General Music Chat

‘Album cuts’ are good songs that just don’t stand out.
Years ago, when we bought an album, there were maybe 2-3 hits, and the rest were album songs.
Now people will download only their favorite songs. There’s no longer a market for album cuts.
That means that most of what we write won’t have a market.
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We need album songs, however.
If you were to perform a concert of ONLY your hits, and nothing else - many of us would be performing very short concerts, myself included.
When performing, we’ll play 8-10 ‘regular’ songs to every hit.
(unless you are playing someone ELSE’S music; then you can choose ONLY hits; there's little risk. But I'm talking about folks who create their own music.)
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Anyway, for every hit, we might write 10 ‘just good’ songs. That ratio, of course, will depend upon each specific artist.
Nowadays, the demand is for great individual songs (hits), - and not albums.
Hey- even a '45' had 2 songs; - a downloaded song doesn’t even have a ‘B’ side.
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People will only want our albums if they expect to find a ton of great music in them.
Food for thought . . .

How true.
How does an unpublished indi artist define / differentiate hits from
"album cuts". Would fan response alone be a significant indicator?
I have also been told through varius sources that a band or artist needs to have a "signature" song. (ours would be YOU GUIDE MY WAY)
Logic would dictate the "signature" song be a hit as well, would it
not?
With our upcomming debut in studio, this is very much food for thought.
The arrangement (order) that the various songs fall in, on a CD, could mean success or failure of the CD as a whole.
Any thoughts on that subject as well would be fitting in this thread.

Good subject RM.

‘Album cuts’ are good songs that just don’t stand out.
Years ago, when we bought an album, there were maybe 2-3 hits, and the rest were album songs.

Depends on what you're listening to. I'd say for pop-rock, that's the case. But there's a wide world of music out there that doesn't conform to that standard (thank God).

Now people will download only their favorite songs. There’s no longer a market for album cuts.

Depends on the genre. If a band's goal is to gain fame and popularity, then sure, that's how it works.

There are some folks who are able to operate outside those lines, however. I'm thinking progressive rock here (Dream Theater, Rush). Dream Theater, in particular, does not write "hits" and "album cuts". They just write music.

That means that most of what we write won’t have a market.

I think it only means that if you want it to mean that. Personally, that is not how I would approach songwriting or cutting an album. I'd put everything I had into every single song and let the chips fall where they may. I would expect a "market" for every song, otherwise I wouldn't write it. And I'd write all my songs that way. If I didn't think a song was as good as the best song on the album, I wouldn't put it on there.

And this, I think, is one of the great crimes of the music industry - the way albums get put together, and the clear differences in attention and effort that songs are given. Producers clearly don't think every song has a chance to be great, so they focus on the ones they think are going to be "hits" and the rest just become filler.

But, bands have, in the past, released albums where every song is golden. It's possible. I think when we start thinking it's not possible, and we expect that we are only going to get a couple "hits" out of an album, we might start actually believing that B.S. an not working as hard on every single song... like we should be.

Nowadays, the demand is for great individual songs (hits), - and not albums.

I disagree completely, totally, 100%.

I don't know a single person who hears of a new album coming out from one of their favorite artists, and hopes there's only one or two "hits" on there.

What they hope is that the entire album kicks ass.

As an artist, you should be trying to make every song the best it can be. You should love every song you write. If you don't, it shouldn't go on an album.

I agree Colors. Things like hits and signature songs are determined by our customers. Our goal as artists should be to make every song the best that it can be and let the market sort it out.

Song order is usually determined by the producer and/or marketing department. Of course for those who self-produce the recordings this also done by the artist.

Putting everything into every song we write - that should go w/out saying, eh?
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Always.
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What determines what is a 'hit' song doesn't always conform to what our personal favorite songs are.
A lot of times, the audience won't love the song we want them to really love.
The one that gets the most applause is often one of our songs that we think is 'also pretty good,' but not necessarily the ones we think are our best songs.
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Oh, btw, as to buying albums . . .
. . . the bands that have already 'made it' - I wasn't even talking about them . . .
You're thinking of well-known artists.
I'm referring to artists who are brand-new, and by themselves, guys no one has heard of, yet . . . trying to break into the world of music.
Folks who are NOT established.
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In that position, your songs really need to stand out; "pretty good," isn't good enough.

