Music Industry Discussion

The only complaint I have about Christian rock is that it sounds "same-y" and uninspired..

Seriously dude, did you check out my band, and it's not Rock, it's metal.

Let me know what you think about the material?
Thanks.

OK let me see if I can say this in the best way possible.

Your recordings are good, your playing is good. I can't hear what you are saying most of them time in the singing but that sort of goes with Metal anyway.

The issue I have with this genre is oddly....philosophical. Rock/Metal was established as a type of rebellion. The power of the drums, the howl of the guitars, the scream of the vocalists all say "EFF YOU" to the establishment. And rightly so, as the Establishment has caused so much wrong and so much strife, it needed a force extending the middle finger to it.

However, Christianity - especially modern American Evangelical Christianity - is rooted in a King James/Martin Luther flavor of Protestantism that is anything BUT rebellious. It is in fact staunchly conservative, socially and politically. Martin Luther himself said that rebellion is an act of the Devil (weird, seeing as he was a rebel himself so I suppose that's for another thread). The message of the Christ mind, as I understand it, is "I have overcome the world" and that we are all in fact One in "The Body". This is a message of peace and tranquility. It is the stellar opposite of rebellion and resistance, which speak to Separation, which is the kernel of Rock/Metal. So hopefully you can see how this "doesn't follow".

I get this bizarre feeling that Christian Metal is trying to play both sides of the fence. Believers who badly want to claim the Mantle of Evangelist, but Rock n Roll Hedonists that also want to have the edge of the rebellious bad boy. Just my dos pesos, but I haven't seen it believably done yet.

And I'm not sure it can be.

VERY COOL!

The beauty of Free will is that it's OK to dissagree.
Since no one can Judge (look down on or say what's right or wrong) besides God (who ever he/she ends up being) it makes it all right to dissagree with another human.

VERY COOL!

The beauty of Free will is that it's OK to dissagree.
Since no one can Judge (look down on or say what's right or wrong) besides God (who ever he/she ends up being) it makes it all right to dissagree with another human.

On that we can agree, and I hope that you continue on in what you know you must do. I refer to that as a "personal legend" and everybody has one.

Irminsul wrote:
Rock/Metal was established as a type of rebellion. The
However, Christianity - especially modern American Evangelical Christianity - is rooted in a King James/Martin Luther flavor of Protestantism that is anything BUT rebellious.
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BTW your first problem with Christian music WAS strictly musical "my only problem with music is that it all sounds the "same-y"

But this is good.
To say that Rock and Metal belong to "evil" or "rebelion" because of it's first appearance in the light of your example is intersting.

All talent, ability, knowledge, power, ALLL comes first from God. If you don't agree, that's the end of our conversation simply because we can't go anyfurther on that vein. But if you do, then all forms of "evil" or rebellion are inherently distiortions of what God has first made.

There is not a "diminished Fmin" Chord or a "WICKED RIFF" that is evil in and of itself. IF you put things in it that are contrary to the Bible, it would THEN BY THE BIBLES standards, be a pure thing with evil content.

For instance, Sex,,, AWESOMELY MADE BY GOD!!! He says, (in essence) "no sex before marriage,,, inside of marriage, its TOTALLY BLESSED THOUGH and you can do whatever your heart desires and whatever your mind can think of,,, as long as it's only with the one you married"

So satan comes, unable to create, takes what God has made,,, which is pure, and in order to get someone to sin, he tempts them NOT WITH WHAT IS GOOD, but has to distort something that is pure and cause it to dabble into something that is against God. (being that GOD is the enemy of satan)

SO sex outside of marriage is BORN!!!
So satan says to himself: "sex is good,,, lets make it evil by doing what is good in the unallowed context, therefore, it is sin against God!!!"

So is sex evil? No, it's pure. Is sex outside of marriage wrong,,, to GOD, yes.

BACK TO MUSIC, no music belongs to the devil as far as it's origian.
People who make music with lyrics, intents, and or results of evil are simply taking something PURE and using it for evil.

Just like the middle finger. Is it a SPECIAL EVIL FINGER? No.
USED in a certain way, is it,,, yes.

