General Music Chat

Here ya go Craig:

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Notre-Dame-uproar-over-anti-gay-cartoon-in-student-newspaper.html


I mean... You have to understand - my anger is not at you. And it's not at your beliefs. It's at religion as an institution and the people who advocate this stuff and brainwash their fellow man into this kind of sick thinking...

Disgusting

Such a cartoon as this IS certainly distasteful AND they made an apology for printing it in their publication. A dumbass cartoon such as this isn't really appropriate for ANY publication HOWEVER we do have freedom of speech AND freedom of press in this country, or at least I thought we did. No matter how vile something might be, I think it is better NOT to censor anything. In fact, whoever puts out such a cartoon as this proves what a real dumbass they are and it rightfully reflects negatively on the publication that published it..

I agree with you.

Very wrong!

Many Christians have little understanding of the complex issues involving homosexuality. Only recently, is strong evidence being presented that there is a biological basis for some homosexuality, whereas, even FROM BIRTH a homosexual's brain functions are DIFFERENT from a heterosexual's. This is some of the strongest evidence yet, that people REALLY CAN be "born gay".

For myself, I hope to educate Christianity, and one day hopefully, mainstream churches themselves to these facts, so they will begin to re-think their position on homosexuality. But that is a LONG ROAD when they tend to see only "immorality" rather than a "biological basis" for their sexual orientation.

You know very well though, that there are homosexual Christian ministers, and churches which officiate homosexual marriages, etc...

It is an understandable dilemma for Christians seeking to live a "moral life" however, to find some wiggle room, without feeling they are condoning something they have always understood to be immoral.

And even though I DO understand that this is a biological phenomenon, I would still agree with them, that it is NOT God's original ideal for "family". So why does it occur? It may be a natural anomaly, the way only a certain percentage of the population are born albino.

I don't have these answers.

I just know that if I step into the heart of a homosexual person, who has been derided by ANY fundamental religious person as being "evil" or "sinful" and yet, they KNOW they are born that way, by nature?

How crushing and difficult would that be?

To be derided for something you were BORN being.

THAT, FOR CERTAIN is wrong of people to do!

Anything else? I don't know what the correct spiritual position is. I just KNOW that God is far less concerned about our sexual orientation, than He is about whether we LOVE ONE ANOTHER of not!

I agree with you.

Very wrong!

Many Christians have little understanding of the complex issues involving homosexuality. Only recently, is strong evidence being presented that there is a biological basis for some homosexuality, whereas, even FROM BIRTH a homosexual's brain functions are DIFFERENT from a heterosexual's. This is some of the strongest evidence yet, that people REALLY CAN be "born gay".

For myself, I hope to educate Christianity, and one day hopefully, mainstream churches themselves to these facts, so they will begin to re-think their position on homosexuality. But that is a LONG ROAD when they tend to see only "immorality" rather than a "biological basis" for their sexual orientation.

You know very well though, that there are homosexual Christian ministers, and churches which officiate homosexual marriages, etc...

It is an understandable dilemma for Christians seeking to live a "moral life" however, to find some wiggle room, without feeling they are condoning something they have always understood to be immoral.

And even though I DO understand that this is a biological phenomenon, I would still agree with them, that it is NOT God's original ideal for "family". So why does it occur? It may be a natural anomaly, the way only a certain percentage of the population are born albino.

I don't have these answers.

I just know that if I step into the heart of a homosexual person, who has been derided by ANY fundamental religious person as being "evil" or "sinful" and yet, they KNOW they are born that way, and by nature...

Well...

How crushing and difficult would that be?

To be derided for something you were BORN being.

THAT, FOR CERTAIN is wrong of people to do!

Anything else? I don't know what the correct spiritual position is.

I just KNOW that God is far less concerned about our sexual orientation, than He is about whether we LOVE ONE ANOTHER or not!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/04/danish-cartoonist-axe-attack


I have a cartoon story too though....

