United States

I've wondered what the rise in Cesarian births means for our future; will women someday be unable to have children without medical intervention?

We are weaker as a species now than we have ever been.
Generation after generation after generation those who would not have survived natural selection have bred more that cannot.
Some scientist speculate that less than %10 of the industrialised nations population are capable of surviving outside the bubble of civilisation.
Much of the birth defects and disease we commonaly atribute to polution is more than likely nothing but dilution of the genetic pool.

To a point I agree. We are no longer hunter gatherers, that's for certain. Some are in the money world but they don't count in this equation.

I agree with scientists too. Sad no one bothers to visit different places and cultures. It offers up a completely different view to the often stale one you have over here. NO OFFENCE MEANT.

But I would counter having seen at first hand that the human being has a spirit larger than most give it credit for.

I've wondered what the rise in Cesarian births means for our future; will women someday be unable to have children without medical intervention?

We are weaker as a species now than we have ever been.
Generation after generation after generation those who would not have survived natural selection have bred more that cannot.
Some scientist speculate that less than %10 of the industrialised nations population are capable of surviving outside the bubble of civilisation.
Much of the birth defects and disease we commonaly atribute to polution is more than likely nothing but dilution of the genetic pool.

I'm new to this site and the forums here for that matter. I chose this one, because religion and politics are the most debated topics. Anywho... there's been some interesting stuff brought up here. I am a christian and have been raised that way, but have encountered some things that have happened in my life and I now choose to give credit to God. Someone refered to God loving us unconditionally, and that is true by my experiences and the teachings of my faith, but he has also given us the freedom of choice. Christ had it as well, as God in human form, or the Evil would not have tempted him in the wilderness numerous times.

Anyways, the point I wanted to add is: Someone talked about the Holy Spirit's anointing of a room they were in... I have experienced that as well in church on a weekly basis. I also experience that in conversations often times when talking about something of depth and meaning. As mainly musicians here, I'm willing to bet that most has experienced that in live jams or performances on rare occasions (though they may not refer to it as the Holy Spirit), at some point or another. Though, I am now a christian, I haven't always believed in the existence of a "god". I've always considered that feeling of "weightlessness" was my own spirit, but never have really been sure. Just curious if anyone else may have some insight on what that might be on a scientific level of thought.

Well, gentlemen, I read a bit of this and science does have an answer, its called bio-chemistry. I suspect that's as valid as one God that its devotees say has three natures, hmmmmmm..... Monotheism? Not.

Then there's morality. The four major religions of the people's of earth are all working off the same page morality wise and three of them from the same basic texts. However, that does not prevent their congregants from killing, stealing, coveting, adultery and all the rest, no matter how much time they spend on their knees.

For me, Judeo Christian ethics are a fine way to order our morality but no one should try to ever tell me they have a corner on the truth and yet that's what all the sects are about, telling us that they have the truth. They even fight wars about it against each other with God on their sides. Just sayin'.

I've wondered what the rise in Cesarian births means for our future; will women someday be unable to have children without medical intervention?

We are weaker as a species now than we have ever been.
Generation after generation after generation those who would not have survived natural selection have bred more that cannot.
Some scientist speculate that less than %10 of the industrialised nations population are capable of surviving outside the bubble of civilisation.
Much of the birth defects and disease we commonaly atribute to polution is more than likely nothing but dilution of the genetic pool.

The ENTIRE aim of our wonderful medical establishment is to make mankind utterly dependent on medical intervention for their very survival. Genetic research is an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS venture. We are going to start choosing traits and characteristics we feel are advantageous and reject traits and characterisitics we feel are disadvantageous. Eventually NOBODY will be able to survive without genetic intervention. The dilution of the genetic pool is entirely MAN-MADE, and will become even more MAN-MADE as we "advance" into genetic engineering of humans. We have ABSOLUTELY NO FRIGGIN IDEA how choosing traits and characterisitics will interact with our environment. There's far too many mathematical variants in our genetics and environmental factors for us to be able to SAFELY change our genetics. We are entering a very dangerous time in our history. Think of the harm we do to ourselves every day. We take far too many drugs, both legal and illegal. Abortion. Tattoos, breast augemntation, penis enlargement, hair dying, etc. etc. I read a Chinese fortune one time that said "God give you one face and you make yourself another." The safest route forward for us to ensure our survival is to let God take care of us. Wherever possible use natural healing when you get sick or injured. No more abortions. Just live as natural life as possible. We have no idea whatsoever how to artificially improve our lives...

I agree with a fraction of what you're saying Bob but you lump too many things together to accept on face value. Genetic engineering, abortions and tattoos are really too different, even though they are all "unnatural". But then you wear clothes, right? Unnatural. You eat cooked food? Unnatural. You use a computer? Well, you get the idea. Man has been doing unnatural things since we came down from the trees.

I have a real problem with that word. We are of nature, so there is NOTHING that we can do that is unnatural. Anything that we create is a result of a natural process, & is therefore NATURAL; a byproduct, if you will, of our natural existence.

All that plastic et al that we leave behind shows the lengths that we would go to in order to fill our specific needs. You could say that the trash we leave behind is a monument to our success or failure as a species.

I agree with a fraction of what you're saying Bob but you lump too many things together to accept on face value. Genetic engineering, abortions and tattoos are really too different, even though they are all "unnatural". But then you wear clothes, right? Unnatural. You eat cooked food? Unnatural. You use a computer? Well, you get the idea. Man has been doing unnatural things since we came down from the trees.