God never says that a certain food, thing, or activity is evil in itself in his word OUTSIDE of the KOSHER LAW, which he used to show the captivity of the LAW which he later "DID AWAY WITH". The things that GOD defines as "the world" or "wordly" are ALL attitudes, mindsets, and actions or thoughts backed by ill motives. CHRIST IS AFTER THE HEART, not the surface or appearance.

When the guys from AC/DC played the RIFF from HIGH WAY TO HELL, where those NOTES, or THOSE RIFFS EVIL? NO. When they wrote the lyrics glorifying rebellion? Yes. (in Jesus eyes)

Are ALL magazines evil because someone decided to start putting PORN in them? NO! VHS cassets, DVD'S, BLUERAYS? NO!

So as for music of a certain type being evil. Come on. That's ridicullous if you're trying to say that the GOD of the Bible thinks that a certain type of music is inherently evil.

That type of music that brings agression, is not sin. Is football sin because it's agressive? Coud football be looked at as a form of REBELION? sure, all just a matter of those LOOKING to define REBELLION, in something. (OPINION)
What about all the Symbols of scarry things, Bats, Spiders, Snakes, SKULLS, FLAMES, all NASTY LOOKING (to some) but all GOD made.

A GREAT WHITE SHARK, FREAKIN AMAZING!!!! MADE to VIOLENTLY KILL CUTE LITTLE BABY SEALS AND KEEP ON DOING IT TILL DEATH!!! FRIGHTENING POWER, AGRESSION, and PRIMAL INSTINCT!!!
Another creation of GOD.

Yes, if a Christian artist is trying to "act like evil, KINDA SORTA, to reach out and be godly" it's pathetic. Christ called us to be free and enjoy all that he made for us. ALSO to be like him, and He never tried to act like evil to win anyone over,,, but HI DID try to set people straight when they were being bound by the LIES of his enemy. satan.

The God who made, AWESOME LIGHTING, SEX, RAGING STORMS, MOLTENT HOT LAVA, FIRE, Space, Earthquakes, TOTALLY GNARLY THINGS IN THE WILD THAT KILL FOR FOOD, and THE GIFT OF MUSIC ITSELF!!!,,, if he didn't make metal than who did? Is METAL TO AGRESSIVE for a God who makes things like this?? Remember has NO power to create anything.

If you care to see examples of agression based on GODS PROMPTING, look at david before he was King.
He REBELLED against the evil that was in the land. BY THE HOLY SPIRIT he killed a GIANT with a stone and CUT OFF HIS HEAD IN GOD HONORING BATTLE to defend the HONOR of God's holy name!! Moses was TOLD to rebel against pharo to free Gods people, THROUGH HIM, He sent PLAUGES OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION!!!

Christians are to be like their master Christ.

1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might DESTROY the works of the devil.

You wrote:
However, Christianity - especially modern American Evangelical Christianity - is rooted in a King James/Martin Luther flavor of Protestantism that is anything BUT rebellious.

YOu're right,,, what YOU'VE seen has been, but that's not like my master.

JESUS,, not rebelious? What about flipping over tables and driving people out,,, and COMANDING MIGHTY DEMONS TO FLEE?

Do MIGHTY DEMONS COWER under week people who can not appose their power? Do DEMONS TREMBLE at the sound of my name, yours?
(I'll list these referenses from the Bible if you like, just put it in your next reply)

NO, this is a GOD who APOSESS evil,,, like the flipping over of tables and driving out money changers in his Fathers house, THAT IS THE SPIRIT of Christians who play WHAT GOD MADE TO GLORIFY HIMSELF. We're APPOSING the lie that Music, or SEX, or MONEY in themself are EVIL or belonging to the devil. It looks like we're trying to be like the world because so many ARE, it looks just as bad as the CRUSADES!!! EVIL under a good name.

No my friend, God's Children rebel against the prince of this world,, satan. I'm not going to go allong with the crowd because I'm scarred of a bunch of souls that don't even know what the bible actually says. I'm gonna follow my saviors example and DRIVE OUT those things that should not be,,, in this case, "driving out" practically means to play what GOD INTENDED FOR HIMSELF in a world that is trying to tell me that music (of any kind) can be attributed to satan.

