General Music Chat

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Great forum.

Just wondered if anyone had the time to listen and give me some feedback. I last posted samples close to a year ago and have been working hard to improve, after getting some good comments the last time. Please be as specific as possible if you hear any pitchy parts or other issues. (the elapsed time on the track would be great) What do I need to work on most? Also if you have time to listen to all 4, which is the best/worst/

Please understand I have no illusions about ever 'making it', in any sense of the word. I just want to get good enough to front a local cover band.

These are obviously home-made, but any advice on effects, or recording tips would be great too. Yes the vocals are definitely too loud in the mix, but I thought that would help with evaluating them, and also the backing tracks are from vocal suppression software so the lead vocals still are in there a little (hence I didn't want the backing track too loud).

http://www.bandmix.com/reddy2rock/

THANKS in advance

Okay - I'm gonna be brutally honest with you, cuz that's what I do.

I don't think you're a singer. I only had to listen to the 1st 15 seconds of the 1st tune to realize this.

If you want to sing, you're going to have to get some professional help, someone who will teach you how to breathe, how to pitch & hear the pitch, & you'll also need some help in the tone area. You may get to be a singer one day, but it will require an immense amount of practice, concentration, & pro guidance to achieve the position of "singer." Find a good vocal instructor if you're at all serious. You cannot do this by yourself.

My two cents.

Unfortunately my brutal honesty won't be much better...

I agree w/ Philby, and can even relate.

I personally can sing in pitch, but when I sing, I pretty much sound a lot like you Reddy, I just don't have the voice for it, I blame my genetics - Larynx, sinuses, etc.. Just don't have the physical equipment to do the job. I see it as kind of like racing in the daytona 500 with a stock ford pinto. Sure, you can do it, but you can't compete with the rest of the pack. It's not fair, but life was never about fairness.

Sorry to be so brutal, but, in my case, I heard it in the first 15 seconds of recording myself. You gotta listen to your tracks, and ask yourself-

1. Can I hear what's wrong with my vocals?
2. Can I, and am I, willing to take extraordinary measures (practice, coaching, re-learning everything from the ground up for several hours a day, every day, for at least a year or two) to maybe succeed, with no guarantees?

Only you can answer that.

My suggestion would be that if you truly love music and want to perform, then take up instrumentation, try a guitar, bass, drums, flute, saxophone, violin... find something that you feel like you have a natural inclination to.

Here is my evaluation. This is coming from a singer. I would like to hear what you sound like as a back up vocal. I think you would have a better chance and waste less time going in that direction. The truth is a person is born with a good/great voice. A person can teach you some things to strengthen you muscles to help you with pitch but the bottom line is that you are still going to have the same voice. This is not a bad thing I just think your place is harmony. I really think with some proper teaching you could do that. Let me just tell you it is hard to find good background vox. Anyways great effort. Just remember this as well. Doing someone else's song is an injustice for someone to evaluate. We are trained to critique based on what the original sounds like. I promise the originals don't sound like they do on the CD either. Keep up the practice man. YOur drive will take you where you want to go.

1. Can I hear what's wrong with my vocals?

Reddy2Rock,

I was going to pose this same question last night, and ask if you would critique your own songs before asking for input. I got side tracked, so I'll just add my 2 cents here.

There are I think, three vocal categories of people:
1. People who can hear pitch, and can sing it.
2. People who can hear pitch but can't sing it (or think they can while they're singing it, but on play-back, hear that they aren't in pitch).
3. People who can't hear pitch - slightly flat or sharp doesn't raise the hair on the back of their neck like it should.

There's naturally a lot of gray area between the categories, but I think generally speaking those categories are discernable. If you can discern them by listening to others, then you are at minimum a 2.

If you fall roughly into category 2 (you can play back your song and identify where you fall flat or sharp), then there is hope for your being able to correct it, as Kramer points out, with a little or a lot of professional help and practice.

Unfortunately, if you fall into category 3, then there really is no way to correct something you can't hear.

The reason vocalists need a monitor while singing on stage, (or put an ear-plug in one ear), is so they can hear their voice while singing and correct their pitch as they sing, to stay in pitch. It's a constant battle to stay in pitch. Based on what I heard, at minimum you're a 2, but likely your a 3 given how far out of pitch your voice tended to drift, and how often it drifted.

If music is your passion, don't give up on music simply because you don't have a natural ear / voice. If I fell into the 2nd or 3rd category as a vocalist, personally, I would give percussion, or even an instrument a try.

Hmm, come to think of it, actually I did. I never did like my singing voice when playing it back.

Regards,
ST.

Thanks for being honest guys - I obviously now have a much better idea where I fit in on the spectrum

I was hoping that I'd progressed to the point where I could at least front a local bar band, but it doesn't sound like it from these comments

One question -- did anyone listen past the first 15 seconds of the first song? Because although I do have trouble hearing pitch evidently, I did wonder about the beginning of that first song (and have since taken the song off)

Are there pitch problems throughout all the songs, in other words?

Thanks again

Thanks for being honest guys - I obviously now have a much better idea where I fit in on the spectrum

I was hoping that I'd progressed to the point where I could at least front a local bar band, but it doesn't sound like it from these comments

One question -- did anyone listen past the first 15 seconds of the first song? Because although I do have trouble hearing pitch evidently, I did wonder about the beginning of that first song (and have since taken the song off)

Are there pitch problems throughout all the songs, in other words?

Thanks again

I listened to all of the first song, and that is primarily what I based my post on. I think that was the problem-child song.

You sang Until the End decently well actually - I mean I think you could sing that on stage and come off decently well, but if you listen carefully, for instance, at 2:35 - 2:40, you started that note well, but flattened out during your sustain. So based on that song alone, I would put you as a 2 on the scale I mentioned above. I also think you chose a song that is too high for your natural range. You have a naturally lower vocal range, so I would encourage you to pick songs that don't require you switch unnaturally to falsetto to retain the pitch.

All The Same is closer to your natural vocal range, but it seems like you are beginning each note a little off key then correcting to the pitch which makes the notes seem 'unsure".

If I were to give you a practice routine to improve your voice, it would be singing scales, staccato style. Doe a dear, a female dear" kind of exercise where you attempt to start the note on key instead of hitting the note and rising or lowering to get it, then completely the stop the note before going onto the next note so you don't have any reference other than what you remeber the previous note being.

My parents were heavily into theater, doing several musicals such as Kiss Me Kate, and one thing that sticks in my memory is how often my mother would sing scales like that, using different mouthings to shape her voice. She did that religiously before every performance, and to my shagrin, at home But her goal was to be sure of every note when she hit it.

Riot kind of strikes me as having the same note-correction tendencies.

So, I think you could improve but I don't think it's a "natural" talent for you. You'll need to work at it. Get a vocal instructor to give you exercises and warm-up routines that require you to start each note on key and I think you can improve even more. Music genre will dictate how methodical your singing needs to be, but your end-goal should be to hit notes well and strong, like you meant to hit that note in the first place.

Regards,
ST.

When your voice breaks up like it did in "Until The End," you're doing it damage, & you will get nodules on your vocal cords if you do this for too long. Then you won't be singing at all.

Get to a pro teacher. Learn the warm-up exercizes & do them religiously. Learn how to apply your natural vocal registers, & the best keys to sing in for your range. You can expand your range, but only with lots of practice & proper guidance. To do otherwise is unwise, for health reasons, if for no other.

All 3 remaining tunes had lots of pitchy spots in them, but they were each better than the 1st one I heard. You're still way off from being what I'd call a singer, but you may have the drive to do it. Only you know about that.

Practice, with proper guidance, is what you need, imo.

Good luck.

Reddy to rock,

If I was in the market for a lead singer who doesn't play an instrument, I too would have reservations, on the basis of your recordings.

However.....

I believe that you may have the potential to get yourself in front of a band none the less.

First of all, it appears that you have the desire, and that accounts for a lot.

Second, As pointed out before, your singing out of you range. That 's because you are being accompanied by pre-recorded music. If you were jamming with me, I'd transpose the song into a key that suits your voice.

If your serious about singing in a band, consider investing in a decent little P.A. system (assuming you don't have one), and find players who are willing to work with you.
You (and many of us on this forum) may well be surprised at what you might accomplish if you set realistic goals, find the right people, and put enough energy into it.

You sure 'nuf ain't no Pavarotti, But I see no reason why you couldn't develop your voice to a point to front a decent band.(don't forget, to be an effective front man, you have to lean to be an entertainer as well, so GET TO WORK!

Howlin'

*snip* don't forget, to be an effective front man, you have to lean to be an entertainer as well, so GET TO WORK!

You mean jumpy David Lee Roth lean?

HowlinJ (as usual) said a lot of good things. Certain songs and certain keys do not fit certain vocalists. Sometimes it's necessary to change the way a song is played and/or change the key of the song. When I first started singing in a band (1980) I was AWFUL. I cringed when I first listened to the recordings we made. It really wasn't until the last five years I started to actually like my own voice. It takes YEARS to develop your vocal ability. You could go to a pro vocal instructor but the real best way to sing is to SING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. If you find yourself straining CHANGE THE SONG, CHANGE THE KEY, OR DUMP THE SONG. Don't get frustrated, just KEEP SINGING and find out what might WORK for you. There's very few instant prodigies in this business, especially vocalists. Some people might be good right from the beginning, but very few are great from the beginning. Don't give up, keep experimenting until you find what suits YOU best, and don't be afraid to change a cover tune to suit you. We do material by singers who I know I NEVER will sound like, so I just sing them all MY way. Good luck...

I'll add a little something in here. I'm sure the experienced singers will agree.

When you're having a hard time hitting those high notes, drop down & sing a harmony note instead. Your audience won't know, & you'll sound much better than you will by straining yourself.

Here buddy, I'll start off positive:

For a live sound, your better then 50% of live bands I've seen.
You try to present yourself which is great.

Here's the negatvie:

For record quality.... hmm.... well I think you've about heard it from the others.

This is the adivce I've gotten over the years:

High pitch doesnt mean loud... oh no. In fact if you can be high pitch without raising your voice or going into falsetto (spelling) your on the right track.

Holding notes is about the timing, not the word.

Try sitting down with an instrument without distortion and match the pitch.
If you or tonedeaf here is how to do it:

Grab a guitar with a tuner and put it in tone, keep strumming the 5th and first just like you would for unmachined tuning and lower the high gauged string to be flat. Here for tone deaf ppl, you should be able to hear vibrations as when the notes do not match wavelengths anymore. the farther apart the wave peaks are the closer in tone you are. To picture this: its like a heart scanner, each peak should be a good time apart, but if there is a problem the machine beeps often.

Sing with the bottom string after retuning until you can no longer "feel" these vibrations from the amp crossing with your voice. then down tune again. This is a strong exercise in intonation. And can "teach" a tonedeaf person what tone "feels" like.

(kicks you in the ass)

Yeah, your voice is a little out..

You got a good voice for some hard rock/metal back up shout.
Now I'm pretty sure you don't wanna do back-up vocals. So, keep practising and always record yourself and listen to how the originals sound. Sooner than later, when comparing back to back, you'll hear that your voice sounds odd at parts.
Keep at it. I think your voice is good enough that you CAN get better.

"Riot:" Is that the Three Days Grace song?