As stated our audience will determine what are hits and what could be classified as album songs.
It would be foolish to write a song without the intent of each being a hit.
And I dont believe that was what Alan was getting at.
In the vast array of music and musical styles I have heard and been a fan, genre was not the negotiating factor of the whole album was "kick ass" or just one or two stand out tunes. Rock, Blues, County, Classical, Jazz, some where WAAKer's, most were one or two hit wonders.
I think the percentage of "whole album asskickers" would be way less than %1 of albums produced and sold.
Many of my friends back even in the days of vinyl ( remember LPs ) would get a record from the "big chain" music store, record one or two songs off it, and then return the album saying it was scratched etc.
We very often made our own Cassettes, and shared the music. Sometimes we would even trade out our whole cassette case with a friend for a week.
Even then we new better than spend our hard earned cash on a lame album for just one or two good songs.

Putting everything into every song we write - that should go w/out saying, eh?

One would think, but you never know

What determines what is a 'hit' song doesn't always conform to what our personal favorite songs are.
A lot of times, the audience won't love the song we want them to really love.
The one that gets the most applause is often one of our songs that we think is 'also pretty good,' but not necessarily the ones we think are our best songs.

And that's why I think it is imperative that artists not worry about "hits" and instead just write the best songs they can. The fans will dictate the hits. As long as you, the artist, are happy with every single song, then does it really matter which ones become hits?

Oh, btw, as to buying albums . . .
. . . the bands that have already 'made it' - I wasn't even talking about them . . .
You're thinking of well-known artists.

There's no difference in my mind. A music artist is a music artist. Their financial status may change; their popularity status may change; but at the core their just the exact same people doing the exact same thing they were doing BEFORE they got to be big - writing, playing and recording music. The only difference is that now the world knows about them.

I'm referring to artists who are brand-new, and by themselves, guys no one has heard of, yet . . . trying to break into the world of music.
Folks who are NOT established.
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In that position, your songs really need to stand out; "pretty good," isn't good enough.

Believe me when I say this - the rules are no difference for established acts. "Pretty good" doesn't cut it for a major record label. If you don't sell albums, you're dumped.

The rules for signed vs. unsigned acts, for veterans vs. amateurs, is exactly the same: the music has to be great. We've seen, throughout pop music history, the same things happen to artists to who couldn't continue to produce top quality material - they disappear.

This is why we have the term "one hit wonder" in our lexicon

Believe me when I say this - the rules are no difference for established acts. "Pretty good" doesn't cut it for a major record label. If you don't sell albums, you're dumped.
I am sure that to be true, though I personally find most of what is sold by major labels to be rubbish.
But that gets back to my not listening to the radio any longer for music dont it.

I am sure that to be true, though I personally find most of what is sold by major labels to be rubbish.
But that gets back to my not listening to the radio any longer for music dont it.

Hey, I'm with you on that one. I don't listen to the radio much. I get most of my new music via YouTube, Pandora, friends suggestions, etc. I can't remember the last time I turned on the radio, heard a song I had never heard before and went, "That's great! I have to get that CD!"

I know that most of the new music I've been introduced to in the past year has been via (a) my band mates ("you gotta checkout this song...") and (b) YouTube. YouTube is great for discovering new stuff.

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"Pretty good" DOES cut it for a major record label.
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And "OK" is acceptable, too; and - great for 'filler tracks.'
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Also, unfortunately, "Not very good" makes it onto albums and the airwaves.
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And, we've all heard a lot of stuff out there that the 'artists' should be downright ashamed of . . . "D-" material.
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But, we know that - as long as the albums sell, - the bean-counters are completely unconcerned about how good the songs are. "Who cares? How much does it pay me?"
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Yep, a crappy no-talent song can become a hit.
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There is a LOT of material out there which is average, at best. That is the stuff that should/might make it as a 'filler track on an album.'
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But - if the fans decide it's a hit - so much the better.
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My original point is that the today's audience can pick and choose.
Just like in a strawberry patch, they'll pick the best ones first.

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Hiis are fine, if thats what your goal is. But, for, lets say, metal bands, album cuts are where it's at. Besides, album cuts are always the most jamming cuts aon any release any way....nuff said.

Alan, for you in particular this may pose a problem. You play such a wide variety of styles that you may need to put out more than one CD and define each as to what style or genre you want it to represent of your material. The samples you have put on your profile page are all excellent, I wouldn't classify any of it as "album songs." You hit the nail on the head when you said the audience may determine a "hit" song that is not your personal favorite. As far as marketing what you do, it might be wiser to come out with a jazz CD, then a rock CD, then whatever, but keeping the CD consistent with somewhat the same style might be in your favor commercially. If you have a CD with every song sounding completely different from each other might not have as big an impact in the marketplace. I'd say from what I've heard you have some "hits" for sure...