They say "keep music evil" and I say, it never was evil, just like sex.
I think most people see a babtist church with a suit and tie pastor, over a church of 20 members that's all SONGY and happy with hymnals and such, and JUST ASSUME that Christ is boring, passive, week and lame.

Dude please don't take this as condisending,,, I'm NOT trying to get you upset,,, a lot get's lost in translation.
It's amazing, the things you find in the bible when you look for yourself, rather than take others EMPTY observations from affar. (not speaking of yours, but obviously those observations were not saught out in depth)

Romans 8
6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8Those CONTROLLED by the sinful nature cannot please God.,,, 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, YOU WILL DIE (talking of the spiritual, eternal death) ; but if by the Spirit (meaning that NO MAN CAN DO IT WITHOUT GOD) you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live(speaking of ETERNAL LIFE)

THIS IS CHRIST REBELIOUS GOAL!!!
15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you A SLAVE AGAIN TO FEAR, but you received the Spirit of sonship.

The Bible says that we are slaves to sin, and I'm sure that at some point in life you've seen some type of glympse of this as we all have if were being honest.
He desires us to be FREE, he has rebelled against OUR self induced CAPTIVITY!

I know it's long, I'm sorry.
thanks for listening. I'm glad you gave it a whirl.

Tony Parma
www.myspace.com/DITD1

VERY COOL!

The beauty of Free will is that it's OK to dissagree.
Since no one can Judge (look down on or say what's right or wrong) besides God (who ever he/she ends up being) it makes it all right to dissagree with another human.

On that we can agree, and I hope that you continue on in what you know you must do. I refer to that as a "personal legend" and everybody has one.

BTW this last "VERY COOL" reply was to WEGMAN, but cool!
Right on,,,
"I may not be able to prove what I KNOW to be true, but I know that I still have to try!"
-John Petrucci

Well I missed alot in the past couple of days. When I talk about you being judgemental I was speaking about the way you talk about the women at bars. I'm just wondering where in the bible it states looking attractive is wrong?

Some do look like prostitutes but what if they are really nice people who are actually doctors who save lives or even a ministers daughter? Are they still bad.

EVerything you say is of this great conviction that god supposedly wants you to do. I'm all for a spiritual journey but I don't see the point in pushing others into my path.

Also how many times has god actually spoken to you? Do you see god? If so what does he look like. I mean since you and the mighty JC are so close that he chose you of all people in the world to spread this message with the conviction of a psychopath. Why are you so special. I mean I talk to god and me and him have little chats about things but I mean obviously i'm on the sh*t end of the stick if he has already chosen his one person to spread his message.

All i'm trying to point out to you friend is to CHILL OUT! I don't think anyone in here is your enemy yet the conversations go on as if it's a bikering match. It's cool to see where the conversation has gone and that you have calmed down. ya know I don't trust the bible for one reason. Do you know how many different interpritations there are. Also did you know that some of the bible was changed to fit the time period that man was in?

I suggest you delve into the history of the bible before you go and shout things from it. Some of them are true to form but with so many ways to translate it who has the real bible and who is pushing lies. I mean it would really suck when you die and your standing at the gates St Peter won't let you in cause you were teaching something false to the people.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to have to deal with that.

Daniel you raise an interesting point. There is a long history in Christendom of Priests/preachers/evangelists focusing their anger and prayers on pretty, lusty women. My personal opinion is that they do this because their desire to "turn around these foul strumpets" is coupled with a very sinister desire to also get into their pants.

See the mad Cardinal in the story of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". He is obsessed with the gorgeous dark eyed Gypsy woman Esmerelda, and cloaks his red hot sexual desire for her as a paternal mission to save her from "sin".

I think there are many mad cardinals these days wandering the bars and clubs with an eye on saving all these sinnin' wimmin - with a deep seated hope that they will show their gratitude by spreading their legs.

Yet if we are not of there perish or we don't agree with them we ourselves and everything we do is not with god in mind lol. It's saddening that things haven't really changed from the middle ages. Hell Bush had that guy who wrote the books "Left Behind" as his spiritual advisor.

