General Music Chat

I always loved this song. I know it's so 80's, but I still like it. I've heard a few other versions & it's always a good tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3905ufEkro

Sorry, Chris, but this follows the same ol' formula...LOL

Good one Phil but I like this Dear God:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk41Gbjljfo

Wow...that was...er...a bit negative? Powerful piece, that. Thanks, jimmy.

I think it was aimed more at either ppl who hate religion or are atheists, though. Midge Ure's song was merely questioning. The XTC one was attacking. Two completely different takes on a title, for sure.

For those too lazy to watch the video:

Dear God, hope you got the letter, and...
I pray you can make it better down here.
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
But all the people that you made in your image, see
Them starving on their feet 'cause they don't get
Enough to eat from God, I can't believe in you

Dear God, sorry to disturb you, but... I feel that I should be heard
Loud and clear. We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
And all the people that you made in your image, see them fighting
In the street 'cause they can't make opinions meet about God,
I can't believe in you

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue? Did you make
Mankind after we made you? And the devil too!

Dear God, don't know if you noticed, but... your name is on
A lot of quotes in this book, and us crazy humans wrote it, you
Should take a look, and all the people that you made in your
Image still believing that junk is true. Well I know it ain't, and
So do you, dear God, I can't believe in I don't believe in

I won't believe in heaven and hell. No saints, no sinners, no
Devil as well. No pearly gates, no thorny crown. You're always
Letting us humans down. The wars you bring, the babes you
Drown. Those lost at sea and never found, and it's the same the
Whole world 'round. The hurt I see helps to compound that
Father, Son and Holy Ghost is just somebody's unholy hoax,
And if you're up there you'd perceive that my heart's here upon
My sleeve. If there's one thing I don't believe in

It's you....

Erm?
XTC were great. Good lyrics with this but the song sucked big time given what they had achieved.
In short I'd walk if I heard this playing or drink up and leave.

Making plans for Nigel was a great tune.

Good one Phil but I like this Dear God:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk41Gbjljfo

Sadly, that song merely shows the ignorance of people who don't want to take responsibility for the free will they were given.

What it really shares is this...

"God, why didn't you make us robots? We can't be trusted with the free will you gave us! Couldn't we have been book-ends or rocks instead? The world wouldn't have any pain in it, if we had just all been made rocks or palm trees!"

It's funny how God gets the blame for the decisions human beings FREELY MAKE.

It's also very interesting, isn't it? That a song like this got plenty of national airplay, but if a song came along that spoke approvingly of God, it would not be played on that same station, but reduced to being played ONLY on Christian stations.

Double standard don't you think?

Or worse... a purposeful agenda!

Otherwise, how is it that a song which TRASHES God or Jesus, can be played, even when it uses the term "Jesus" whereas, a Christian song that could easily be a cross-over hit, will be nixed for ONE SINGLE mention of the name "Jesus".

The band "D.C. Talk" has claimed in interviews and their books, that radio DJ's all over the country, from time to time, would tell them... "The music is awesome guys! If you would just drop the "Jesus" reference in the song, I'm telling you... we'd play it, and it would blow up huge!"

The band wouldn't compromise their principles to oblige them however.

(Kudos to San's band for doing the same!)

Religion has done far more good in the world, than harm.

The notion of Civil Society, of laws themselves, have their origin in religious faith and teachings, And yet punk asses like these, trash God and religion, and have an open forum (radio) to do so, while blaming "God" for the lack of love and goodness in the world.

Amazing.

It really "IS" a battle over the hearts and souls of those who reject the vast love and moral conscience that God provides.

They didn't have an open forum (radio) in England, the song was banned from BBC when it came out.

Many people question their belief in God especially when a traumatic event happens in their lives. Remember that not all songs are autobiographic when written; good writers put themselves in other people's places when writing. So if a character says "I hate you" in the lyric it's not necessarily the writer saying this.

It's been a long time since XTC has been called punks. They're one of the more intellectual bands of all time; their music sails right over the heads of most people.

They didn't have an open forum (radio) in England, the song was banned from BBC when it came out.

Interesting.

But it was a mild hit here.

