General Music Chat

I can understand opposition to school vouchers.

They make better education available for those who can afford it

Actually Phil, you are affording it NOW!

YOUR taxes pay for the government monopoly school system RIGHT NOW!

School vouchers would mean that YOU choose where your portion of educational expenditures get spent! This gives you CHOICE, and creates COMPETITION!

Competition is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.

Let me explain it with this comparison:

We have a military, whose weapons are government FINANCED, but NOT government PRODUCED! For example, our military has F15 aircraft, but there is no such thing as a governmental F15 factory.

There is a big difference in the government FINANCING things, and the government PRODUCING things. Monopolies are BAD for many reasons. Remember when ALL telephones were only black or white, and ALL LONG DISTANCE cost a fortune? It was actually ILLEGAL to use a telephone answering device at one time, because it was considered a "foreign device"! Deregulation changed all that, created competition, and now we have MYRIAD choices of phone service providers and nearly limitless acessories, phones, and the like, in a style, size or shape to fit any taste. Aside from all that, phone service, even worldwide, is now cheap and within reason for most budgets.

What about when the Post Office controlled ALL mail service? No such thing as overnight delivery. It took a private company, based on a college thesis by a student who later founded that company (if I remember correctly)... To accomplish that. And that company is called UPS. Now we have options for mail, receving it WHEN we want, and sending it quickly OVERNIGHT, if we choose.

There is no valid reason why offering privatized choices to more people (not just the wealthy) could not accomplish the SAME for education.

Provide more efficient and BETTER education, for less money!

The only fair tax is a universal sales tax.
All other forms of taxation should be outlawed.

The problem remains, though. The cost of private schooling is higher than the cost of public schooling. For a guy who's against more taxes, I'd think that alone would give you pause on this issue.

The more ppl who accept that voucher will be costing tha taxpayer more money than if the public school system was made to be at least adequate.

On top of that, you're still paying your taxes for the bldgs, the teachers, everything within the school system, but you are reaping none of the benefits.

I'm all for competition in some things, but public schooling? There are still going to be ppl who cannot afford it for one reason or other - transportation costs, uniform costs, etc., even with the voucher, which doesn't cover ALL the costs, if I'm reading things right.

Therefore, in spite of this vouchers, ppl will be left out & forced to attend public school, & the problems there still are not solved.

What's that incentive to improve? Competition? Nah. I don't see it.

What's that incentive to improve? Competition? Nah. I don't see it.

Why don't you see it?

What's the incentive for major aircraft manufacturers to make better military aircraft?

Obtaining more government contracts.

When there is competition, the government can CHOOSE, who to award contracts to. Private firms make investments and work hard to achieve a product worthy of receiving a government contract, and then MAINTAIN them.

There are private firms all over the country ITCHING to have the country privatize prisons, schools, space flight, etc...

Private industry does a better job than the government at just about everything!

Going back to the top of this thread,actions speak louder than BS.
Jimmy , whats your problem? You didn't call Craig a shortsighted ,pencil dick,deep open anal pore, with the brains of an insect......YOU FEELING OK?

Because I never need to resort to calling anyone any name, and also because I consider him to be a friend. You, I just consider an ass.

You, I just consider an ass.

He's just a puppy dog Jimmy.

Didn't you see his avatar?

More like rabid dog but it's all good. I understand some people are upset and need to vent and I encourage that. Just don't lie, especially when it's easy to see what was actually said.

Private industry does a better job than the government at just about everything!

Like lending people money for houses, right?

Or handling utilities, right ? (Enron anyone?)


I think the point you need to make Craig is not that private industry does a better job, but that it *can* do a better job. But there is a big difference between private and government, and that difference is the bottom line. Private companies are not driven to do the best job; they're driven to make the most money. They don't operate in an altruistic fashion.

So, there has to be some kind of regulation and oversight for infrastructure type stuff. You can't just privatize schools and expect it to be a magic bullet. The minute you do that you open yourself to the corruption of the private sector where the almighty dollar rules.

I know I'm always wrong.
How does that fit in with any equation?

I know I'm always wrong.
How does that fit in with any equation?

We can use you as a reverse barometer. Just give your opinion and we'll go with the opposite.

Cool.

We can use you as a reverse barometer. Just give your opinion and we'll go with the opposite.

Colors,

My belief in BALANCE applies to most situations I find.

Of course there must be some degree of regulation. Our own government is founded on a principle of "checks and balances" to not give too much power to any one entity. Business is the same. Absolute deregulation is asking for problems, like toxic waste being dumped in rivers... but extreme regulation also has harsh adverse effects.

Balance is required.

As to the housing crisis, there is just as much blame to go to groups like Acorn and the politicians who supported them, when they pressured banks through government to extend housing loans to people with poor credit ratings, who were unqualified to handle their mortgages.

You could have an argument that favorable loan rates also encouraged homeowners to buy beyond their means, but shouldn't those people have known better? They weren't new to credit ratings, or budgets.

Enron?

One of the reasons the government needs to be reformed YESTERDAY!

Campaign finance reform, better laws about conflicts of interest, and HARSHER PENALTIES for cooking books. A white collar criminal that helps put thousands of people on the streets, or tens of housands losing their savings, is not all that better than someone who holds up a single liquor store, even though he used a gun to do it.

The WHOLE BUSINESS of how Congress currently operates, needs to be reformed. It is all a big shell game. One party will reject a bill sometimes just to make the other party look bad before the next election... "See? They promised to get this bill passed and they didn't do it! You need to elect our party this time!"

All the fillibusters, used as a tool, like well planned time outs to un-nerve the kicker trying to make a field goal... the pork added to bills, so they can claim they brought federal money into their state... the deals that are made to GET the pork passed... "I'll vote for your bill, if you vote to approve that 68 million bill, for my state, to study the effects of dried worms on the sidewalks, and any relationship to global warming that might have."

It's all a BIG GAME and at the bottom line, it's ALL ABOUT THE NEXT ELECTION!

Maybe 4 or 6 year terms, with a term-limit of a SINGLE TERM allowed, could help?

I don't know. But that at least takes the re-election motivations off the table.

You could have an argument that favorable loan rates also encouraged homeowners to buy beyond their means, but shouldn't those people have known better? They weren't new to credit ratings, or budgets.

You know as well as I do that people left to their own devices are generally idiots. This is why we have speed limits, helmet laws, consumer protection agencies and a host of other laws and regulations... because people are just dumb man.

You know as well as I do that people left to their own devices are generally idiots. This is why we have speed limits, helmet laws, consumer protection agencies and a host of other laws and regulations... because people are just dumb man.

Well ok, but I'd put it more like... "Laws are in place to protect the responsible people, from the irresponsible ones."