Now here is the funny part the guy who wrote those books agreed with a cult back in the 80's that the world was going to end. Of course when the world didn't the guy felt like a jackass and went into hiding lol but this guy has been to the white house and been infecting them with his own version of how things are going to be. He's almost like a puppateer just guiding us down the road to the end of the world.

I am all for god comeing back I wouldn't mind talking with him but there ain't no need in making it happen faster then it should lol.

Ok i'm off point. I think it has always been that way though. I mean the priests raping little boys. Ya know I think back in the day they might have actually raped women but sense we got the whole womens rights and all that stuff they just decided they should go into something else like the choir boys lol.

Well it seems you've both taken the "high" road and started assuming, and character bashing. Also dodging the explenations of music. It's not GODS WORD, it's just my opinion on the examples from scripture that show anthing but a passive (opposite of REBELLION) God.

2ndly. The the man who does NOT take his faith seriously. I am chosen as every FOLLOWER (meaning you actually try to do the things in his word) of Christ. I'm a sinner, I fail, I'm not always walking in PERFECT purity with my GORGEOUS fiance, (putting to rest, at least for me, the foolish theory that I'm trying to get in womens pants) So I'm not special.

I'm under the Grace of God and TOTALLY not the only one, but HAD you read your bible (seeing how you "say" you are a follower of CHirst) you would have read that we ARE CALLED TO BE HIS EMBASSEDORS and PROCLAIM THE TRUTH! You think I'm psyco or somthing for speaking truth because you truly have no understanding of what is actually expected by CHRIST of his followers. NO we never have to achiev perfection, he is perfect. But it does say "strive to be holy as I am holy"
It doesn't make us MORE or LESS LOVED.

As for the women in bars that do dress revealingly, my heart goes out to them. They don't know how valuable they are, how precious they are, and YES I AM WILLING TO SAY IT, some of them CHOSE to lack the integrity to cover up. "Integrity, what's that, haven't heard that in a while"
You attack me simply becaue I'm standing for integrity instead of lowering my standards like my surrounds. Be mad for all I care, but know this; I don't look down on ANY of the women I just talked about, the BIBLE says that without Christ man is blind to their ways, the ways and their consiquences, good or bad. JUST BLIND. I love my fiance, she's a TOTALLY HOT PETITE women with a SMOKIN BODY! I have no desire for women who YES CHEAPLY put it all out there for nothing left to the imagination.

Call me what you want, I'm just more willing to give women more respect by not giving in to what could be THEIR blindness. WOMEN deserve more respect and are to be treated as sacred, not as some object of some horny guys lust.

Dissagree all I want, I'm proud that I STILL have integrity in this Dark world. Do I hate anyone, lookdown, NO, but will I say that I'll back down just to please your low standards. Never.

Thanks anyway, I'll stick with treating women as sacred rather than using the cop out "God made em good look'n so why not indulge in their beauty"

Tony

As for the women in bars that do dress revealingly, my heart goes out to them. They don't know how valuable they are, how precious they are, and YES I AM WILLING TO SAY IT, some of them CHOSE to lack the integrity to cover up.
Tony

Oh Tony, now come ON. You have no way of knowing what those individual women are "missing" in their lives - that's a very silly assumption. I know plenty of drop dead gorgeous women who dress revealingly, and it's not because they lack integrity or are missing something in their lives. It's because they look good, they KNOW it, and they like to celebrate it. What in the Goddess's Green Earth is wrong with that?

Assuming that anyone, man or woman, who does not prefer to live your lifestyle is doing so from some lack of fullfilment is the height of facile presumption. Arrogant even.

No I totally hear what you're saying! I agree, there's nothing wrong with celebrating the body! Marriage itself is a celebration of Unity and SEX!

But what I was meaning, and what you added how "they look good and they know it",,,

MODESTY is in the eye of the beholder. So that to me is not the issue here. My standard of modisty would make some people think I'm gay simply because we're coming from two different sides of the fence all together. SO I'll leave that alone.

The point I was trying to make was just that I think EVEN THE DROP DEAD GORGEOUS GIRLS you mentioned, who do this willingly to gain attention deserve a love that leaves only ONE person who is willing to be comitted to them for life, the GIFT of seeing that. If you don't mind having your wifes nude shots up on the INTERNET then by all means this doesn't apply to you either. IN OTHER WORDS, dress like a peice of meat, and you'll only attract wolves!!!! "why can't I ever get a man who wants me for me?" as she pulls her miniskirt up a little more past her crotch.

