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#102393 by CraigMaxim
Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:55 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/opinion/28kristof.html


The New York Times
Op-Ed Columnist
Learning From the Sin of Sodom
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
February 27, 2010


Image

For most of the last century, save-the-worlders were primarily Democrats and liberals. In contrast, many Republicans and religious conservatives denounced government aid programs, with Senator Jesse Helms calling them “money down a rat hole.”

Over the last decade, however, that divide has dissolved, in ways that many Americans haven’t noticed or appreciated. Evangelicals have become the new internationalists, pushing successfully for new American programs against AIDS and malaria, and doing superb work on issues from human trafficking in India to mass rape in Congo.

A pop quiz: What’s the largest U.S.-based international relief and development organization?

It’s not Save the Children, and it’s not CARE — both terrific secular organizations. Rather, it’s World Vision, a Seattle-based Christian organization (with strong evangelical roots) whose budget has roughly tripled over the last decade.

World Vision now has 40,000 staff members in nearly 100 countries. That’s more staff members than CARE, Save the Children and the worldwide operations of the United States Agency for International Development — combined.

A growing number of conservative Christians are explicitly and self-critically acknowledging that to be “pro-life” must mean more than opposing abortion. The head of World Vision in the United States, Richard Stearns, begins his fascinating book, “The Hole in Our Gospel,” with an account of a visit a decade ago to Uganda, where he met a 13-year-old AIDS orphan who was raising his younger brothers by himself.

“What sickened me most was this question: where was the Church?” he writes. “Where were the followers of Jesus Christ in the midst of perhaps the greatest humanitarian crisis of our time? Surely the Church should have been caring for these ‘orphans and widows in their distress.’ (James 1:27). Shouldn’t the pulpits across America have flamed with exhortations to rush to the front lines of compassion?

“How have we missed it so tragically, when even rock stars and Hollywood actors seem to understand?”

Mr. Stearns argues that evangelicals were often so focused on sexual morality and a personal relationship with God that they ignored the needy. He writes laceratingly about “a Church that had the wealth to build great sanctuaries but lacked the will to build schools, hospitals, and clinics.”

In one striking passage, Mr. Stearns quotes the prophet Ezekiel as saying that the great sin of the people of Sodom wasn’t so much that they were promiscuous or gay as that they were “arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”
(Ezekiel 16:49.)


Hmm. Imagine if sodomy laws could be used to punish the stingy, unconcerned rich!

The American view of evangelicals is still shaped by preening television blowhards and hypocrites who seem obsessed with gays and fetuses. One study cited in the book found that even among churchgoers ages 16 to 29, the descriptions most associated with Christianity were “antihomosexual,” “judgmental,” “too involved in politics,” and “hypocritical.”

Some conservative Christians reinforced the worst view of themselves by inspiring Ugandan homophobes who backed a bill that would punish gays with life imprisonment or execution. Ditto for the Vatican, whose hostility to condoms contributes to the AIDS epidemic. But there’s more to the picture: I’ve also seen many Catholic nuns and priests heroically caring for AIDS patients — even quietly handing out condoms.

One of the most inspiring figures I’ve met while covering Congo’s brutal civil war is a determined Polish nun in the terrifying hinterland, feeding orphans, standing up to drunken soldiers and comforting survivors — all in a war zone. I came back and decided: I want to grow up and become a Polish nun.

Some Americans assume that religious groups offer aid to entice converts. That’s incorrect. Today, groups like World Vision ban the use of aid to lure anyone into a religious conversation.

Some liberals are pushing to end the longtime practice (it’s a myth that this started with President George W. Bush) of channeling American aid through faith-based organizations. That change would be a catastrophe. In Haiti, more than half of food distributions go through religious groups like World Vision that have indispensable networks on the ground. We mustn’t make Haitians the casualties in our cultural wars.

A root problem is a liberal snobbishness toward faith-based organizations. Those doing the sneering typically give away far less money than evangelicals. They’re also less likely to spend vacations volunteering at, say, a school or a clinic in Rwanda.

If secular liberals can give up some of their snootiness, and if evangelicals can retire some of their sanctimony, then we all might succeed together in making greater progress against common enemies of humanity, like illiteracy, human trafficking and maternal mortality.

#102407 by philbymon
Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:57 pm
This quote says it all to me:

"Mr. Stearns argues that evangelicals were often so focused on sexual morality and a personal relationship with God that they ignored the needy."

I like this one, too:

“How have we missed it so tragically, when even rock stars and Hollywood actors seem to understand?”

This pretty much describes my view of many many ppl, esp in my area:

"The American view of evangelicals is still shaped by preening television blowhards and hypocrites who seem obsessed with gays and fetuses. One study cited in the book found that even among churchgoers ages 16 to 29, the descriptions most associated with Christianity were “antihomosexual,” “judgmental,” “too involved in politics,” and “hypocritical.”"


duh...this is something he discovered when, exactly?

I wonder how much the staff & admins make in World Vision. If it's anything like the Red Cross or Goodwill, not one red dime of my money will go to them.

I'd read that many Catholic ppl were trying to ignore the BS of the pope & giving out condoms & such. Kudos to them.

Still, when I read things like this:

"Some Americans assume that religious groups offer aid to entice converts. That’s incorrect. Today, groups like World Vision ban the use of aid to lure anyone into a religious conversation."


...I wonder how exactly that works in practice. Like the nuns ignoring the Vatican mandate, do the ppl working for WV ignore the company policy, & still give out trinkets or even aid for converts, only? It's very nice to have this as public policy. Is it, in fact, followed through? What happens when this policy is violated by an employee, or volunteer? i'd like to know. I truly doubt that they are fired or even removed from the field, when so much help is needed. How can WV possibly enforce this policy? (If we can save just one person from a religious zealot, it's all worthwhile...LOL)

What these ppl really need is education, purpose, work, some sort of progression from thier plight, so that they have something else to do besides f*ck & fight, f*ck & fight.