Remember that not all songs are autobiographic when written; good writers put themselves in other people's places when writing. So if a character says "I hate you" in the lyric it's not necessarily the writer saying this.

That's true, good point.

But the effect is really the same isn't it?

It's been a long time since XTC has been called punks.

They're just older punks now.

LOL

They're one of the more intellectual bands of all time; their music sails right over the heads of most people.

As does many of my logical arguments here.


But this song, is right in line with Depeche Mode's "Blasphemous Rumours"... which at least, their song was based on actual events (or so we have always heard).

I have a strong relationship to God, and a great respect and admiration for him, so, naturally, I am not going to be a fan of songs that glorify insulting or disrespecting Him, and most particularly, when those very songs may help continue the separation between some of the listeners, and the God, they actually, so desperately need!

"It's also very interesting, isn't it? That a song like this got plenty of national airplay, but if a song came along that spoke approvingly of God, it would not be played on that same station, but reduced to being played ONLY on Christian stations."

Now, Craig, you have to know that's just bullshit.

#1 - I never even heard that song before, so I really wonder how much air-play it actually got.

#2 - Amy Grant stuff, "Jesus Is Just Alright With Me," "Let It Be," there have been lots of overplayed songs that mention your faith, or have it as the core topic, whether or not you're willing to admit it. FAR more than this type of song, btw. Double standard? Perhaps, but not in the way you whine about, Craig!

#3 - You often speak as if there is some grand conspiracy against christianity out there. You're paranoid. Other than competing religions, there is nothing & no one out there trying to wipe out the religion, & all they are doing is offering an alternative. Oh, there've been a cpl crazies like that group Venom that tried to "call out your god," & such, but really - get over it! Very few even heard thier hate-filled tripe. Christianity gets more airplay than any religion you can think of. Quitcher bitchin'!

#4 - There are more christian rock stations, & more gospel stations, than any other religion around. Who's representing the other faiths? No one gives a good goddamn. We don't need more of those messages in our secular world, when they're so over-represented in thier own. Even "secular" tv & radio stations often have the "Jesus time" on afternoons, late nights, or at least on Sundays, dude. How many radio or tv shows actually question your religion? Compare that to the number that broadcast it. You've won already but you're too stupid to see it. All you can do us whine for more power, more control of the airwaves & our behaviors & personal beliefs. Nothing is ever enough for you. Not Blue Laws, or mention of your god on our money, crap, I can do nothing without being reminded about your religion, & yet you still want more.

I am so sick of hearing about how ppl pf your faith are so down trodden, so ignored, so abused. You have more air time than anyone. You have more laws influenced by your faith than anyone. You have nearly everything, nearly total control in this country, & still you f*cking whine about your poor poor plight. If Christ were here he'd kick your ass & tell you to get over yourself, I'd bet. Oh, what a shame! Someone else has another point of view, & they dared to AIR IT!!! OMFG THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!

Your bigotry raises its ugly head once again as you call those with different views "punks." It really bugs the sh*t out of you that we all don't see things as you do, doesn't it, Craig?

"It's also very interesting, isn't it? That a song like this got plenty of national airplay, but if a song came along that spoke approvingly of God, it would not be played on that same station, but reduced to being played ONLY on Christian stations."

Now, Craig, you have to know that's just bullshit.

It's not bullsh*t at all.

Songs that positively portray God and especially "Jesus" are not played on rock or alternative stations, as a basic rule. Christian artists know this, and some of them will PURPOSELY leave out the name "Jesus" if they have a song they believe can have cross appeal.

It's a fact.

#1 - I never even heard that song before, so I really wonder how much air-play it actually got.

It got enough to be listed as #61 on "VH1's top-100 one hit wonders of the 80's"

You probably weren't listening to alternative stations much back then, but I was.

#2 - Amy Grant stuff, "Jesus Is Just Alright With Me," "Let It Be,"

You have to go back to the 70's for that? Wow. And Amy Grant started leaving Jesus out of her music in the early 80's when she sought to be a mainstream pop artist, rather than mainly a Christian artist.

That was 20 to 30 years ago Phil.

Talk about holding a grudge, you old man you. LOL

#3 - You often speak as if there is some grand conspiracy against christianity out there.

That's because there is one.

