General Music Chat

I have stayed out of this rambling thus far but I have to say I am a little hurt. Not that anyone gives a flying f**k.

I just want to share the good news I have, and I am used to persicution.

Yet this: Are the members of this site going to constipate the forum with threads like this? Go find a Jesus site to push your religious beliefs. Kinda stings.

What about my First Amendment rights?

You guys can sing about anything you like. Why cant I?

Me and mine will praise the LORD.

Hey sans. I care, man. I doubt that that post was meant for you, but was written in the heat of the moment, at least it's my hope. Ppl have become pretty tired of this thread. It's just frustration talking. Don't take it personally when things get out of hand, as they seem to do whenever a disruptive influence gets going on a thread.

As far as whatever you want to sing about, you GO, boy! I'm all for it, even if my beliefs are different.

I want to say that I appreciate the fact that you don't hit us with all the lengthy posts, or try to force anyone to your way of thinking, all while staying true to your beliefs. You're a good christian, for that if for nothing else. Teach by example. Yep. I respect you a lot, & hate to see you, too, get worked up in this clusterfuck.

So far there have been several ppl at each others' throats over ths stupid, stupid thing. It's a damned shame that it occurs. But I expct it to continue for awhile yet before it simmers down. Take heart, though. We'll be back to our old selves soon, grid willing.

Thanks Phil.
Bees soooo glad when I have some music to put up here again!

Really, seriously...

Are the members of this site going to constipate the forum with threads like this? Go find a Jesus site to push your religious beliefs.

As far as man, myth, or legend; Father or phanton; Goddess or God; no deity whatsoever -- we're all composed of the same stuff that filled the universe upon formation. Whether created, or formed from colliding dust and debris. There are no new air molecules (for example) from the time of formation of the universe. We are breathing all of the same ones. There are no new atoms that have formed. In fact, scientifically speaking, there is nothing new in the universe. Whatever "force" is driving this universe, therefore, is in each and every one of us, since there is nothing new. We are made of the same "stuff" as Moses, Jesus, Socrates, Napolean, Caesar, etc (and breathing the same air as well).

What is the point in arguing a belief? By the very definition, you cannot prove a spiritual belief. It is not a factual thing, it is a spiritual thing. Who is anyone here to tell anyone else they are wrong for what they believe? A whole spiritual movement's entire spiritual existance is based on book that wasn't even published in its entirety. The bible is missing more than half of the tablets and transcripts that it should have if you want to have a complete work to reference. The authors of the books were not even around to account for the actual events that are portrayed in the bible. These are written accounts of stories passed down through generations of believers. Who's to say if half of the events actually happened, or if any of the material is true? It is a belief.

That is very close to what my church believes. We all come from energy. One energy, we are not subserviant to it, though its power may appear godlike in the non-physical form, we are part of it. Energy we will return to when we die. Our belief is that we have found the tools (the sacred markers, marijuana, peyote, mushrooms, and sage) to connect with that energy. Using all the books of the bible, including the ones you mentioned were taken out, we have found traces of our practices in ancient religious practices that belong to all the faiths of abraham...but that the stories are based in experiences that were interpreted by less developed human minds as god encounters, when a more advanced mind sees it for what it is, a connection to our origin, while still alive here in the physical. Enducing out of body experiences that will make being "filled with the spirit" as evangelicals call it, seem like a trip to gatorland...

but I digress...when the name calling began, i tried to stay out of the conversation as much as possible. It is not brotherly, and we are all brothers and sisters in the spirit.

I have stayed out of this rambling thus far but I have to say I am a little hurt. Not that anyone gives a flying f**k.

I just want to share the good news I have, and I am used to persicution.

Yet this: Are the members of this site going to constipate the forum with threads like this? Go find a Jesus site to push your religious beliefs. Kinda stings.

What about my First Amendment rights?

You guys can sing about anything you like. Why cant I?