Where are the leaders they so desperately need? The Mandelas seem to be at a premium, while the Amins seem to be everywhere.

#102482 by gbheil
Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:42 am
Yes those faquin Christians are just a bunch of sinners. :roll:

#102506 by fisherman bob
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:06 am
People (especially Christians) who donate to charity MUST have a hidden agenda, right? Why do we have to always read more into something that ISN'T THERE? Americans of all religious and non-religious persuasions are THE MOST CHARITABLE PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH. Instead of trying to come up with nonsensical reasons for charitable giving let's assume that all charities and charity workers REALLY ARE THE SALT OF THE EARTH and give them thanks AND DONATE whatever you can to help make the world a better place.

#102529 by philbymon
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:57 am
Sorry, bob, but no can do. If I'm giving to a cause, I wanna know that the cause is getting my help, not some rip-off administrator or flim flam outfit.

I rarely give to charity orgs. I prefer to give in person when I can. I'll do the occasional benefit, too, but only for causes I feel somewhat comfy with.

#102540 by philbymon
Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:46 pm
sanshouheil wrote:Yes those faquin Christians are just a bunch of sinners. :roll:
I know I've been hard on ya the last few posts, sans, & I appreciate your patience with me.

I've had quite a few really bad experiences that are bound to color my opinions.

One of the more popular churches around here has one of those tv evangelical types who wears the silk suits, bouffant hair-do, & $150 shoes. He drives...you guessed it...a Lexus. The wife & I went to him for marriage counselling (at her urging, of course - I could tell by looking at the guy that this was NOT going to go well). When he found out that I wasn't calling myself a christian, well, everything, no matter what, was gonna be my fault (until I converted, I suppose). In fact, I could barely speak without either her or him interrupting, & it really pissed me off. He also had the gall to ask us for donations to his church as he sat there with his glamorous duds on. (We did pay him for the 1-hour counselling, on two occasions, btw.)

On the other hand, I also have a good story for ya, sans:

It took everything I had to move here. I was behind on car payments & such, & times were pretty tough. Just as it looked like I might get back on track, I was injured on the job, & Workers Comp was flooking with me. My co was self-insured, & withholding my WC payments. When I got out of the hospital, I was back behind zero. The car was repossessed, I was in danger of being evicted, I was scrounging in the woods for wood to heat with, & Xmas card checks, well, I was hitch-hiking into town on my cast to cash them to buy food. I received only one $600 "advance" on my WC payments, from early Oct, when I was injured, until late in Jan, when they started to pay me.

A friend took me to his church about 30 miles away, & made me talk to the head guy. It was an indy church, & they had no formal preacher, but the guy at the top, after hearing my tale of woe, handed me $300 cash, which blew my mind, cuz I'd never even set foot in his church before, & I had told him that I was a practicing buddhist! He even asked if that was enough. It was enough to get me through another month, & I thanked him profusely.

We started going there, & that was where I joined up with the gospel band, & started writing rock gospel. Then it turned bad, but I won't go into that & ruin an otherwise good tale on christians...

No, sans. I'd never say that the entire religion is fulla bad stuff, or bad ppl. My experiences, however, have not been all that great, overall, & the prayers I've prayed have actually worked, in odd ways, in my present religion far more than they did as a christian. The things I see as an outsider often give me pause, & the history bothers me a lot.

Yes, christianity does a lot of good, but as the author above said - christians are all too often caught up in the sins of others, & I often question whether these are even real sins, which makes me shy away from the religion. They too often spend so much time looking for sins & looking for those who would destroy christianity through devious & nefarious sneaky ways that they miss real needs & problems that they can address. Thier pride & thier cockiness puts me off. There also often seems to be a subversive side to it all that I find very disturbing, a drive for world domination that would make those of us who choose other paths into 2nd class citizens, all while they cry out at how badly they're treated by the world. To hear many christians speak, you'd think they were on thier last legs, being shot & hunted down like rats on a farm, all while they point fingers at ppl & tell them what sinners they are, & they push thier agenda on us all ever more & more.

In the end, to use the lyric of Lil Abner - "If I had my druthers, to choose from all the others, I'd rather be like I am."

#102543 by jimmydanger
Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:09 pm
Learning From the Sin of Sodom sounds like a porno title.

#102547 by philbymon
Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:31 pm
LMAO

jimmy, you're killing me here!

#102548 by jimmydanger
Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:35 pm
That's what she said.

#102563 by gtZip
Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:50 pm
The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.

#102568 by philbymon
Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:52 pm
gtZip wrote:The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
Really? I was under the impression that it was designated for worship, first, & rest, second, in which case it was made for god.

#102577 by gtZip
Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:26 pm
Rub your belly and seek deeper waters.

Are justice and the law the same?
Does a law hang upon justice, or justice upon a law?

#102582 by gbheil
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:10 pm
8)

#102592 by philbymon
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:34 pm
"Justice" is a concept that varies greatly from person to person. It embraces the idea of fairness.

A "law" is supposed to be a rule with serious consequences if it is broken (unless you can afford to buy your way out of the consequenses when you break the rules).

"The law" is supposed to make things equal for all. In practice, it makes it more equal for those who can afford better lawyers. "The law" is rarely, if ever, interested in the concept of "justice."

#102593 by gbheil
Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:38 pm
Greatly depends upon who's LAW one chooses to follow. ( or attempt to anyways ) :wink:

I recognize but one authority.

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