-----


The Danish cartoonist who survived an axe attack

Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard has been living in fear since he drew his notorious Muhammad cartoon. But even that could not prepare him for being attacked in his own home by a Muslim seeking revenge




In September 2005, the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard was asked by his newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, to draw the prophet Muhammad "as you see him". He did, and it changed his life. The resulting cartoon was deemed blasphemous by hardline Muslims around the world and drew death threats. More than four years later, after Westergaard had already been forced to spend a harrowing few months on the run with his wife Gitte, a 28-year-old man of Somali origin forced his way into their home last Friday evening wielding an axe and a knife.

At the time, Westergaard was looking after his five-year-old granddaughter, Stephanie. He was confronted with a terrible choice: risk being killed in front of his granddaughter, or trust that the PET, Denmark's security and intelligence service, knew what they were talking about when they had told him terrorists usually don't harm family members but stick to their target.

Westergaard chose to escape into his bathroom, which had been specially fortified as a "panic room", while Stephanie was left sitting in the living room. From the bathroom he alerted the police as his assailant reportedly battered the reinforced door with the axe, shouting, "We will get our revenge!"

"Those minutes were horrible," Westergaard recalled yesterday. "But I think I have got through this fairly well – and so, it seems, did my grandchild. That, of course, is the main thing. I would not have been able to live with myself if something had happened to her."

From the outside, Westergaard's house in Aarhus, Denmark's second-biggest city, looks like your average suburban home. But according to the cartoonist, it is a "fortress without a moat", equipped with security cameras and armoured windows. Living under the constant threat of revenge, he has always had to take precautions when leaving his home – visits to the gym, for example, could not be at predictable hours, so he would change his schedule every week. He carries a personal alarm and tracking device everywhere, and every day a police car would escort him to and from his work at Denmark's biggest-selling daily newspaper.

Westergaard had been one of 12 artists who agreed to the commission for Jyllands-Posten, but his drawing of a bearded man with a bomb in his turban became the most famous – or notorious. He says he didn't "necessarily" depict Muhammad; the bearded man might just as well have been a fundamentalist – a Taliban fighter, for example. Some of the other cartoons, meanwhile, clearly did not depict the prophet. But soon after 30 September 2005, when the 12 images appeared under the headline "The Face of Muhammad", they collectively became infamous as "the Muhammad cartoons".

Initially, reactions from the Muslim community were – for the most part – moderate. Three thousand Danish Muslims protested in Copenhagen, and Muslim organisations, politicians and ambassadors expressed their disapproval. Within months, however, things had turned violent. In February 2006, as he sat by his son's swimming pool in Florida, Westergaard heard that the Danish embassies in Damascus, Beirut and Teheran had been set on fire by protesters. His daughter-in-law turned white and begged him not to go home.

"At that point I realised that Denmark had lost its innocence," Westergaard told me last year. Despite his daughter-in-law's pleas, he went home as fast as he could, into a storm later described as Denmark's worst international crisis since the second world war.

But the true danger to Westergaard only became clear on 8 November 2007, more than two years after the publication of the cartoons, as he and Gitte were getting ready for a trip to Paris. They had already packed their suitcases – but they never left for France. Instead, the couple were urgently evacuated by the PET, who believed three men were planning to kill the cartoonist in his home.

What followed was not blue skies, dips in the sea and leisurely barbecues but cold, stress and loneliness in a "summerhouse odyssey", as Westergaard calls it. In all, they were forced to move nine times and drive nine different cars as they migrated from holiday cottage to holiday cottage on the outskirts of Aarhus, spending no longer than four weeks anywhere.

Isolated, missing his own bed and his books, Westergaard said of the time that, "If I had had a tendency to drink, I would have been drunk every single night." Gitte never blamed him, but at times the couple would snap at each other. "You feel locked up," he said. "Neither of us could predict how long we would have to stay, or what was going to happen."