Me and mine will praise the LORD.

you are right to get upset when someone mocks your beliefs, but don't ever stop letting people test your faith...whatever you believe in...as long as you are true to yourself and you follow the universal law, do no harm, then you are in favor with the universe, god, and yourself. always keep searching and don't let the rhettoric of man disuade you from seeking through any means. People say don't smoke pot, its bad for you and an abomination to god, if you choose to not smoke it, so be it, but dont be afraid to seek god in it, after all he made it right? god made pot, man made wine, who do you trust?

Anyway, keep being a non-hypocritical-Christian and you are truly on a path of righteousness, just never let it go to your head.

Phil,

For someone who doesn't care, you sure have a lot to say about it. And you ask me questions, but when I answer them, then I am criticised by you for it. Get a grip. Ignore me if it is unimortant. I sure didn't ask your opinion about any of it.


Pocket,

You are right in much of what you said. Beliefs are beliefs. Spiritual things cannot be conclusively proven. I am not trying to prove anything to anyone, merely sharing MY experiences. And no one is going to tell me whether I am allowed to share them or not. No one consults me about sharing how they hate certain bands or singers, or other countries, or illegal aliens or anything else.

And haven't you noticed, that putting DOWN God and religion, are perfectly acceptable, just not sharing them in a positive light. When someone posts videos demeaning God or religion, do I cry for my momma? Do I get all bent out of shape? I just share my own experiences back.

As to the Bible, which manuscripts were included or not was a lengthy process involving MANY years and MANY theologians. They arrived at general consensus, and the first New Testament was cannonized. The Catholics however have a slightly different version, and new agists have decided that other manuscripts were left out wrongly, and they have written books on this through the years.

Read what you want, and see what your prayers and heart tell you.

I don't have a problem accepting that there were real manuscripts that could have been included, but... they had a very thorough and well thought out and prayed out process of decising which were true or not. If there was doubt, I agree with them that it was best to leave them out.

But I can find God's inspiration in MANY places, including the Koran, various Buddhist texts (they don't have any single holy book) and other places bro. Poetry, music, you name it. You can find God's inspiration in many places, and they are holy to me, wherever I find them.


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Hey sans. I care, man. I doubt that that post was meant for you,

No, it was meant for me mostly.

And it just proves my point. Being demeaning to Christianity is always ok, and no one worries about how anyone else will feel about it. It is the new culture. It is so accepted, that no one even concerns themselves with how many people would be insulted by it. We have graduated past the "N" word, only to replace it by Christianity. As normal as slavery was in the South, now demeaning Christians is becoming normal. Does the world HAVE to have something or someone to throw their hatred upon?

And Phil, you started the downward slope with all your personal attacks.

I didn't attack you personally or say anything disparaging to you early on. I was sharing something on my heart. And I got hammered for sharing my viewpoint. Mostly by you!

You can trash the country all day long, and no one should care. But I make a post that we are on the verge of collapse, and you are ready to pounce. Apparently you are the only one allowed to have a viewpoint and express it. Right?

Not always, but very often, the thing people accuse others of the most, is the very thing they are guilty of. I relish other viewpoints. You pounce on them, and can't be bothered listening, even though you are all too happy to share your own. Maybe it is YOU who is the self righeous and self absorbed one here, since that seems to be your common theme.

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Mikey,

first and foremost: you are clearly going out of your way to disrespect me by giving me a name that suggest you are talking down to me, or that I am your jr/pet... and it seems like the last resort of a desperate debater.
While I, on the other hand, am a master (de) bater (hehe). Laugh for a minute... don't take things too seriously, but do give me the respect I deserve.

For one thing, you're adding your own time-frames to things. Show me where I mentioned a matter of 6-months. That's what I consider spinning.

admittedly you never mentioned 6 months. I grabbed that out of the air arbitrarily. 6 months, a year, 2 years: has no impact on the point.