DAVE CHAPEL said it right,,, IF I DRESSED LIKE A POLICE MAN, and you came running up to me and said HELP HELP HELP!!! I would say, "just because I'm dressed like this, doesn't mean I am like this. In the same way ladies,,, if you dress like a prostitute,,,, why should we think any different. THESE are the words of DAVE CHAPEL!!! NOT A CHRISTIAN! It's obvious,but when a Christian says anything about it, it's "oh those Christians!!! There they go off the deep end!" It's so obvious and simple yet because of reasons unknown and CONTRARY to common knowledge, you make an issue of it as if I am the only person who thinks this way.

Lastly, the standards and message that any follower of Christ brings, that are FROM the bible and not man made are not his own, but CHRIST'S/GOD'S own standards.

Arrogant,,, can God be arrogant?
If so he's the only one with the right to be.

I am only obeying my master.

Tony
www.myspace.com/DITD1

It's funny you should say that word. I have used and followed that word along with selfless service, Honor, Respect and a whole boockoo of other words. Integrity has nothing to do with dress codes. INtegrity is being honest with yourslef and everyone else. I think that women who aren't afraid to show what god gave them is a strong since of honesty and a sense of power.

Now I am taking no high road or talking down to you. I'm just trying to show you that you still have a long way to go. I know the bible. The king james version as well as the Mormon version. I have read the Quaren. Unlike you I do not isolate myself to one nor the other. Reasearch your bible and you will see how the years have not been so TRUTHFUL to the supposed work of the lord.

You say you are an embassedor for god? lol trust me God doesn't need your help. He has his own way of showing people what they need. You may have been called for some higher purpose but i'm telling you the way you are going about it is the path of destruction.

I would love to see you walk up to a women and say that she MUST be a prostitute because of what she is wearing lol. Dave chepelle was using that reference for his TV show not for the reason you are using it. Yet again I reiterate study your bible's history and you will see the same atrocities in the writing.

So Dave Chapelle isn't a christian? hmmm..... I dont' know a single black person that isn't christian. You want to talk about people who have the fear of god in them and here I thought you weren't judgmental of people. That is truly amazing. Anyone who reads what you have written on here will surely no that you are a psycopath.

You have done no research you speak blindly. You read from a text that even you use the wrong way. You judge people you dont' even know as to whether they are christian or not. If my preacher read what you have written he would say devil be gone.

You warp the supposed words of truth to fit what you believe and that is what most people do with there religeon. Religeon is nothing but man made. FAITH is all in the person. I claim no religeon I only claim that I am christian because I know god exists I know that Jesus died for me and I know that someway or the other I have to do my best. If god wishes to bless me with heaven then I will thank him. If he doesn't I will tell him I expected it cause I KNOW that I am a sinner and as they say in the good ole south... I ain't scared.

Yet again brother I have no ill feeling towards you cause i've seen your kind so many times. It doesn't bother me one bit the way you are. Here is the sad part I have almost grown numb to people like you and I really shouldn't. All I ask is that you research the history of the bible, The dead Sea scrolls, EVerything.

There is a wealth of knoweledge left in the world especially on the grace of god please don't let one book keep you from knowing god's true love. Ghandi is a great person to read up on. He wasn't christian but his Ideals were the same. How can he bad if all he wanted was for the world to love each other. Think god hated him just cause he wasn't christian? I don't think so.

Again I reiterate that I am not against you my friend. I guess instead of standing idely by and just let you keep spitting out dribble I finally decided to say something. The road of faith is a long and hard one. It's a journey everyman has to take on his own. Just like the other guy in this conversation he said the Goddesses green earth. That is a Pagain thing at least from my studies that is. Hell I used to be pagan lol.

Anyway I do not rule out a goddess of the earth only because god couldn't be alone. He needed something to sew his seeds in. Jesus has even been speculated to be married and no i'm not talking about the Devinci code. I am merely speaking from reasearch I did back in high school on jeruselem.