With his red trousers, leather waistcoat, broad-brimmed black hat and giraffe-headed walking stick, Westergaard is not a man who easily blends into a crowd. At the Radisson SAS in Aarhus (sometimes a hotel room took the place of a holiday cottage), the Westergaards were asked to leave as their presence was considered a safety risk. At another hotel, while the couple were unloading luggage from their car, they came to the attention of two men and two women who were apparently of Middle Eastern origin.

"May you burn in hell!" one of the men shouted at Westergaard.

"Can we talk about it?" the cartoonist asked.

"May you burn in hell," the man repeated.

"Well, I guess we'll have to talk about it in hell, then," Westergaard finally said. When the police arrived five minutes later, the party of four was long gone.

On another night during their period in hiding, the phone rang in the cottage and an official told Gitte not to bother coming back to the kindergarten at which she worked. The sacking was swiftly reversed after the press heard of it and Aarhus's mayor intervened. For a while, though, Westergaard believed he and his wife were being "stigmatised by the surrounding society", as he puts it. It might have been irrational, he said, but "it is actually quite horrible".

The cartoonist says Friday's attack in his own home was his lowest moment since the cartoons were published. But he adds that smaller things get to him too, such as when a family member calls the intelligence service to ask if it is safe to invite him to a party. He wants to keep working – but right now he is back in a safe house and can't go to the office. He hopes they can work something out, but it depends on the security.

When I met Westergaard before this latest attack, there was a touch of melancholy in his eyes – but also anger and defiance. "I do not see myself as a particularly brave man," he said then. "If the country was occupied, I don't think I would be running around doing sabotage; I would probably be sitting somewhere doing my drawings. But in this situation I got angry. It is not right that you are threatened in your own country just for doing your job. That's an absurdity that I have actually benefited from, because it grants me a certain defiance and stubbornness. I won't stand for it. And that really reduces the fear a great deal."

Islamists obviously don't believe in freedom of speech or freedom of the press...

reminds me of when sebastian back took all that heat for the 'silly faggots dicks are for chicks' t-shirt.

It annoys me tho, when folks say "see, that guy is sinning... therefore he can't be a christian" or "see, he did something wrong therefore religion is bad". As if to say you/they have poked some big hole in the logic and we can discount then entire institution because one human fell short of being without sin.

only one human was able to avoid sin according to the bible I was force fed.

I've seen both books (the bible and the koran) justify horrible things, and I've seen both books promote peace... it just depends how you listen I guess.

afa the comic... most humor comes at the expense of someone... but who it is delivered by is what has us all up in arms. If a gay man told me that joke -I have to be honest with myself... I'd laugh my ass off... but if a christian man tells it.... I'd feel ashamed.

Mike,

The Notre Dame one, was more than poor taste... It was potentially encouraging violence against homosexuals. They are already the object of violence and even murder, simply for being different.

What if the cartoon was a black man in a noose?

We've graduated past that.

Why not this?

To be honest, Colors, I didn't see one single mention of religion or Christianity in that entire article. You just assume that because he makes fun of homosexuals in a little cartoon, that means he's a Christian.

I didn't think the cartoon was that bad...I make jokes like that all day long.

And nobody makes that much of an uproar over all the "anti-Christian" media: tv shows, movies, cartoons, comics, and books. How come nobody makes a big deal when Family Guy airs an entire episode making fun of Jesus? And if they made this SAME homosexual joke on Family Guy, nobody would care!

Only recently, is strong evidence being presented that there is a biological basis for some homosexuality, whereas, even FROM BIRTH a homosexual's brain functions are DIFFERENT from a heterosexual's. This is some of the strongest evidence yet, that people REALLY CAN be "born gay".

Craig, how can you believe in God, and then say something like that?

Homosexuality is a sin, and the Bible says so. So why would God create a man to naturally BE homosexual?

Islamists obviously don't believe in freedom of speech or freedom of the press...