Cheap labor had taken over the cabinet business here years ago.

let me make this clear: my argument is only that it is not the 'illegal/legal-immigrants' that are the problem, and that you/i/we are bigots for cursing them for what we ourselves would do if in their shoes. We are so easily convinced when the govt' tells us it's their fault that we never even consider that it's our fault. They may, in fact manifest as a symptom of the problem, but they ARE NOT the problem. It is the fact that fewer and fewer things are being produced in the usa because everyone here just wants the 'best deal'. We don't 'buy american' and that is why GM is going down. We outsource while we enjoy a std of living that is more and more beyond our means.

After a mold is made of an architectural part, it is sent over to have the part made of concrete. In the company I worked for at the time, the whole concrete department was employed by illegal immigrants. The crew was about I would say 50--60 illegal workers in the department.

We were building the whole outside facade of the Venetian hotel....

interesting story, but it doesn't make the point that immigrants are to blame for our problems because that company should have lost their license over it long before it became effected many americans. Again, the illegals/legals aren't the prob... perhaps its the biz that the prob, perhaps it's the fundamental flaw of capitalism that eventually you run out of markets/cheap-labor to exploit... but it is anything but the immigrants fault and I tried to explain that to you with an analogy where we annex mexico and eventually the wage gets back up there and we outsource... putting us right back were we started but w/o the immigrant to blame.

I just don't think you understand how big of a problem it can be Mikey. Once a group of illegal immigrants make up a big portion of a company, they have a way of holding the company hostage, and finding ways to keep American workers out of the picture. The only way they can keep that stronghold, is to work for cheap wages, and band together as a unit..

-you use this analogy to draw the conclusion that 'this is why we should keep them out'... I use it to draw the conclusion that even if you 'keep them out', your job will be outsourced.

You can't justify any of it by saying, 'well if it was that easy of a job to do, then you deserve to have the job taken from you" or " If it's that easy than you deserve to be denied the right to work" or "they're doing work Americans don't want to do".

ok, get your tape recorder out: I was wrong to say I don't care if they take unskilled labor away from americans. What I should have said is that ultimately, this is not the problem... so I am not concerned with it.

A legal American worker in the US has every right above ANY illegal worker no matter how "easy" the job may seem to be. And at this stage of the economy, I know of a huge amount of American people from the 18-25 range who are dying to find ANY job no matter if it's minimum wage or not.. I personally know of many kids in the 18-20 range who haven't been able to work their FIRST job yet. A lot of the construction jobs around here are being eaten alive by illegal workers who may have years of experience in their craft and are still willing to work for minimum wage. Construction companies in the market today would rather hire them than a legal American kid with no experience.

things are tuff, I know... but you think you are arguing with me while you are making my point.

What do you have to say to those kids Mikey? They are being denied the chance of even learning the craft of woodworking due to the abundance of illegal immigrants who have some sort of experience in an economy that is looking for cheap labor now more than ever..

again, you think keeping immigrants out will solve this problem... but it wont', so it's not of much interest to me altho, again, it makes my point.

Being a good woodworker and running a shop are two different things. What the owners and the workers themselves failed to realize was how easy I can organize an operation, and make it look easy. Not everyone has that skill.

so modest of you to draw the conclusion that the only possible reason they 'tanked' was that you left. Try to put your ego aside and at least be able to consider the possibility that your firing was only a sign of things to come.

While they did end up being descent custom woodworkers, they were never really all that organized at efficiently building $50,000 Kitchens. I was the only one who knew who was capable of doing the tasks I needed done at the time. They didn't even know themselves. I masterminded the building of the projects from beginning to end and handled the building of the most intricate aspects. I also was the one who knew who was best suited to order the products from. From the hard-ware, to the materials, parts for tools, and the wood, and who would get it there on time.

again with the modesty... I'm going to tell you a little saying that I've had to learn painfully: pride comes b4 a fall.

again, by your own admission they went out of biz... so perhaps they 'thought' they were replacing you (that's the best I can muster)... but ultimately they didn't.

But NONE of this happens without the enticing presence of exploiting the illegal immigrants by the owners.

again shreddy, (just want you to see how tht comes across) perhaps they HAD no choice but to do this in order to compete.

