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Speakers, amps.

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#58046 by JennyKy
Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:08 pm
I just purchased a PA System for practice for me metal band, and I'm having a lot of trouble with feedback.

Yamaha EMX 512SC Powered Mixer
2 Yamaha BR12M Speakers

But if I turn the vocals over 3 1/2 on the channel it produces feedback, and the FCL (Feedback channel locating) light for that channel is ALWAYS on even with just background noise, and at really low levels.

I have a EV N/D 767a Mic plugged into the first channel, with the proper cords as far as I know.

I have no idea what is wrong with the set-up. Any suggestions?

#58062 by Dr Ludwig
Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:18 pm
The mixer you're using has two 500 watt power amps built in...one for mains and one for monitors. Plenty of power...you probably don't need to have your gain up so high, especially if you're rehearsing in a small room. Do you also get feedback at lower volumes? You should also make sure the mics aren't pointing at the speakers. Have you tried using the EQ to balance out the sound?
#58109 by JennyKy
Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:44 am
I can hear the vocals but they are getting washed out with the drums, guitar, and bass. The feedback isn't bad below that 4 level (about half way to the "optimal" arrow), but I'm not even hitting the -15 level on the little sound lights with it set at that, and I know (from reading the book) that I am supposed to get it the main EQ to 0 when singing so I can then adjust the volume to the appropriate level, I'm not even close. I'm not very technologically savvy and this is all a bit new to me, but even adjusting the channel levels (low-mid-high) makes no difference, even turned way down.

I'm going to try a different set-up with the speakers try to get them in front of and facing away from me, but in the space that's going to be tough. I'm just a little frustrated since I was having the same problem with a cheap amp I was using and I can barely hear the difference in volume after spending all that money for the PA System it just seems like I must be missing something huge...

#58433 by TurboBuddha
Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:30 pm
Feedback in a small practice space can be a problem. Espesially when trying to get some good volume. What helps is to watch your speaker placement. In practice, I would use monitors or set my mains up like monitors for positioning so that the output is directed towards your head and inline with the mic. Watch your reflections. I have a drop ceiling where my kitchen meets the dining room (the practice space) and if I don't get the mic more in the kitchen, I catch reflections off the 8" drop portion (wall). Otherwise, I'm directly in front of a 3000w stack of 4 15" 2-way and and a pair of 18's. Helps is you have a parametric EQ or at least a 31 band and ring the room out. You'll have a high and low freq for the room that you can pull down to help you push some more gain. For each space, if your not sure what your doing, play around some. Move your speakers around, change mic placement and work on mic trechnique. If you play around some, you should be able to get the vocals up to a pretty fair volume. And practice at slightly lower volumes. In a small room of your house, a 100w 4-12 guitar stack will wipe out your vocals (and bass and drums) pretty quick. Sometimes, instead of turning something up, turn something down. Instead of saying the vocals aren't loud enough, see if something else is to loud. Like the guitars maybe.
#58667 by JennyKy
Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:27 am
I've tried moving the speakers and mic around, but still get more feedback than I would like. I've been thinking about buying a "feedback destroyer" like the Behringer Shark or something like that. Do those work?

#58744 by sanshouheil
Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:31 am
Did you flat line all the frequencies on your EQ?
Are you trying to bring the vocals up to the level of the music.
Or set vocals primary, then adjust instruments up slowly to meet vocal output?
You should not need more equipment to get what you have to work.
Perhaps you are asking too much from the PA.

Start everyone from zero. Set your vocal volume. Then slowly increase the instrument output. If a high frequency feedback starts back off and adjust the EQ.
If you have a guitarist cranking on his amp like he's all alone, it will never work.

#58799 by JennyKy
Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:22 pm
I feedback occurs even with background noise, so it's not the guitarists' fault, actually I sometimes have a hard time hearing them over the drummer. It's just such a small oddly spaced room that no matter where I put the speakers and mic, I am getting insane feedback. I admit I suck at setting EQs but I have tried t adjust them to reduce the feedback, it hasn't made much difference.

#59004 by sanshouheil
Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:39 am
Perhaps the PA is FUBAR.

Try it in a different location, perhaps outdoors.
#60708 by Floyd of Jericho March
Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:20 pm
You have a super sensitive EV try another practice mic, the EV was designed for Stage, it is polar and has a sound source capable of two feet so it can pick up vocals very clearly that is its design. Unless you are in a sound booth,or another part of the house it will pickup every thing. Hope this helps.

#60711 by sanshouheil
Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:33 pm
Gee, Why didnt I think of that?

Boy I'm glad he belongs to our band !! 8)
#60720 by JennyKy
Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:52 pm
Thanks! I actually did pull out the SM58 and use that last week. I also moved the guitarists amp to the other side of the room. Those two things resulted in a lot less feedback. I appreciate all the help.
#61073 by Joe19709
Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:48 am
YouTube has some outstanding instructional videos on PA set-up, control, and functions. I strongly recommend that you check them out. Just search on "PA system". They helped me when I started doing sound for our band.

expertvillage.com is another good site for information and guidance.

Good Luck!

#78478 by THE WARLOCK
Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:50 am
8) Take this advise and you will get results,with a powerfull p.a. you are going to have to do the following,1set the p.a. and speekers in the band area, 2 with a hot mike you will need to do your vocals in another room. This sounds lame but it works very well. the problem is your picking up feedback from your mike and speekers and all instruments. special mikes are for special apps. depending on how you are set up will depend on "if" you will be able to mike out yous instruments. preferrably its better if you do because you can avoid the HISS and slave your amps as monitors. the fix is that easy Steele the warlock

#116982 by jyarddog
Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:32 pm
Keep main speakers turned away from mics. If you are running a monitor system you must eq it. EQ-ing you monitors is perhaps more important since the monitor cabinets are so close to the mics.

Notice a sort of echo-ey resonant sound on the low end? This is a low end feed back. Very annoying. This is around 150 htrz or so. This is called a standing wave or eigentone (sorry for the spelling). This is the most inefficient area of speakers except for RTR speakers, but then who has the mony for RTR"s!? Drop your EQ on the monitor side around this range (150 give or take) about -4 to -6 decidels.

So-called cardioid mics are not as good as claimed, unless you get one that's about $300-$500 range. This info is straight from the man who invented the cardioid mic. I used an omni-directional mic in my last band. I could turn that puppy up at least 1/3 louder than the other guys' mics before feeding back.

So- EQ for the main side of your PA- color the sound to your taste and the room qualities. A second EQ- monitor side- to control feedback. Don't worry too much about tone quality. All you need is to hear yourself clearly. Usually you will notice there is no reverb on teh monitor side. Reverb is basically- controlled feedback. :)

I did sound for a band once this way. All we had at the time was a funky 200 watt PA, but with my setup it was louder and clearer than the previoius band which had Crown amps!!!! Why? EQ control and my ears. Ears are your best pieces of equipment! Wouldn't you all agree?!

Sorry for any typos. I can play bass well, but my typing sucks! :) Bob

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