United States

This World That We Live In Requires Money For everything that you do.
I am also in the Luxury Automoblie Business.

Some Points that I would like to make in this Post will not matter to most of those who wrote negative comments about my previous Posts - but to have an Education into how this world that we live in works is so important. [Money]

You can play what you want and dress like you want and maybe some rich Corrupt Talent Agent who only cares about money like I have been trying to make everyone understand will put the money up to back your Musical Creations and you will be a Hit for awhile. Now if don't manage what ever money you make correctly, and if you don't stop taking all kinds of drugs and become an educated business person or surround yourself with people who know how to invest your money for you - You will still wind up broke, and forgotten. [Don't look at me: Carl Anthony] I'm not important enough to be even considered as an example of True Success in this world - I'm still striving to get there - Look At Donald Trump and Gene Simons - Donald always has a nice Suit on - He travels all over the World - he lives in the best of places and eats the best Foods. He has declared Bankruptcy 3 Times. Yet he still gets Big Bankers to back him because he is willing to Play the Game of Life in winning circles. If he walked into a bank with Blue Jeans on and said hey man give a loan I want to do my own thing. They would throw him out. Donald makes the bankers look inferior. This world resolves around money, not honor. The Governments of the world are Puppets for the Big Bankers. Gene Simons wears a costume on stage and makes millions but in real life he's another Donald Trump wearing a suit and a Player in High Finance Deals. Gene know's what happening. I play the Oldies because I like the Oldies and the Standards just like Michel Buble does.
You can't make big money playing the Oldies. You can make good money playing Everything from the 40's to todays music working for a Corporate Booking Agency - Playing Private Events - I never put down a musicians bag in my post - I said whatever venue you want to play in make sure if you are the Leader of the group that you have an outlet that will pay to hear your band once you have the band ready to go. I'll say it again - If most of the Clubs in your Area that pay good money to bands want you to play the Top 40 Tunes with some R&B Oldies and your group plays Heavy Metal - Then you are not going to make any money unless you make a Hit song that some Big Money Agent will back and promote you - But the Good Cover Bands in your area will be making a living playing A rooms because they are willing to play music that will make them money immediately. That's the point - You need a Lot of money to Live anymore.
As a matter of fact it's no joke. How many 21 yr old people even with college today can go out and get a $60,000 Gross a yr job? You need at least $60,000 a yr. Grose to get an Apt. in a decent neighborhood, a nice car, Insurance, Cable, Food, Nice Clothes and Entertainment and thats if you live by yourself. If you have a Family you need more money than that. A 60 a yr job will only NET you take home money in the 40's because of a high income tax bracket that you will be in.

Now for those of you who disagree - Your decent neighborhood is not in the North East Section of the United States and your decent car in not what I Drive - [Cadillac] - and by the way if you read my posts I play the Keyboard and the Fender Bass - I read music and I'm a FrontMan Lead Singer and I produce Midi Backing Tracks to back me up - I have talent - and I have traveled the East Coast playing in Cover Bands in my younger days. I choose to play the Oldies Now. I left the Music Business in my Thirties and Started a Cadillac Dealership with the help of my family - and I just started Entertaining Again about 5yrs ago on a partime basis - I would like to work every week end now -

Music unless you make it big can never give you the Living that a Business could give you. I'm doing alright but I'm not a Donld Trump or a Gene Simons. Those Guys and guys like them are the Real Deal -

Hey man you should all do your own thing - I'm just giving you my opinons. If your happy and your making enough money to meet your needs and desires then you are achieving what I am trying to get accross in my posts. If your not maybe you should read, listen, and learn.

For those of you who are not making good money and say you don't care becasue you are an Artist I have this to say. As far as being an Artist is concerned - I don't write songs - but I can play to prime instruments well and I can sing a variety of music Styles Very Well. And I am a local successful bunsiness man. I own my home, cars, and have a nest egg. [To Own Means You have the Title of Ownership] otherwise the Bank owns your Home or Cars not you. If that's not being an Artist I'm not interested in being one. But I could go to any fine Resturant and order what I want and have the CASH to pay the bill and the Waiters all know me by name when I walk into any Fine Local Eatery - [Good Tips] Once Again - You Need alot of MONEY in this World so why don't you try to use your God Given Talents as a musician to help to suppliment your income to make some money.

