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1-4-5

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86%
1
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1
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#85592 by Starfish Scott
Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:12 pm
Do you understand 1-4-5?

Too many people not getting this.
Explanation? or no..

EVERYONE should know this. By all means vote...
Last edited by Starfish Scott on Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#85599 by philbymon
Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:21 pm
...yeah, I get it.

I worked with this guitarist who was all about how much he knows about music, & he'd talk numbers instead of chords, but he'd also talk numbers when he was talking about the measure's emphasis. It got confusing real fast, & I still think he was an obnoxious ass who was more about showing off than he was about communication.
Last edited by philbymon on Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#85600 by Starfish Scott
Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:23 pm
Sorry the poll burped.. I think it's ok now..

Philby if you said no, I would fall down hard in amazement/pure shock.

If you explain it, I doubt anyone will say NO.. lol

#85605 by Wraun
Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:29 pm
I thought everyone knew that :shock:
I'm a drummer and I know that.
Music is all numbers, right from time, through scales and right up to pitch. And then all the way to how many bassists does it take to change a light bulb. :lol:

#85613 by ratsass
Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:04 pm
A very simplistic way to look at it is to look at the Ionian mode (do, re, mi, etc.) 7 notes make it up. In C, it would go C D E F G A B. If you take those notes and use them as scales, by number it would be I II III IV V VI VII and the I would be major, the II - minor, the III - minor, the IV - major, the V - major, the VI - minor, and the VII - minor.
Notice the I, IV and V are all majors and that's what makes the I, IV, V progression work. Note also that you can throw any of those minors in with it and add flavor to the song (a bridge or chorus).
They also work if changed to 7th's, majors and minors both.
So, working in C, the simple chords would be:
C maj, D min, E min, F maj, G maj, A min, and B min.
These also correspond to the 7 modes.
Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian. The Locrian mainly is there because it works out mathematically, but isn't usually used near as much as the others because it is chaotic. It is named for Thor's brother Loki who was the god of chaos.

#85615 by Starfish Scott
Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:08 pm
lol

Do not forget that the 6th step in the scale + minor = relative minor.

Fished my ass out of the drink more times than I care to admit.

i.e. "E" (or 1) + 6 = C
C + minor = Cm is the relative minor of E major. (right? gulp) lol

#85622 by ratsass
Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:19 pm
Hell, I always thought a relative minor was a 17 year old nephew. :)

#85625 by philbymon
Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:25 pm
The relative minor of E major is C # m. They're 3 frets apart, if you wanna look at it like that.

Thus, Em is the relative minor of G major. F#m - Amajor. Bm = D major...etc etc etc.

Coolest way for me to look at it is on a keyboard. C major is all white keys. Same for A minor. Thus, they're related, notewise. Same notes. Same order. Different staring point. A minor is the 6th mode of the C scale. Stuff like that there...

#85632 by Starfish Scott
Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:37 pm
OUCH.. ok, well at least i can play it if I can't get the names correct.

C#m, yes ok now I'll have it tattooed on my arm. lol

#85659 by sanshouheil
Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:40 am
What the heck? I just play the guitar man. I aint no mathmatician.
I suppose if the practices and gigs slow down, and the day job offers up some spare time and change. I should invest more time, effort and money into formal musical edimification.
As for now, ignorance is my bliss.

I am a very visual / physical person. You can explain stuff to me all day and I am like u-dough!
Show me, let me put my hands on it, and it's like oh yea man been doing that all along. :wink:
Can be frustrating.

#85666 by fisherman bob
Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:29 am
I know little about numbers, music theory. If I had to think about it while singing I would screw it up. It's not my job to learn the hard stuff, that's for the guitarist and other soloists in the band. It's hard enough to sing lead and play bass at the same time. I'm on auto pilot. Put a microphone in front of me and a bass in my hands and an audience in front of me and I GO.

#85685 by philbymon
Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:14 pm
Yeah, I know, bob, but those patterns you use to make your work fit can expand if you look at what you're doing (on your off-times). You can play a G run from the Em scale. You can easily play those C major riffs from the Am position. When the chordings get a little strange, out of the usual for 12-bar patterns, your knowledge can enhance your playing 10-fold or more with a little know-how. You can walk virtually anywhere from any position once you realize what fits together, & you get faster on your changes, with fewer blue notes.

#85686 by Kramerguy
Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:21 pm
I know enough to know that every time someone tries to convince me that some band / guitarist is the next new amazing thing, and I hear the usual 1-4-5, I fight that feeling that I'm going to throw up in my own mouth, and when it fades, I find the nearest exit.

Not that some of musics greatest players haven't been on the 145 train, SRV was a credit to the cause, and one of the few who were able to do serious blues without using 145 as a crutch (as often as everyone else).

I like jamming a 145 once in a while, it's fun to wank to, and it IS catchy, but after 50+ years, there's really few, if any, stones unturned. Imagine if every guitar solo in the world used "eruption" as a template ... 50 years later, who wouldn't be ready to jump off a building?

#85723 by Starfish Scott
Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:10 pm
The whole thing is based on that idea of no matter what you play, the net for you to fall to is associated with 1-4-5, most of the time.

#85770 by fisherman bob
Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:26 am
Kramerguy wrote:I know enough to know that every time someone tries to convince me that some band / guitarist is the next new amazing thing, and I hear the usual 1-4-5, I fight that feeling that I'm going to throw up in my own mouth, and when it fades, I find the nearest exit.

Not that some of musics greatest players haven't been on the 145 train, SRV was a credit to the cause, and one of the few who were able to do serious blues without using 145 as a crutch (as often as everyone else).

I like jamming a 145 once in a while, it's fun to wank to, and it IS catchy, but after 50+ years, there's really few, if any, stones unturned. Imagine if every guitar solo in the world used "eruption" as a template ... 50 years later, who wouldn't be ready to jump off a building?
I agree in part. That's one of the things that I CAN'T STAND about "purists." You CAN play 1,4,5 AND make it sound interesting. It's the nuances that separtate the interesting from the boring. It's putting weird timing changes in the mix. It's putting unusual bridges, or unorthodox timing changes in the tunes. A previous band member said that I "bobified" tunes, meaning that I put things in that weren't there before. I can't stand playing tunes exactly like the record, making it sound exactly like something I've heard a thousand times before. When you say you are going to throw up I understand completely. It's like eating the exact same pizza every meal. Pretty soon you'd throw up too. 1,4,5 can be a beautiful thing if nuances are added, if YOU make the song more interesting by CHANGING some things in the tune. It's called CREATIVITY. Do you want to be like a mynah bird and mimic everything or do you want to add YOUR personal touch to every cover you perform, be it 1,4,5 or something similar? Music SHOULD BE about playing a tune YOUR way. There's got to be a way to make ANY song sound better and/or keep your interest. It's called putting YOUR SOUL into the song.

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