Mikey, it's not like I hated the people I trained or worked with. I understood that they were looking for a better life. But by no means should I ever be considered a "moron" for losing my job to illegal immigrants. In a lot of cases it's not the fault of the average American worker, but greedy unethical owners and CEOs. And occaisionally, as I mentioned before, hostage mentalities of the illegal immigrants themselves. Do you see what the very presence can create?

again, never called you a moron. get over that already. and afa greedy owners - that could be the case some of the time... but most of the time it your and my fault for buying walmart and honda while factories close left and right.

I do have a right to be angry at illegal immigrants for being here. They don't have the right to side-step the legal means for citizenship. And that goes for ANY illegal immigrant from any part of the world. We have a legal process, and it should be respected to uphold our sovereignty, security as a nation, and our economic stability. They don't have a legal right above US citizens to work, and yet they ignore every aspect of those laws without hesitation. I can either choose to be sympathetic or angry. Sometimes I'm a little of both. It's hard to look at a good hearted honest illegal immigrant in the eyes and tell them that you wish they would just go back to where they came from, knowing that they're just looking for a better life. But at the same time, I've seen the adverse effects of what it does to our own brothers and sisters, and I'm sorry if I care for their well being just a little bit more.

again, if all illegal immigration was stopped you would not have solved the problem.

I'd like to pass on to you a good saying that a legal immigrant told me once: 'go ahead and point your finger at someone - three fingers are pointing back at you'.

In 1937 the mexican immigrants were the problem, so they made marijuana illegal.

Guess that tactic didn't work...hmmm

Craig Maxim Wrote:
Not always, but very often, the thing people accuse others of the most, is the very thing they are guilty of.

I agree:

Craig Maxim Wrote:
Before I even deal with your many fallacies, let me just say for the record, that my knowledge of the Bible, it's origins, the canonization process of BOTH the Tanakh (canonized by Jews) which became the Christian's "Old Testament" and the New Testament (canonized by Christians) is vastly superior to your knowledge.

Craig Maxim Wrote:
Your "council of elders" won't be able to help you.

Craig Maxim Wrote:
No matter how much peyote they have you smoke!

Craig Maxim Wrote:
You being a student of the Bible is a joke bro.

Craig Maxim Wrote:
OMG! You are hopeless dude!

Craig Maxim Wrote:
Like Hitler's twisted view of history, YOU TOO twist history for your own AGENDA

Craig Maxim Wrote:
you are a little like a kid who has begun learning chess, and someone teaches him the "Fool's Mate" and he runs around challenging everyone with it, and prides himself that he is better than the other kids. Until he plays an experienced chess player, and reality sets in.

Craig Maxim Wrote:
I am pleased that you are pursuing a spiritual path, but if you were where you could be, you would have been told about me. I have been testified about, by psychics (including one who is used by police agencies for crimes they have no leads on) by fervent Christians who have had visions and been told things in prayer, and a Prince of Zaire, to name a few. People here think I am whacky enough as it is, but if I shared all the signs that accompanied my birth and throughout my life, the personal experiences I have had with God, angels and the deceased... they'd have me committed.

Craig Maxim Wrote:
Clearly we will NEVER be able to have a rational and informed conversation, because your narcissistic personality is such, that you invented your own religion, to bolster your wicked belief about yourself, that YOU are a god.

Craig Maxim Wrote:
Look for a thread from me soon, entitled: THE ROOT OF ALL SIN

Craig Maxim Wrote:
I am going to lay this out for you... ONE TIME

Craig Maxim Wrote:
I suggest you read it thoughtfully and prayerfully, even if your ego can't admit doing so, publicly, because it may VERY WELL SAVE YOUR SOUL!

Thanks for the admonition Mike, but how would this apply? I have studied the Bible and world religions most of my life. And I particularly take offense at people claiming to be equal to God. When, trying to usurp God's throne is the ROOT and ORIGIN of all sin. Were you ever confused and thought that I believed I was equal to God?