This conversation can go on and on and on and I think it probably will cause i know your type. You won't back down until you get someone in here to agree with you and that is fine. Just at least sit and meditate on the words that we share.

Your not alone out there in this and someday you will understand what that means.

The point I was trying to make was just that I think EVEN THE DROP DEAD GORGEOUS GIRLS you mentioned, who do this willingly to gain attention deserve a love that leaves only ONE person who is willing to be comitted to them for life, the GIFT of seeing that.

Whoa there Hoss, there you go assuming again!

First off, who says they crave such attention? I think you're not grasping something here. Some people (and not only women) simply like to celebrate the way they look by just being that way...in a public place or in private. Enjoying your youth/beauty is not a sin, nor is not a cry for help!

Secondly, since when is a bar-goer always looking for a life partner?? I was 18 once. I remember going to nightclubs for years. Meeting women, sometimes going home with them and having mind blowing sex and NOT planning to propose marriage to them the next morning. I did this off and on for years, as millions and millions do. I wasn't looking for a marriage partner! In fact I was looking for just the opposite...a one nighter or shallow relationship at best. When I was READY at the age of 45 to commit to marry and stay committed for life to one special woman, she appeared and here we are today.

Do I regret my wreckless abandon bedhopping in earlier years? Hell NO. I wouldnt take back a minute of it. Nor do I expect a woman to.

DAVE CHAPEL said it right,,, IF I DRESSED LIKE A POLICE MAN, and you came running up to me and said HELP HELP HELP!!! I would say, "just because I'm dressed like this, doesn't mean I am like this. In the same way ladies,,, if you dress like a prostitute,,,, why should we think any different.

Wait a minute...dressing for a fun night at a dance club is dressing like a prostitute? Can you possibly be serious?

Lastly, the standards and message that any follower of Christ brings, that are FROM the bible and not man made are not his own, but CHRIST'S/GOD'S own standards.

Written by MEN. Mistranslated thousands of times by MEN.

Arrogant,,, can God be arrogant?

Sometimes. Llugh Law Gyffes had his arrogant days. Humans? You bet. Lots.

If so he's the only one with the right to be.

I am only obeying my master.

This may be the biggest difference between us. I have no master. I am not a slave. I think for myself, and serve no scripture, creed or dogma. If I did, that would really piss off my Gods because they created me wild and free. And expect me to never sacrifice that.

As the song goes -

"For I'm a Son of The Wild One
Who loves, and lets me be
My skin, my bones, my heretic heart
Are my authority."

I can't add anything to that lol. on the money man on the money lol.

I am absolutely serious. Just wait until you have a daughter who dresses like some of the women at bars. I must agree to disagree friend. You can deny it if you want to but you don't put on a rain coat if you're not expecting rain. You dress HOT, you're looking for attention. You showing all of your cleavage, you're expecting attention. You're wearing a mini skirt, with a mid-drift that goes up to the bottom of your nipples, you're looking for attention. OR is NO MAN going to look at her at all when she dresses this way? If the rail road rails guards come down, you expect a train. Or would you say that I'm just assuming to much?Girls who wear words on their behinds. YEP dressing to get someone to look at there buns. Or maybe those words are "magical" words that are ment to be absorbed and not read? And I agree to disagree again, I do belive that If a women dresses like the above examples and alike, that if that's not like a prostitute then fine, Hookers must stand in the nude these days. Instead sex, they're giving of visions of themself for free, instead of cash, they gain the attention that gives power or a number of other ATTAINED/earned feelings. Deny what you want, but it's simple, a rain cloud suggests rain, a dorsil fin suggests Shark, a sexy outfit suggests a women wanting to get extra sexual attention. Why leave the door open if no one's coming home? All comon sense. Or have we all become the ultimate fools, believing mortal man to have any good in them apart from a pure God of Love and forgiveness?
We're just going to have to disagree. Also on the faith issue, I love my master and willingly have given him my life, I don't expect anyone else to do so at the prompting of a MANS faith. That's God's place and his alone. Believe what you want. I wipe the dust off of my sandles, so to speak.

But like I said, thanks for the Challenging disgussion.
Tony Parma
www.myspace.com/ditd1