There are literally HUNDREDS of satanic oriented bands and band names out there, over the last decades. Many of them will be played on mainstream radio, but not Christian alternatives. There are entire genres and sub-genres of satan metal alone. There are also sub-genres of Christian music, but the difference is, that one side is allowed on mainstream radio, and the other side not. If you actually listen to the lyrics of Black Sabbath, Godsmack, you name it... They are often perverse, and openly abusive to the person of Jesus, and the message of Christianity. These are ALL allowed on rock radio stations, but NOT the alternative.

Do you know of ANY other religion, who's leader (Jesus) is also a commonly used cuss word?

Do you hear people swear the name "Muhammad!!!" when they stub their toe, or get surprised by something or angry at something?

How is it that Jesus ALONE gets that "privilege"?

The sign of the horns, now identified with rock music in general, is a satanic symbol popularized by Black Sabbath member Ronnie James Dio, who openly states that he intended it to be a satanic message.

Although you could find rock bands using that symbol even before Dio...




How many are aware of subliminal messages being found out, in movies or songs? Are they satanic in nature? Has anyone ever found "Jesus loves you" back-masked on a song, or slipped into a movie scene?

You constantly hear of teachers and schools, which will fail children on something like an art project, when the child chooses as a theme, a picture of Jesus, or something similar, whereas children who use satanic images do not face similar consequences. There are entire non-profit legal groups which exist only to defend the FREE SPEECH RIGHTS of Christians in such instances. Our constitution prohibits GOVERNMENT SANCTIONING of religion, but NOT the free expression of INDIVIDUALS. And yet you will see Christian student led prayer groups threatened, while Muslim groups are allowed to exist. There is even a city in Michigan (?) where they are considering installing Muslim foot baths, to accommodate the large Muslim population of this particular city.

You will be very hard-pressed WORLDWIDE, to find Muslim buildings or groups targeted by Christians, but there are INUMERABLE instances of Christian groups being targeted, murdered, bombed, etc... Many Muslim countries can sentence to DEATH someone found with Christian materials, but WHERE IN THE WORLD do you find Muslims put to death, for having Muslim materials?

Christianity "IS" and has been, under dire threat, for many many years. Muslim sensibilities are respected in far more places, than Christian ones. It is so common to insult Jesus, and Christians, that few people even get embarrassed at doing so, and will loudly and proudly make insults in the most public of places.

It is supposedly "common knowledge" these days, that Christianity is responsible for more deaths in the world, and more wars, than anything else, with the natural conclusion being "The world will be better off without Christians or the Christian religion!"

And yet, I EASILY proved on this very forum, that such a claim is ABSURD and without ANY FACTUAL MERIT whatsoever! When called to task, with the FACTS, does this stop people from spreading such a lie? Hell no! Some of you CONTINUED the same charade, even AFTER being proven wrong!

Why would that be?

Why such intense hatred? Merely because "wacky" people witness to you, from time to time? People are witnessing for SOMETHING every day of their lives. Why is it that any mention of "Jesus" gets such disdain, compared with truly violent religions that are blowing people up, sending mentally ill people, pregnant women, and children, to blow themselves up?

You would think there would be MYRIAD other groups worthy of your hatred, than a man called "Jesus" who preached love and forgiveness, wouldn't you?

This state of affairs exists, because it is a SPIRITUAL BATTLE being fought, rather than a physical one. Something in you, and others like you, is FIGHTING and REBELLING against any sense of OBEDIENCE and deference, to a Creator God, that should be Lord of your life. But you want to continue to USURP His position in your life, and be Lord of your own life. You want to be your own God.

It is not coincidence, that the first recorded sin in the spiritual world (as recorded in the Bible, that is) was Lucifer trying to ascend to God's throne... to be God himself! And then in the physical world, the first recorded sin was Eve eating the forbidden fruit. Why did she eat that fruit? Satan told her, that if she ate the fruit, that she would be like God Himself... she would be her own God!

How is it, that these "first sins" (spiritual and physical) are BOTH THE SAME? The desire to be God myself!

You are fighting God... not me!