Phil's main point to me is that I think I am better than anyone else, and that by listing my experiences in life I am self-centered and deluded. The fact that I did not even MENTION any of these things for over a year and half, would tend to dispute his claim, would it not? Not to mention that MOST of the things I mentioned were in response to his challenges for comments I had made.

An example of which, was when he claimed something along the lines of, that I had probably never travelled outside the U.S. and probably had no experiences with other cultures. To dispute his erroneous claim, I have to list the experiences, showing that he was misinformed. Then when I do that, suddenly I am bragging. Then he goes on to the next one, never admitting he was wrong about the previous one.

What I will take responsibility for, is my heart not being centered. It's always best to approach things in a more loving way, particularly when someone is in need of God's love. I'm sure God is disappointed with me for that. I get too self-righteous in arguments sometimes, when I need more love and understanding. You can't expect to teach trigonometry to someone still struggling with basic geometry. You would think I would have learned this by now.

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Mike, I really wasn't trying to patronize you. All this time I read the V at the end of your name as a Y. It has always looked like "Mistermikey" to me. I do apologise for that. I don't know why that was the case, maybe the font used or something.

It's obvious that we see differently on the subject. But I did make it a point not to call you any names, and I wasn't trying to do that as an alternative.

I do want to say this though. As a woodworker, I'm sure I do come across as self absorbed and egotistical. But the job of a GM when the owners don't have ground floor experience in the business IS to run the place. The job IS that impactful. Lose a good GM and you can very easily lose your business. In both cases where I was a GM and the businesses folded after being let go, the owners were the investors, and hired a GM to run the operation. And in both cases they became "Al Davis" and decided that they all of the sudden knew better. And in a weird analogy, became the Oakland Raiders of what we see today (only worse, at least the Raiders are still in existence). Just because someone is an owner of a business, doesn't necessarily mean they know how to run their operation. And even some of the best woodworkers don't make good GMs.

I love that this all started becuase of my two post about revolution and dont tread on me.
Thank you for getting the message out to people Craig, your a better man than I.

DONT TREAD ON ME!

You needent worry bout my conviction, but I thank you for the kind sentiment.
Sat and had a cold one with a Misouri Synod Lutherian Pastor one day, I asked him about our drinking the beers. Old man said, boy tis not what you put in your mouth that makes you a sinner. Now get me another beer, it's hot out today.

There is no "path to rightousness".
Salvation cannot be purchased by our works or intent.
This is the single greatist pitfall for mankind. We have tried everything up to and including human sacrafice and canabalism in an attempt to buy our way into the "afterlife".

It is a free gift!

Craig - if you want to BE interesting, 1st you must SEEM interesting.

Why the hell would any of us go out & seek more info on you when we get more than we can take right here?

It's like going to someone's house who serves you a spaghetti dinner in a overflowing 5 quart ice cream bucket who then gets mad when you can't eat it all!

STFU

GET HELP

The reason I ask you questions isn't necessarilly because I want the answers, Craig. I ask to get you to look at how silly & full of yourself you seem when you a)start up threads you think are so important, yet controversial, that everone MUST read them & take heed, b) give us too much info, c) take too long in the telling, d) argue your points to the point that no one gives a damn any longer, e) start getting your ass on your shoulders when we tell you nicely that we've had quite enough, & f) then become abusive or condescending when we get to the point that we cannot stand you any longer.

There are a hell of a lot of us that you lost with this constant wringing of your hands combined with the lashing out at ppl who disagree or find you simply too ridiculous to take seriously, but what the hell else can we do with someone so divisive, who tries so hard to be compelling & informative, yet falls victim to his own ego all too often?

Too many pages, Craig. Too much confrontation, Craig. Too much repitition, Craig. Too much controversy, Craig. Too many CAPS, exclamations, & bold print, Craig!!! You obviously aren't a man who can control himself, emotionally.

GET PROFESSIONAL HELP

REALLY, Craig. You need it FAR more than you think the rest of us need yours.

Lesson #924 is complete.