If you disagree fine - Go on about your business - Most Musicians or so called Artists are known to be bad business men. Hot Dogs are still cheap - and most Fast Food Places have a .99cent menue - You're Good to Go.


Your Friend, Carl

I'm not sure what your point is or if you even have one. Most people realize they will not get rich playing music, and even making a living from music is difficult. Better advice is to get an education and get a job doing something that you don't hate; this will allow you to pursue whatever musical path you choose. But you DO NOT have to play crappy covers in order to play music.

This guy has a SERIOUS problem. He values EVERYTHING by $ signs, period. He drives a "decent" Cadillac, my Ford Focus must be "indecent." The "true successes" in the world, Donald Trump and Gene Simmons, wear the best clothing. Since I refuse to wear a suit I must be, by definition, a miserable failure. I also happen to like Quick Trip hot dogs, I must be the lowest of the low. In order for me to advance in the world of music I have to employ a "rich corrupt talent agent." Forget about the FACT that thousands of bands and individuals have promoted THEMSELVES successfully as indie recording artists.
Maybe YOU should read, listen and learn...

1). In case you hadn't noticed we are in a terrible recession. I would define what we are in as a depression. I have been self-employyed for 20 years and the last three have been by far the worst.

2) "Good cover bands making a living playing A rooms..." "A" rooms are disappearing, fast. Good cover bands are being replaced by DJ's, karaoke, and good cover bands who are wllling to play for peanuts.

3). There are some of us who just want to make a reasonable wage. As long as our expenses are covered we are more than happy playing tunes WE want to play, covers or originals.

4). I believe you are living in the past. You've been largely out of the music scene for many years. The "rules" that you are talking about largely don't apply any more. Many factors, mainly economic, are mitigating factors in making a living.

5). You need to quit viewing EVERYTHING with $ signs attached. There still IS honor in the world IF your eyes are open to see it.

Watch it Bob, I play for money?

If we dont get what we want money wise, we stay home.

LOL

I could sell drugs but jail sounds scary.

I also play for money, at least a reasonable wage. The band I'm in wil gladly perform a 45 minute set for $100. Finding places that pay $400 is getting tough. I used to look for gigs in the late 80's and early 90's and could find one ready to have us play NEXT Saturday, now it's a Saturday six months from now if we're lucky. I talked to one venue owner who has 350 demo/ promotion packages he hasn't even looked through. Many of those acts will undercut our pay, some of those acts are quite capable. Around here the smoking ban has cut attendance 30 to 40%. When I first started clubbing in New Jersey in the late 70's the places were PACKED wall to wall. Drinking age was 18 and smoking allowed, there were bunches of places to gig. The reality is that the live gigging scene sucks, the "A" gigs are practically non-existant.

I could be wrong here... but if I stroll into Harlem NY, and offer my musical -Folk song services to the Apollo, for example... what are the odds, that I walk outta there with my underwear wrapped around my head...(In under 120 seconds from the time I make the solicitation to the time I get to the nearest exit from the building) ?

I think Mr Carl's' point has something to do about common business sense... which might include :
A) knowing your venues,
B) shooting for the A-listers,
C) provide the level of entertainment that they would buy. It's like selling those dang cars... He's catering to the "top dollar" club..

Nothing wrong with that, if that's what floats your boat...

Mr Bob might be less discriminating and he might decide to offer his talents to the "Any dollar" club...


Either way, if one is well informed, deliberate and aware of the choices...Nothing wrong with that


I personally would lean toward the "Any Dollar" club...and I'll tell you why:

1) You make more money off of ten camel-toed drunken bitches, 52 times a year, then you would off of 3 classy drunken bitches 12 times a year.