All true, BUT purposefully altering our DNA is treading on DANGEROUS ground. Tattoos and breast augemntation don't alter our DNA obviously, but man's penchant for changing our own bodies is another less dangerous example of our trying to change ourselves for subjective reasons. CHanging the DNA of your offspring (choosing hair color, eye colr, IQ, etc.) is a subjective reason that could lead to utter disaster and eventually weaken the gene pool to the point that we are utterly helpless on planet Earth. Wearing clothes and using a computer doesn't alter our bodies. (It might if we sit in front a computer all day and don't get any exercise!). Eating whatever, cooked, frozen, raw is surely natural if the food is organic. If it's full of preservatives. food coloring, processed sugar, etc. then most certainly eating is an unnatural activity. Eating anything is not anywhere near as harmful to humanity as altering the genetics of our offspring...or killing our offspring before they have a chance to live outside the womb....

Nothing unnatural bout me burning a squirrel on a stick sittin on a river bank, cept maybe that little bottle of salt n pepper in my pocket.
What has that got to do with this thread?
Not a freakin thing.

Get off MY THREAD!!!

I agree with a fraction of what you're saying Bob but you lump too many things together to accept on face value. Genetic engineering, abortions and tattoos are really too different, even though they are all "unnatural". But then you wear clothes, right? Unnatural. You eat cooked food? Unnatural. You use a computer? Well, you get the idea. Man has been doing unnatural things since we came down from the trees.

All true, BUT purposefully altering our DNA is treading on DANGEROUS ground. Tattoos and breast augemntation don't alter our DNA obviously, but man's penchant for changing our own bodies is another less dangerous example of our trying to change ourselves for subjective reasons. CHanging the DNA of your offspring (choosing hair color, eye colr, IQ, etc.) is a subjective reason that could lead to utter disaster and eventually weaken the gene pool to the point that we are utterly helpless on planet Earth. Wearing clothes and using a computer doesn't alter our bodies. (It might if we sit in front a computer all day and don't get any exercise!). Eating whatever, cooked, frozen, raw is surely natural if the food is organic. If it's full of preservatives. food coloring, processed sugar, etc. then most certainly eating is an unnatural activity. Eating anything is not anywhere near as harmful to humanity as altering the genetics of our offspring...or killing our offspring before they have a chance to live outside the womb....

People alter their bodies because they can Bob. It is their body and they can choose what to do with it regardless of what you or anyone else thinks, says or does. Should we not try to prevent cancer if we can do so genetically? Are you playing God?

Would it not be better to address those problems that are CAUSING the cancer, rather than to alter our systems to be free of it? Are we going to genetically alter ALL life forms on the planet along with ourselves, or let them them flounder & die off?

This is my single biggest issue with American "medicine." We cure very little anymore, preferring to treat a condition indefinitely. What a completely RIDICULOUS way to handle anything! EVERY medicinal treatment has a side affect, including genetic engineering!

The reasons we wanna chronically treat anything is twofold - first, we get to charge & charge for treatments, which is good for the medical communities, economically - second, we don't have to fix any of those problems that we created to cause the medical condition, so there are no lawsuits against our corporations or our gov't who poisoned us in the first place.

We can continue to bury ourselves in our own sh*t, or we can clean up our act, & solve those myriad problems that we created.

Which way is really better? I choose the second, Alex, for a thousand.

This hippie-dippie love for technologies that we don't understand is gonna kill more & more until we actually try to see what we're doing before we do it. still, it's prolly too late, anyway, so go ahead & do what you will...I frikken give up. No sense trying to convince those who kneel at the alter of runaway science...I'm outnumbered...

Cancer has been a problem in man and other animals far longer than we've been polluting the environment. It's a flaw in how cells reproduce over time, and we may be able to prevent certain cancers by altering the instructions for how the cell replicates. Why should we not do this? We may be able to prevent disease and increase the yields from crops and feed more people; why should we not do this? Because some people are afraid of technology?

Cancer has been a problem in man and other animals far longer than we've been polluting the environment.

That is quite true. It's also true that the number of reported cancers has risen over the last few decades. Again I ask - what's better - to find & address the source of cancer, or to rearrange ourselves to avoid it at the cost of getting other illnesses, due to our lack of in-depth knowledge in the area of genetics& forced mutation?

Mary Shelly's "Frankenstein" is a book that should be required reading for every human being, imho. When science is unchecked, ppl ignore the possible results of technological tampering. No matter what one's intents may be, the results can be random, & far worse than we intended.

I make no bones about being frightened by our unchecked technologies. It becomes more obvious to me as time goes by that we know squiddly dot about much of anything, & our actions to make our lives "easier," or even "healthier," are often extremely detrimental to ourselves & our environment.

Look at the carcinogens they're finding in our canned foods, now. That's just a very weak example of how our desire to make things better have backfired on us. When you add in the "profit factor" of the corporations who dump this crap on us, it becomes an even more serious problem.

I have no faith in corporately-driven technology. It's also, by definition, "market-driven," & as bob is so fond of saying - they would dearly love to get us all on the medical regimen, so that we must get their drugs regularly or die.

Getting back to the point of this thread.

I still think that if everyone on this fabled planet sang just one note, not necessarily that in tune either, the world would be a better place the next day.

Sadly I see no sign of that happening even in smaller amounts on Bandmix of late. If we cannot do it then who really can?