But christians do, right bob? That's why you can't find "The Wizard Of Oz" in school libraries anymore, cuz they had it yanked from the shelves back in the 80's, cuz it mentions a "good witch." That's also why they try to push thier agendas on the rest of us, like the 10 Commandments being put on gov't buildings, cuz freedom of speech, freedom of the press, & freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom FROM any of those things. All's fair with any religious group, as long as thier personal agenda is catered to.

Homosexuality is a sin, and the Bible says so. So why would God create a man to naturally BE homosexual?

Could you BE more uninformed or misinformed? See, this is what's wrong with teaching by religious dogma. Ppl actually DO believe things like this, without thinking things through...

The bible says the world has 4 corners, Ryan. Does that make it flat, or like a 4-sided pyramid? What does your education tell you?

Look at the world, Ryan. It's overpopulated, & it's most likely getting worse. Do you REALLY think that god wants you to go forth & to continue to "begat" indefinitely?

There are actually ppl out there who believe that man cannot destroy that which god has made...therefore man has never caused a single species' extinction. This kind of thinking is worse than being uneducated or primitive or childish, it's downright dangerous at times.

As we unlock the secrets of DNA, we keep finding all sorts of things that we didn't necessarilly believe before, Ryan. Will you hold onto your "lessons" from 2,000+ years ago, or try to figure out if they're actually correct? The stuff about how man should not lay with man was from way before Jesus, btw, so those lessons are far older than even 2,000 years, yet this one was kept out of the 10 comandments for some reason. Have you followed THOSE perfectly all your life?

Will you remove the free will of others to choose thier own life style? Is THAT what your god tells you to do? Cuz if so, this country is totally against that sort of thing (supposedly, by law & constitution) - does that mean that the USA is anti-god?

How far can you take this, Ryan?

To be honest, Colors, I didn't see one single mention of religion or Christianity in that entire article. You just assume that because he makes fun of homosexuals in a little cartoon, that means he's a Christian.

Um...it's Notre Dame, Ryan...not some state school.

I didn't think the cartoon was that bad...I make jokes like that all day long.

Yep. I'm sure you do. That makes it ALL okay & hunky-dorry, don't it? Nothing like promoting a lil hatred to complete one's day, eh? Well, as long as it's condoned by the bible, anyway!

Homosexuality is a sin, and the Bible says so.

Ok, but the Bible also says there are unicorns and dragons.

But there aren't.

The Bible says that God needed a visual aid (rainbows) to "REMEMBER" His promise not to kill everyone on Earth again. Do you really believe that an "omniscient" (All-Knowing) God, could "forget" His own promise? And that He needs to look into the sky and "SEE" a rainbow, to REMEMBER not to kill us all again? It's a good thing we have water hoses in most backyards now, cause kids everywhere, are probably saving all our asses from mass genocide, when they spray those garden hoses in the air, to make rainbows!

The Bible also says that children should be stoned to DEATH merely for talking back to their parents.

And you're a little hot head brother. (you know it's true)

How many times would you have been killed by mom and dad by now, if we still followed that rule?

So why would God create a man to naturally BE homosexual?

I don't think He does.

There are anomalies and accidents in nature.

No offense to homosexuals, but my best guess, is that it is a NATURAL accident.

There are MANY things in NATURE, that we don't want, but we have them anyway.

Does God create innocent children to be born with no arms or legs?

Does God create innocent children to be born with heart defects?

Does God create innocent children to be co-joined twins?


Here's a doozy for you...


Does God create hermaphrodites? A hermaphrodite is a person born with BOTH male and female sexual organs. YES, this does happen all the time. When this occurs, the PARENT WILL DECIDE which sex the child will live their life as, and the doctor SURGICALLY ALTERS the child, whichever way the parent has told them to.

Just linger on that one for a moment.

The child can be EITHER male or female. A decision MUST be made, otherwise they have both parts, and besides CONFUSING, it may even be unhealthy (?)