2) You can increase your bonus opps with the "Any Dollar" club, because they are more likely to allow you to add "Sonia the Boa and her Wonder Dog" into the act, whereas the "Top-Dollar" club would would be more stifling

3) I personally like pizza over caviar... But most importantly, I can smoke Cuban cigars in a honky-tonk, as easily as I could at a mansion parlor room.

In all my innocent , unfettered experience as an aspiring musician... I can say with full authority, that Donald Trump should never get up on a stage with that hair ... and Gene Simmons should stop licking the ears of the female bank tellers.

Carl when I have to sit and listen to a band that operates like this, I just laugh a little from the cheap seats and mock the sh*t out of them..

Most Musicians or so called Artists are known to be bad business men. Hot Dogs are still cheap - and most Fast Food Places have a .99cent menue - You're Good to Go.


Your Friend, Carl

Carl,

I am an artist. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you, but I sing all original music that I've written and have done so full-time most of my life, going back to 1978 when I was a teenager. Since 2004, I would bet that I make more than you do and have a LOT more fun doing it, though you have correctly pointed out that most musicians are bad business men.

So what?

Your posts say, "Nah, nah, boo, boo...I make more money than you losers". That isn't very considerate of others who may not have the same opportunities or desires that you do.

Your point about considering financial sustainability is a valid one, but it's covered up in arrogance of thinking there is only one way to do that. Like I said earlier, I once tried your approach for about 6 months before I lost all self-respect. I don't judge people who do that but tone down the smugness and lets talk turkey.

The secret to making money in music is no secret; it's a matter of doing the things that someone who makes money does. You are lucky to live in an area where there is an opportunity to be paid well singing the songs you like to sing. That fact alone gives you a leg-up on 85% of people here. For many on these boards, their first real challenge is getting to a place like that.

Most non-working musicians fail in rehearsal time before they can get started in "business". Those who do get their craft down have to then invest time/money in treating their "company" like a serious business. They want to play but they aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get past the audition stage (or they haven't gotten the rehearsals in to pass that test).

It's pretty easy to spot the novices. It's less easy to spot journeyman from the masters, because it has little to do with talent once you've gotten past the novice stage. But your unkind comments about people who are on a different path than yours are really arrogant, and every job ends sooner or later, including yours.

Remember this proverb: Pride comes before a fall.

Remember pride/ego works against you, not for you..

The bigger you think you are, the harder you fall when you hit bottom.
(I have frequent flyer miles accumulated, I hit the bottom so many times.)

"Only the penitent man shall pass".

In my area the club rate is anywhere from $150 to $400.

A few years ago we could play anywhere we wanted for $450 in our area, but the guys we all sat down and said we want $150 a man, so $600 for the 4 of us, for a while noone would bite, but oddly lately Ive actually turned down a few offers cause we just dont want to play as much anyway.

I guess Im lucky that we have a proven commodity, yea it is a business, we are just HOs, looking for dough.

We pretty much have gigs lined up into spring every 6 weeks or so.

Honestly I dont know why people like our band and come to see it, in fact if I was a customer I cant see me getting excited about seeing us very often. LOL, but lately I havent been itting the clubs like I did a few years ago, quite honestly in my area there are only a couple of bands that I will go see, the rest are just lounge lizards to me, kinda on the level of ole Carl here, just going thru the motions, except I know for a fact none of them are making money, cause the ones I know always ask how we do it, I say well first we learned not to sell ourselves short and do every gig that comes down the pike.

You know Mr Scott when I hit bottom, and I
mean the very bottom, my sister told me,
at least when you hit bottom you know your
building on solid ground.
You go for it Mr. Carl I hope you succeed,
I have a different vision of success than you,
and I hope mine pays more, but who knows.

I'd probably be sitting at the bar with the
Capt. heckling you till someone did something
about me. Do you guys do Mack the Knife?

Do you guys do Mack the Knife?

Lynard, I carved my name on the bottom and you too can read it if you fall all the way down...

Just remember that nothing is sure but death and taxes.

And that remark about "mack the knife" is a slash and a half !!! lol

He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.
Benjamin Franklin