You talk as if the songs made 20-30 years ago don't get airplay anymore, Craig. Hardly a day goes by that I don't hear at least one of these songs, usually twice or more in the same day, whether it be on tv, or the radio, or in a store, or in a movie I'm watching. I'm holding no grudge, Craig, cuz I'm hearing the songs, hearing the message, on a daily basis.

As far as what's out there, it is still my decision whether to hear it or not. I have the choice between the stations that play the "wicked" material, & I have the secular stations that give me fluff, & I have your message anytime I want it on innumerable stations in any area of the USA. What's your beef?

Is your christian station gonna play these objectionable songe? I think not. Does that mean your stations are censoring material for thier own gains? Duh...yes! So what's your beef?

Sign of the horns? That was also used for saying "bullshit," which, as far as I can tell, is at the core of your arguments.

Your religion's message is freely available, & is often pushed a bit beyond the limits of either polite behavior or outright legality. What the hell are you griping about? That someone else might get more air time than you? That alternatives are being seen as good? Prove your beliefs or live & let live, man. You already have more time, more space in my life, than any other religion. What's your beef?

What you may consider "satanic" & what I would see are quite possibly worlds apart. From what I'm hearing, the schools' teachers, counsellors, administrators & psychologists are so worried that someone might have a psychological or physical problem, that it's rather unlikely that they would let true evil slide, if it's so blatantly represented as you would have me believe it to be.

I was speaking about your religion's exposure in this country, Craig. What other places do or don't do to accomodate you has no bearing on this argument. We do not yet rule the entire world, as much as you may like to think we should.

I, & others like me, are tired of hearing how bad things are for christians. From what I see, you have it pretty damned good. You have influenced my life more than any other religion, whether I want you to or not, & it constantly sounds like you want to have ever more power & influence over my choices &, thus, my decisions. That makes ME the oppressed one, NOT you, Craig. Even your god gives me free choice, something you seem as though you'd like to remove.

When we try to have more choices, more options, you object & demand equal time to EVERYTHING else out that's there. You want me to spend 1/2 my time hearing & responding to your message, & only your message, while everything else has to fight for what's left. You're pushing too hard. You're demanding too much of my attention.

This life right here in my body is MY OWN, Craig, NOT YOURS TO PROGRAM.

What you perceive as a "spiritual battle," I am seeing more & more as you & your ilk trying harder & harder to force me into your religion, to remove my choices, & those of my children. Step out of your christian self for just a frikken second, & try to see things through someone else's point of view. This looks far more like a frightened man trying to push his fears upon others, than it does a "spiritual battle." Again & again I hear you talking like myriad others have before you - "the end is nigh, so you'd better come to the light or face the consequences." I won't live in that fear. I choose to live my life as well as I can, & enjoy it as much as I can, before it's taken away from me by time or disease or accident or some religious zealot's bullet. The things I may want to do aren't really recognized as acceptable in your mind. Get over it.

You aren't Noah, & I ain't about to drown in a flood on my high ground.

In any secular society, any truly respectable form of gov't that isn't trying to dictate the choices of its citizenry, one faith shouldn't have any more time than any other faith on the airwaves, yet you have more than everyone, combined, & are crying still that you don't have enough. What's your beef?

I think I know what your beef is. You're mad that we all don't listen to your word as though it were god's own. Sorry, but I ain't going down the road that you would choose for me, &, in this country, at least, that's my "god-given right." (...at least in theory...LOL)

Craig, if you know of one song by Black Sabbath that is anti-god please post it. In the meantime here's one of their songs:

"After Forever"

Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love

Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run
Will you still sneer when death is near
And say they may as well worship the sun?

I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ
I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced
Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe?
You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve

Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone
Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one
The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate
Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.

Craig, if you know of one song by Black Sabbath that is anti-god please post it.

N.I.B. (Nativity in Black)
by Black Sabbath

Some people say MY LOVE cannot be true
Please believe me, MY LOVE, and I'll show you
I will give you those things you thought unreal . . .
YOUR LOVE FOR ME has just got to be real . . .
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am
MY NAME IS LUCIFER, PLEASE TAKE MY HAND!"


There are others if you want me to post them.

Black Sabbath actually gave "alter calls" during their concerts, where they invited kids to walk the aisle and receive Satan as their lord.



