Jsantos, I agree with you, but this guy obviously thinks differently. Instead of kicking this guy out, compromise. Life is all about compromising. The band has a solid base so I would hate to see one person acting like and idiot, break up something that is working. If the guy can't compromise, then........

A promoter is a free agent. He can charge whatever he wants to charge. Now, if it bothers the rest of the band, the details of the gig ,promo charges and everything else should be discussed ahead of time.

If the band agrees to play for $400.00, it isn't anyones business what goes on above that. I would never do anything like that, but when you tell a band you have a gig for the band that pays $500.00 a night, and the band accepts that offer, then it's a done deal. It is the bands fault for not negotiating more for themselves.

He should pay rental and setup fees on the stuff the band provides for him if he charges promotion fees for the band that he is in. When he pockets a take like that, he can and should pay for the wear and tear of the equipment he is using. The band is not a charity.

I agree with most of what Slacker says.

But his use of the band name is of concern too. Is it trademarked yet? Will people assume it is HIS band and that the band is named after HIM?

Don't make my mistake.

Get EVERYTHING in writing. An informal band contract, on how the band fund works, who administers it, who gets paid what, how decisions are made, and what happens if someone leaves the band or is voted out.

As to the money.

If he is booking bands, he is an agent. But he shouldn't charge YOUR band a fee, if he is not the only one booking it. Bands that don't have professional booking agents, usually end up ALL working at getting gigs for the band from time to time.

But ask yourself this...

What is really different now, than before?

Were you happy getting gigs at those rates? Are you getting more consistent bookings now? It may be a conflict of interest, but it sounds like the band is BENEFITTING from that conflict "currently".

If all that has "really" changed, is that this dude is getting more money for side-work, then don't begrudge him that success.... start CHARGING him his fair share of everything the other members are footing the bill for. Stop doing him favors. Seems like he can afford to exist without handouts now, right?

Good luck though.


Get a contract YESTERDAY... success makes people WACKY!

Geez, sounds like a selfish scoundrel to my ear.
But I will say this, and hope it makes sense. If not give me a shout and I'll try to explain.

You / the band can go about this two ways the way I see it.

He is using you.
Yet you may be able to profit from it, if you act cautiously.
He is a manipulator. You can either get bent and put your boot in his butt.
OR
Realizing he is a manipulator, you (the band) can do what we call stalking in the warriors vernacular.
This would be manipulating the manipulator to your greatest advantage while setting him up as the fall for anything than may go wrong.

Think of it as counter sniping.

I'm the one who is doing all the promotion. I haul and set up the PA. I do most of the lead singing and so far all the originals we do are mine. That being said there's four guys in this band and we each 25% of the pay. Your keyboardist IS way out of line. He should get about 15-20% of the show in addition to his equal cut of the band's pay. That's only fair in this case.

hey shredd... I know we've had our differences and I just wanted to show you that I'm a good sport and hold nothing against you. I hope you don't mind me posting in here... if you do just let me know and I'll give you some space.

if I understand correctly... the first issue is: he wouldn't donate all proceeds from his show to your bands fund. If you ask someone for something and then when they say no you get mad... you really weren't asking them in the first place... you were telling them... and no one likes to be told what to do.
still, as a band you have to work as a team...

the issue of him using your band name... if it bothers you then you should probably tell him to stop using it... but I don't think it has anything to do with the rest of your argument.

paid himself $550 and the band $450? ok houston... we have a problem. Totally on your side for this aspect. It's only going to get worse with this guy... but be professional... keep working with him as long as you need him while you look for a replacement.

geeze,

It seems like a lot of judgment on very few facts. No one knows where he is coming from.

Here is your example. A band member, whom you know does bookings for pay, gets a job for your band. You are happy to get the job, and you take it. He pays you what he said you were getting. Everyone is all smiles. So what happened? You were happy getting the gig for what you got paid. Then you found out he got more. Now you aren't happy with what you got paid.

Some, by definition, would call that greed. .

Someone gives you something. You are happy with what someone gave to you. Then you see that same person give someone else more. Satisfaction then dissatisfaction. Now you want what he has. But not because of something that happened to you. You still have what you were happy with in the first place. It is because someone else got more. Got a name for that?
I know it sounds like I am bashing you. I don't mean to. I just don't think it is right for everyone to turn on the other guy without having all the facts or taking a lot of things into consideration.

You can tell him you don't think he should be able to set a price between himself and the owner of the establishment, and then set another price for the rest of the band. And he would think or say " Who the F^&K are you to tell me what I can or can't do in an occupation that provides my living?

So that doesn't sound like a good deal for him.

Another thing is this. If he is getting you some pretty good gigs at a price that makes the band happy, he could get p1ssed and not go looking for gigs for your band. I am sure he would spend his time finding the best gigs for other bands who do not care what he gets as long as they are happy with what he says they will get.

People are thinking he is a greedy bastard. Maybe he is. I know the rest of the band probably never thought anything about it until they found out what he got. I might point out that he took what he thought he could get.

Just like anyone responding here would try to get what they think they are worth when they do a job.

None of us know how he got the gig, how much of his time it took or gas or anything else. None of us are aware enough of the circumstances to really make a fair judgment, in my opinion.

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I really didn't get TOO involved in this argument last night, other than to say that I didn't think taking $550 was fair to the rest of the band, and I spoke my mind as far as to say that there are others in the band that work just as hard as Chris does with his advertising. I just didn't want to speak my mind too much without giving things a lot of thought.

You guys have been a big help. Thanks again.