This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

Chat about the latest toys and innovations.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

#230135 by Starfish Scott
Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:46 pm
Ok, so I was running my Fender combo amp in conjunction with my keyboard. It's ok by me. But I just had a situation where I had to listen to complaints that "I wasn't loud enough".

(I thought I was loud enough and I heard me just fine. lol)

Anyway, so this one guy that is part of the thingie wants to sell me 2 amps. They are both Yamaha 'Hundred' 412's. (100 watt combo amps with 4-12" speakers.)

He thinks that I should run them both, one on my left channel and one on my right channel. He making it pretty cheap for me, since I am but a poor peasant and they want more volume out of the keyboard noise(s). lol

To me that seems like a reasonable setup, I guess. I figure that they'll be clean all day long and I'll be running a stereo setup after that.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

I just do not want to run the keys through the PA. Their PA is "rickety" and I am just not inclined to think that is going to be good for that PA, probably enough load on that already. I figure to leave well enough alone on that aspect.

Comments? Questions? Advice?
Last edited by Starfish Scott on Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

#230143 by Cajundaddy
Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:46 pm
Lots of keys players choose lots of different stuff. The setup we like the best is for the keys player to have a small amp like a Roland Cube 60 or similar that he controls and points at his head for monitoring and run a line out to the PA for stereo house sound and to put some keys in the other players monitors so they can hear you. This gives you total control over the sound without raising the stage volume too much.

If you still have that Yamaha EMX PA you could use that head with one or two PA speaker cabs as well. Stereo sound on both sides of the stage thru your own system that you control. This will make the stage volume louder and it's more gear to drag around but will certainly work and give good coverage.

#230149 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:32 am
No-no, not using my equipment on this bunch. (they are too rough with their stuff)

They are living dangerously, with an over-taxed PA but it sounds "eh" so far.
(to each their own)

I am only doing what I am supposed to do, play some keys and I don't need that to be part of the PA considering that it's suspect to begin with and a tad overloaded.

But it's not mine and some people you can't actually tell anything to, so instead of making it worse, I am just doing what I am asked to do and intentionally staying well back from their PA which may make a "poopie" at any time.

By not using it, I can't be blamed when the sucker shits the proverbial bed, either.

Now if their PA was new and powerful, I might consider running my signal through it but that's not the case. lol

I really tend to think that this will be loud enough and keep me separated.
("You gotta keep em separated" -Offspring)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2gTFBhQ7Ko

lol Tie your own rope..

#230182 by GuitarMikeB
Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:40 pm
Problem with using a guitar amp for keys: low end and high end. Of course a lot depends on what type of keys you're playing, the type of music, etc.
Most guitar amps cut off any frequencies higher than 12KHz, and the low end gets muddy or non-existant below about 160Hz. that's why keyboard amps (like the Roland Cube) give a better sound - and sound louder.
Although they may be giving you a 'deal' on the Yammie set up - what are you going to do with them in the long run? Note that these are probably 20-25 years old already and may crap out as soon as their PA system does, and solid state amps from that time were not very good osunding for guitar. :roll: How much $ do they want?

#230191 by Cajundaddy
Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:47 pm
Agreed that a guitar amp will be less than ideal.

For about $300 you could find a used JBL Eon or Mackie SRM450 powered speaker that would sound fantastic for keys and be good for 125db. Plenty to deafen the rest of the band. They are also a lot easier to drag around weighing less than 50 lbs.

#230209 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:58 pm
Ok, maybe I forgot a few details.

1) All speakers have been replaced with full range speakers.. (wooo yeaa)

2) The type of crap I am playing now is short on piano-like stuff and long on weird sound effect type stuff. (I am having a ball.)

3) They are so cheap, I don't even want to say. lol (another positive)
I could burn them both up and be over it in a few days. LOL
(and maybe I will)

4) I was screwing around with them and they are pumping good cleans, but I wouldn't bother with that amp if I was running a guitar signal. The reverb and dirty channel is "mud".

The amp(s) actually remind me of a Roland Jazz Chorus type noise.

I just can't afford the Roland or 2 of them to be concise.

And as far as using a guitar amp in general? My Fender Bassman Ten is LOUD when running it through that combo. I like that amp and don't want to blast it, so these 2 Yamaha combos will be just enough "chum" to get something on the hook worth reeling in. lol

Deafen the band? Ah I like finesse and musical tact. I want to be part of 1 sound, not a group of dimwits blasting each other with little to no regard for what others play. (just say no to noise)

When I play bass it's a similar thing. I always say "I am a fill bassist", as in I hear what's going on and I am looking to reinforce/support what already is, I am not looking to generate anything that doesn't sound like it's not part of the original.

Yeah people bitch that I don't play loud enough, but I always get people that turn "up" my amp/system instead of turning it "down".

I think the biggest insult in the world is to have someone want to turn your amp down. (start lower and let them strain to hear you, then let them set the volume higher until it's easily discernible if that's what they want.)

