General Music Chat

How does one go about teaching someone how to find a useable tone? I can set things up for guitarists, but I've yet to find a way to TEACH someone how to do it.

The reason I'm posting this - Sunday night at the open mic, a guitarist I used to work with came in. He had a nice lil Telly & a tube amp. He just plugged in & started jamming with ppl without noticing how bad his tone sounds. It was really noticeable horrid, & you know it's bad when non-musicians mention it. This guy is really good at PLAYING, but he's hopelessly lost when it comes to finding a sound that doesn't either grate on your nerves or simply leave ya wondering why he even bothers to play.

Isn't that why it is called tone deaf? Some people are. I don't think you can teach someone to hear what they are incapable of hearing.

You misunderstand me, I think. This guy has perfect pitch, plays in key, & does it all very well. It's the tone, the equalization & effects choices he makes that ruin his sound.

I can teach you the polite thing to say... but I can't teach you when to say the polite thing.

Same with Tone... either you have an ear for it... or you don't. I cannot imagine how to approach someone and start off in the right direction on correcting their tone.

Had a guitarist friend who played a SG Custom thru a Great Mesa Boogie Head... plugged into a vocal monitor. Sounded like feline anal sex would probably sound. Over a year I encouraged, suggested, even offered to let him use one of my spare cabs... Nooooooo he LIKED THE SOUND!

Ex-rhythm guitarist... did I mention that?

So, the fellow your talking about... lost ball in high weeds.

I agree. Probably not something you can teach.

I mean, maybe you could if they were willing to learn. You could sit down with them and you'd need a bunch of different samples from various artists so you could explain to them the differences in tones and shapes, etc. Maybe, with a really open minded player, you could teach them.

What Dewy said: The key is "He liked the tone" He is hearing something you aren't hearing. Isn't that obvious since he has good pitch and all the other qualities that make for a good musician? He is hearing what HE likes to hear.

Maybe all he has to do is find a band looking for his tone. Then his tone would be great. And all you need to do is find a musician who's tone your band likes. I know. .... Too simplistic.

Use food analogies.
Make him two bowls of soup. One bowl, with no more than 4 ingerdients - get as kickazz of a recipe as you can find.
The other bowl... put in like 15 to 20 ingredients, and not complimentary ones.
Ask him to sample the soups and tell you which one hee likes better.
Then ask him why he didnt like the one soup.

Then you say... "That soup is like your guitar tone. Too much crap mucking it up. Your tone should be like the other soup. Palateable, with less ingredients - easier on your senses."

Tone deaf is asking someone to sing middle C and you get Bb or anything other than what you asked for.

The worst is when you play the note for the vocalist and he/she is still flat/sharp. (>???!?!?!?!??!?!?) That's tone deaf! (as in couldn't carry a tune with a bucket)

AS for recognizing good tone>? egads...

I know everyone seems to have a tonal quality they like, I just guess some do not like the tonal qualities most of the rest of the world find pleasing.

I have my own beliefs about the tonal qualities of the guitar I use and the amp I use, but try to be flexible.

I.E> We set up and I use the same stuff over and over, but one guy in particular seems to have a better ear when it comes to mixing everything together. Thus I defer to his ear and I have to say, he's right thus far.

I'd have a different setting, but I don't think it would sound as good with everything else going all at once. (SUM OF ALL PARTS NEEDED TO CREATE MORE THAN CURRENTLY EXISTS INDIVIDUALLY OR SEPARATELY)

hmm odd topic.

Tone is somewhat an acquired taste.

I can find a room full of people who might equate Bob Dylan's or even Roy Orbison's voices (tones) to fingernails on a chalkboard.

I've been listening to the box set of the Monterrey Festival (1967), many of the guitar tones are extremely sharp and piercing - by today's standards might be awful, but I hear something wonderful in there....

So maybe someone with bad tone is just miles ahead of everyone else? Who knows lol.

But, honestly, chances are that their tone just sucks haha.

Aw, c'mon! There hafta be some sort of "general rules of thumb," don't there? This guy just plugs in & goes, without even TRYING to set a tone. It's like he fears it. He freely admits that it's a problem, & I'm at a complete loss on how to show him anything, other than, ya know, doing it for him, cutting back on the mids, tweaking this or that, but I have a difficult time explaining the WHY's to him, when he seems so at sea...

Guitar tone is beauty in the eye of the beholder.
I like big butts ... er I mean ... a gritty thick tone. The more I play the more I like the sound of just my guitar and my amp. I really don't want effects coloring what my amp is putting out.
Though I am investigating an EQ to shape the tone my guitar sends to the amp. Just to brighten it up some. I'd like to think my band has a unique "signature sound" and I want my axe to be complementary to that without sounding like someone else.

The issue of tone is definitely a hard one to deal with.

If I had to guess without even hearing him, based on what you described, he's someone who likes to hear extreme treble. If that's the case, then put him right in front of the amp. Beam it at him. Tell him to step back... And YOU play the guitar. Generally, these are people who just like to hear themselves play. In a mix, they like to hear themselves over everyone else either through the monitor, or especially if they don't have a monitor in front of them. So they CRANK the treble to be able to hear themselves without taking in consideration what it's doing to the crowd. In their world, the crowd is hearing the same mix he is while he's on stage which is a very common misconception.

Beam his own amp at him.. Pierce his ears with his own equipment. Make sure you kinda suck when you're doing it too. Do a sh*tty rendition of a solo in the high notes. Crank it loud. It's much different to people when they aren't in control of MAKING the noise. All of the sudden, it's not the bliss they experience when THEY are playing instead of just listening.

The only way you're going to get through to players who do this kind of thing, is to shoot them with their own gun before you can even begin to give them any advice.

Aw, c'mon! There hafta be some sort of "general rules of thumb," don't there? This guy just plugs in & goes, without even TRYING to set a tone. It's like he fears it. He freely admits that it's a problem, & I'm at a complete loss on how to show him anything, other than, ya know, doing it for him, cutting back on the mids, tweaking this or that, but I have a difficult time explaining the WHY's to him, when he seems so at sea...

hmm yeah, it's weird that he can hear pitch well enough to be a good player, but cannot discern what tone is... although MOST people I've played with have no concept of good tone, so I'm at a loss also-

There's no general rule other than flatline the eq (everything at 12:00) and let the guitar speak for itself.

What's worse though, is when a sound guy takes a great tone coming out of an amp, and uses the EQ panel on the PA to destroy it. Once I had to threaten to walk off if he didn't flatline the PA's eq on my guitar lol. The guy scooped the mids and jacked the highs, I sounded like fingernails on a chalk board, quite literally.

He graduated Julliard, has toured Germany & much of Europe. He's technically impressive, but all his taste is in his mouth. We tried him in our high-energy rockabilly-ish band, & all he wanted to do was stifle us with teensy little licks & chord chops until we fell asleep. And through it all, I had to continually set his tone for him or I'd end up screaming & running off the stage.

He is an enigma. I've met a LOT of guitarists who can't find a tone, though, & it doesn't seem to matter thier level of playing, or how much experience on stage.

I think I'll delve into this issue a bit more. There has to be a book or a DVD to teach this stuff.

Im at a loss here, you either have it or you dont in my opinion.

Ive had people say I have terrible tone but I like what I sound like. Shredd may have a point, roll back the treble and mids on his amp and try to warm his sound up some.

Most people over time develop an idea of what they want to sound like and go in that direction.

I hear stuff on the radio sometimes that grates my ears, but someone likes it.

If its just an open mic I wouldnt worry about it.