Do you believe that being a hermaphrodite is a sin?

They are BORN that way. No choice involved.

The problem is, that we are not only MALE and FEMALE in our sexual organs, but our BRAINS tell us whether we are masculine or feminine as well. Male and Female brains function VERY DIFFERENTLY. As males and females, we use DIFFERENT parts of our brains for how we process speech, hearing, etc... In the temporal neocortex, for example, men have a higher density of synapses.

There are numerous studies showing that men and women THINK differently.

This is not a philosophical difference, but a PHYSICALLY MEASURABLE one! Brain waves can be viewed, from each, and a doctor will know, that he is looking at a male brain or a female brain.

So....

It is not ONLY our sexual organs that differentiate us, but also our BRAINS!

So here is the dilemma with that... What if the parent of a hermaphrodite, DECIDES to the best of their ability, that their child should be MALE, and yet once that child is developing, and synapses are being formed, it becomes evident that they really should have been a girl, because "he" had a girl's brain. Now what is this person to do? They were born with BOTH sexual parts, but the decision was made to allow him to live as a MALE, and yet is brain is FEMALE and contradicts with his INTERNAL NATURE.

Now he has the BODY of a MALE, but the BRAIN of a FEMALE!

When is he sinning?

Is it sin, if he uses his MALE BODY and tries to live as a male, just because someone left his penis in place, even though he SHOULD have been a FEMALE, matching his brain patterns?

Or is he sinning, because he has a MALE BODY and tries to live as a male as a result, and yet he DENIES the female side of him, his BRAIN that "God" gave him?

Do you see?

There is a NATURAL conflict, and this conflict is NOT one he had a CHOICE about.

Another question to consider is... What makes us more of a PERSON? Our extremities (any protruding parts - LOL) or our INSIDE NATURE... our BRAINS and EMOTIONS, etc...

This is a crucial question, because if being a real PERSON is dependent on our EXTREMETIES, then someone born with NO ARMS AND LEGS, would not be considered a person would they? They are missing key elements that make them a PERSON.

Like Christopher Reeve. After paralysis, his body was USELESS, but his BRAIN still functioned perfectly. His wife stayed with someone, who may as well have NOT had a body, since it was paralyzed... and she stayed for YEARS in a continuing LOVING RELATIONSHIP of MARRIAGE, thought he was not "complete". Was she WRONG in believing that because his BRAIN and EMOTIONS and COMMUNICATION ABILITY was intact, that she had a REAL RELATIONSHIP with her husband still?

I think you would agree that the MIND is more related to WHO WE ARE, as PEOPLE, than whether we have arms or legs, or have penises or not!

If you do agree, then realize, that a person BORN with a male body, but who has a FEMALE BRAIN, is actually DENYING his TRUER NATURE, his REAL SELF, by FORCING HIMSELF to "ACT" as if he were truly male, merely because nature f*cked up, and did not match his brain to his sexual organs.

In that case, even he was pleasing Fundamental Religionists who are ignorant of scientific facts, by living a charade, he would be potentially committing OTHER sins, like LYING for one, because he makes himself live life as a male, though his truer self, his brain, is actually female. He is DENYING what is actually MORE NATURAL to him... to live as a female, simply because he was BORN with male sexual organs rather than female, or because his PARENTS made the wrong choice for him.

In that last case, there is a medical remedy... a sex change operation, to CORRECT the error his parents made, and yet... That would be considered a SIN too, by fundamentalists, who surely believe that sex change operations are wrong.

But are they?

How else does that person CORRECT the mistake that nature has made?


Hopefully you understand the seriousness and difficulties of the issues involved here? Is God the author of confusion? God did not MAKE them this way, in my opinion, but instead, like being an albino or having blue eyes (which entered the world as a freak genetic mutation) or co-joined twins, or being born with no hands, and having to eat and drive with FEET the rest of your life...