I am just a player, not an engineer, although I might play one on TV. lol

#230238 by Cajundaddy
Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:12 am
Sounds like you found the perfect rig for your keys at a practically free price. Go for it Scotty!

#230256 by Starfish Scott
Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:39 pm
I hate to say it, but the cheaper it is, the more I like it.
(If it caught on fire, I'd be trying to get some video before it kicked out completely. lol)

Most any junk has a sweet spot, the trick is to know what it is.

And this one was a no brainer, the guy I am getting it from was playing keys through these 2 before me, replaced the speakers and was using a garbage set of keys and it still was fairly interesting sounding.

He's just making it possible for me to be "too loud in stereo".

And I'll do what I always do, start at low volume and play like a crazy man drunk with power and let them turn it up to the point that they feel it's loud enough. (and I'll be wearing my earplugs as usual) lol

And when they go boom, cause I usually do destroy something at some point, I'll just salvage the speakers/cab/whatever and throw the rest away.

(bring the thunder) lol

#230260 by Planetguy
Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:46 am
ok, TWO combo amps w 4x12's in each?

i have only one question....who's hauling THAT rig around?????

i'd go w J7's suggestion of trying to find a used powered JBL EON 15 or something similar from Mackie, Peavey, or Carvin.

#230262 by Starfish Scott
Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:19 am
:) I drag my own stuff around almost exclusively. (If you drop my junk, you better run. So I move my own stuff 1st and then help anyone else that wants help moving whatever. Drummers always want help moving their 210 piece set du jour. lol)

I was dragging a Marshall head and 2 Peavey 412S 's there for a bit.

Actually, I found that Marshall 4104 to be the worst thing I ever carried as it was fing heavy only on one side. (unbalanced like a MFer)

It's all fun and games until you have to rotate that 4104 (2x12) to get it in a doorway. That's when your shoulder starts making noises. lol

The only other thing that bugged me was carrying the Yamaha S215V's.
That's a "no joke" weight, 2 people minimum unless you wanna feel the pump as you actually start to play.

Everything else isn't a biggie.

#230286 by Planetguy
Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:36 pm
can't relate....i'm paring (weightwise) all my equipment DOWN!

so, when are you gonna post some recordings of this new deal?

#230302 by Starfish Scott
Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:43 pm
lol I don't know if that's wise.

I'm playing a bit on the haphazard side, to be honest and I don't like "slop".
(I wish I started playing keys 20 years ago.)

I know it doesn't sound as pretty and musically coordinated as your jazz stuff, Mark.

Some of it is quite heavy. (yikes) And some of it is very soft and yet dynamic. They keep saying that they want to be half improvisational and half Floyd-esque. (I just ignore the talk. They don't know what they want.)
All i know is to play, I can't emulate anyone with any accuracy. I just think it's boring, so I just play and am unconcerned with particulars. "It is what it is".

I like jamming with them, but I wonder what they would do should I show a recording device. (I may have to go "secret recording") lol

Otherwise we played a little in New Brunswick the other night for a private house and they liked it. (the audience and the weenies I was playing with.) (Never played after hours in a locked club before. It was different and a little scary.)

To be honest, I thought I played like sh*t. We played a recording of the couple few tunes we did afterwards back at the house and I cringed. I could hear every single mistake I made and yet they complimented me at the conclusion. (color me cornfused) They want me to consent to add my vocals into the mix, but I am not really convinced it's a good idea as the singer du jour is a very jealous type of unstable dude and I don't wanna make any waves. I just am liking to play with them on the outside a little. (The others sound so tight, I am kind of in awe.)

(I told them if they set up a mic, I'll give it a shot but I won't use my ES-58-S, I frigging love that mic.)

At this point, I think my keys are playing themselves.
(I wonder if someone died on my K2600, that suits me fine though.)
("Go-go ghostly keys player", possess me and make sure you play it pretty..lol)

It's either that or that keyboard makes me sound like I know what I am doing when in reality I am merely a quick study with a little knowledge of theory and a decent ear. (It definitely helps to know a little chord construction from playing guitar as well.)

I am still waiting for someone to come up to me after one of these and say "You know that keyboard makes you sound better than you really are".

And that's probably more truth than anything else...but you know how that goes.

"When you score hard off the boards, the why's and the how's of it seem to go right out the window". The only relevant thing is if they liked it or not.

And that keyboard is MUCHO weird (I love it). If you want sounds that are not unlike something trying to call in the mother ship, try out a Kurzweil. You may fall in love too. LOL

And after I played a little bit, I was approached by another group of people trying to steal a keys player. I didn't have the heart to tell them what an amateur I am now that I have essentially started to learn it all over again.

But I did get a good chuckle..and i told my cohorts after and watched them get mad. (THAT made it all worthwhile.) :) :0

#230365 by Starfish Scott
Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:47 pm
Oh man, i knew it as too good to be true.

I played a little bit with them last night and all hell is breaking loose.