Man in the Box
by Alice in Chains

I'm the man in the box
Buried in my sh*t
Won't you come and save me, save me

Feed my eyes, can you sew them shut?
Jesus Christ, deny your maker
He who tries, will be wasted
Feed my eyes now you've sewn them shut


Chop Suey
by Systen of a Down

father father father father
father into your hand ,i commend my spirit
father into your hand ,why have you forsaken me
in your eyes forsaken me
in your thoughts forsaken me
in your heart forsaken me ohh
trust in my self righteous suicide (Jesus)
i cry when angels deserve to die


There are so many others of course. I put a few of these, cause they are more mainstream groups, not labeling themselves as satanic or anti-christian oriented, like most black metal, and many death metal bands.

So no comment on After Forever? Or the fact that it's on their third album while N.I.B. was on their first?

It's the job of the artist to push boundries and make people think. If you don't like free speech this is the wrong country for you.

Oh eeek! This is almost as bad as those Hieronymus Bosch paintings that depict hell in ways that make it look...well...kinda cool, to some ppl.

You're talking (pretty bad) theater, Craig, & (mostly pretty bad) poetry. If your message is too weak to stand up to that, I'm sorry.

Still, my argument stands. You have to look for this kind of entertainment, more often than not, while one cannot escape your religion's propaganda, which has become such a huge part of our lives. Between the two, you have far more influence, yet you cry out every time there's something or someone you perceive as "anti-christian" out there, be it a politician with a funny-sounding name, or a beer on a Sunday, or a raped pregnant woman who wishes an abortion, or scientific study or presentation of the scientists' findings, or a book of fantasy; on the one hand, while you ignore many of the tenets of your own religion, on the other. You have cheered as your gov't played god, & wiped out entire cities with a single bomb (can you say Hiroshima?). You find nothing inherently wrong with making life intolerable, & at times unliveable, for innocent children with economic sanctions & actual barricades against those countries with whom you have issue. No one complains that ppl are encouraged to work 13, or even 20 days straight, for all the extra money they can get. The list of hypocracy & outright anti-humanity could go on interminably...

The biggest problems I see with christianity is that, in practice, it gives far too many excuses & priveledges for ppl who have or are trying to get that almighty dollar, while the churches keep asking for more [so they may spread the word as they do good deeds (i.e., rewarding those who convert while they often ignore the plights of those who refuse your offers of eternal salvation)]. And all the while, you talk the talk, but don't walk the walk, showing off your pride in your choice with messages printed on your bumper stickers on the car you cut ppl off with. You are prone to cry wolf, especially every 100 years or so. Your leaders & your followers are too much like the original disciples, fighting amongst yourselves over trivia, each of you claiming to know god's real message, & thus all other religions, & even other christian sects, will suffer hell until they see things your way. You claim such pride & such empowerment, while you wring your hands & cry "foul!" anytime someone has a different view, or performs a "satanic rite." You demand 100% of our attention, 100% of the time. Invariably, your message returns to your endless desire for total control.

No religion other than the judean/christian/moslem Abrahamic model has done this to any degree. Your success in world domination has, at its source, the blood of entire populations of non-believers, far more than the "reality of your message." It is a religion based on guilt & punishment, far more than on the love you profess. You have more power in this country than the atheists or the other religions you fear so much, yet you endlessly remind us of how much you have to suffer to be a christian at the hands of the godless hordes out there trying to destroy you. You have far more power in this supposedly secular nation than you deserve, or are legally allowed, yet you won't shut up about how you're being reduced in ranks (untrue), how you are in danger of being eradicated (bullshit), and how the rest of us are hurting you by simply trying to be.

If the christians actually spent 1/2 as much time being "christian," they wouldn't have the time to be seeking out all of these supposed threats aginst them, & they'd get a lot more followers, I'd wager. But you're all too caught up in your fears, which makes me question the actual limits of your god's power, if these trivialities can so easily make you angry & afraid.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for you, & I ain't buying your BS. In fact, the only danger I see is to my freedom at your hands, the freedom to raise my child as I see fit, to worship or not as I see fit, to get adequate education or treatments for my physical ills, to choose or not to choose to live like you.

For me, you & your god are just too damned hungry, & it scares the living hell out of me.