This was NO CHOICE, but the individual (whether gay, or born with no hands) NOW HAS TO LIVE AND DEAL with the after-effects of what nature has given him from BIRTH!


Sin?


It's not that easy, quite clearly!


And Ryan, no offense...

But if I were you, I would be much more concerned about MY OWN HEART, than judging people who are born, NOT BY CHOICE, with genetic mutations or "accidents" of nature.

The heart I am referring to, is the one that allowed you to post a status message on Facebook, basically suggesting that Haiti DESERVED a common natural disaster, as if God sent them an Earthquake, because you believe that all Haitians are nothing but AIDS-RIDDEN PROSTITUTES, VOODOO DOCTORS and gee, I forgot all the other accusations you made against them.


50,000 DEAD RYAN! (including women, children, doctors, missionaries)

I happen to have had a friend, about 15 years ago, that was a Christian Minister from Haiti. He lives in Miami and even has a small radio program, but he travels to Haiti, whenever he can put the money together... HIS OWN MONEY, and he brings "sugar water" which is cheaper to buy and make than TEA or LEMONADE or whatever, and dozens upon dozens of town's people, will gather, just to receive that treat. They are so f*cking poor, that YES, just some water with sugar in it, is a treat to them.

He then ministers the gospel to them for hours upon hours, and leads MANY MANY Haitians to FAIHT IN CHRIST, and he also baptizes them, before leaving. He has begun at least a dozen CHURCHES there are as well, so that they will CONTINUE to be ministered to, when he has to leave. HE RISKS HIS LIFE doing this, because Voodoo Doctors have such a powerful hold over many people there, that they literally TRY TO KILL HIM when they find out he is there, because he takes so many of the people, AWAY from belief in Voodoo and other superstitions.

Do you think God wants to kill my friend, for risking his life to bring Haiti to Christ? Does he want to destroy all the wonderful NEW CHURCHES that my friend has PAINSTAKINGLY begun in Haiti over the last several decades?

He has risked his life, for DECADES, winning souls for the Lord, and building schools and churches, ONLY TO HAVE 3 DECADES of Christian ministry WIPED OUT in a single moment?

Go back to your Bible and read the story of the prodigal son, and see what kind of heart your Father in Heaven has for the LOST... including the HATIAN LOST sons and daughters, that God is trying to reach through good and sacrificial people, like my friend.

You need to breathe... pray... and think... before offending everyone you come into contact with, with these superficial JUDGEMENTS of yours, that in truth, may have other reasonable explanations, than what you consider only in brief outbursts.

God loves us Ryan.

God does not CREATE children with crippling birth defects. He does not CREATE hermaphrodites, He does not CREATE co-joined twins, one of which will very often die, whether left together, or surgically separated... And God cares FAR MORE about whether someone is a LOVING and SACRIFICIAL "neighbor" than what someone's sexual orientation is... and PARTICULARLY, when they have no real choice in the matter!

I pray you wise up.

You have the determination of a lion, but a misguided heart, which seems to short-circuit your natural ability to have compassion for others.

GOD "IS" LOVE RYAN!

You disappoint me, Craig

You disappoint me, Craig

Why?

Mike,

The Notre Dame one, was more than poor taste... It was potentially encouraging violence against homosexuals. They are already the object of violence and even murder, simply for being different.

What if the cartoon was a black man in a noose?

We've graduated past that.

Why not this?

Not necc saying the cartoon was in good taste... but my fav humor is in bad taste... and sure, the kind of folk who would beat a homosexual found this amusing... but then so did I... and there is zero chance I will beat a homosexual based on hearing it.

Does it reflect negatively on the school and the paper: hell yes... and it probably shouldn't have been in the paper because of that... but again... depending on where it came from it would be totally ok.

If it had been a professor making the joke in class I would have very strong feelings about it.
If it had been a comedian in a club I'd have been fine with it.