The singer is getting all crazy, but that's not the worst of it.

The guy that was going to sell me the 2 Yamaha 'hundred' 412 combo amps lost his mind and decided he wants more money for the combos.
(I was supposed to pick them up/pay for them today.)

He came up to me after the short rehearsal and told me "wow you really sounded good" to which I replied "thanks".

Then he paused for a sec and I knew the "rub" was coming.
He then goes "I've decided that I really need more money for these 2 amps".

I looked down for a sec and said, "you know this sh*t doesn't play itself, you know".

He then says "but you sound so good and I know that those amps are doing a wonderful job, you shouldn't mind paying me some more money" and then gives me this kid brother tap/punch in the shoulder.

I said, "you made a deal". "Do you want me to show you how good I can make it sound with 2 cheap amps"? "I have 2 Squire 15's in the truck and I will decimate you with them if you need an education".

He laughed and tossed his head back, tossing his hair like a girl and I knew I was in for some trouble.

So we made a bet. I bet him 100$ that I could make those 2 squire 15's sound every bit as good as the 412 combos, just not as loud.

He shook on it.

I went outside and brought in these 2 fuct Fender Squire 15 watt amps I had spare in case of emergency.

So I hooked one up to the left and one to the right, unbalanced analog inputs.

And then I was mad, so I pulled out all the stops and stuck this patch on called #731 Mono Triple Lead on channel 6 and started to rip.

When I was done, they were just staring at me with their mouths open.
When someone finally said something, they said it sounded like some crazy type guitar soloist coming from a keyboard. (I played guitar first, keys are just my new hobby but "my powers are growing" but that's how my ear works atm.).

I nodded and said, "yep the sh*t doesn't play itself regardless of what you might think, either".

The guy with the amps was beet red, left a 100$ bill on my keyboard and walked out, slamming the door as he left.

I yelled after him, "what about the amps, you going to sell them to me or"? But he was out the door and gone before I could even "power down".

Right after that, rehearsal over, we locked up and left.

On the way out, my one buddy looks at me goes, "good going, he'll be pissed for a while now".

I just looked at him in disbelief and said, "oh now this is my fault"?

So I get an email this am that rehearsals are suspended for a week, because "x" needs a break due to stress. It was also suggested that I should apologize to him.

I about choked on that one. Apology? What because "I played him into next week"?

"Take your solid-state cheap sh*t home and stfu, you whiny little bitch".

I have to laugh, does that mean if I lost the bet, I would be able to
whine about it and run out like a little girl?

FML I love the music, but the people are screwy.

And if I am to pay real $ for 2 combo amps, let them be tube amps, not solid state crap. (up your bugger, your little chav !!!!) lol

#230384 by Starfish Scott
Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:56 pm
Uhh, I went by the rehearsal room today because I left some glasses behind. (and I have a problem finding glasses that fit my FAT, irregular head). lol

(Just this year I need glasses to read music/books/whatever, a real moderate reading glass in +1.75.)

So I got 3 pair for $8 the other night and was stoked, but I left them in a bag on the bench before I left.

So I manage to get someone to let me in and OMG, the place looks like a hurricane hit it. The drums were knocked over and papers everywhere.
It was just general disarray.

I go over to the bench and I see my plastic bag that my glasses were in, on the floor looking oddly flatter. (squint)

I pick up the bag and all my glasses (3 pair) broken like so much crushed ice and a little twisted metal.

I couldn't believe it. I asked Denny to take me over to Al's place and he absolutely refused. He gave me the "it's only 8$, I'll give you the 8$, just go buy 3 more pair".

I told him it's the idea of the thing. What would have happened if I left my synth there and it got smashed? And how about your drums and cymbals?

He said Al has had tantrums like this before and not to take it too seriously. I was stupefied.

Denny dropped me off and I told him, "have Al call me or don't bother me again". "Furthermore if I see Al and he doesn't apologize, he's going to get the beating he deserves for breaking my sh*t".

I mean, how the f**k old are we now? Who does this sh*t?
And smash my glasses???!?!?!??!??!??!!!?? Such bravado when I am not within eyesight. lol

Sounds like someone wants to fight and I am easy to find AND available.

I just can't believe the poor attitude on some of these "adults".

I can't even believe that he would be that immature/stupid/angry over something so nothing.

Hell I was going to even give him his 100$ back because I don't want to have to deal with the whining. (He's loaded and gainfully employed and meanwhile I am busy with my 3 p/t jobs and he's upset?)

I need 2-3 robots/androids/cavemen/whatever. I even consider some clones, why not? It can't be worse than this, can it?

And for the record, "I am supposed to be the one with the bad attitude" but I never pitched a fit like this, let alone destroy someone else's property. This is just not done.

#230415 by GuitarMikeB
Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:08 pm
Looks like you found out at the right time, before you put lots more of your valuble time into the effort.
For $8, consider it a lesson cheaply learned.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests