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#76780 by gbheil
Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:15 pm
As long as Brad Pitt does not get the lead. :twisted:

#76788 by CraigMaxim
Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:28 am
LOL

What's wrong with Brad Pitt?

He is a lioness tamer!

Or... it could be that she's tamed him.

You can't be too sure with her. LOL

She's wiley. 8)

#76821 by gbheil
Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:16 pm
One of my fave quotes from Mountain Men.

Why are you shooting at him, he's way out of range?
I know, but I just dont like him! :lol:

#76865 by philbymon
Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:52 pm
I think that was the original intent in the business model for Saturn, sans...unfortunately, GM owns it, &, together with the union, they've ruined it, from what I heard.

Yeah, regular raises for length of employed time & for advancement, profit sharing (in the literal sense), equal health care across the board - these would make your company an ideal one to work in, & a nightmare to invest in.

I don't see very many of these types of co's around. In fact, I've never seen one. It would make ppl work harder & take more care in their actions on the job, theoretically speaking...well, the more mature workers.

I was amazed at the fun & games played between workers & mgmt at GM, when I worked there for a cpl summers. What a buncha crap!

They actually have meetings for mgmt on how to get your workers to work harder by pitting them against each other - the "divide & conquor" principle. The unions have classes on how to flook up mgmt, too. Best time to hit your mgr with something is just before he goes home for the day, so he takes those negative emotions home with him. They're actually acting to hurt each other physically, psychologically, & emotionally on a regular basis! Keep stirring the pot until they're worn out, & you might get something better with the next guy!

Unbelieveable!

There have been studies that prove that whenever something new comes along in the workplace, productivity goes up. Even something as seemingly innocuous as a change of wall color, or different lighting, can improve productivity. But many co's constantly stir things up, pulling the employees this way, then that, to keep productivity at the highest levels. So why do they bother with these unhealthy ways of pushing ppl? Cuz they're easier & cheaper than changing the worker's environment regularly.

#76878 by ColorsFade
Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:36 pm
philbymon wrote:
Yeah, regular raises for length of employed time & for advancement, profit sharing (in the literal sense), equal health care across the board - these would make your company an ideal one to work in, & a nightmare to invest in.

I don't see very many of these types of co's around. In fact, I've never seen one.


Fog Creek Software
[url]
http://www.inc.com/magazine/20090401/ho ... r=fogcreek[/url]

#76901 by Sir Jamsalot
Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:17 pm
sanshouheil wrote:All is well and good in thinking / acting as community, untill, like in China the community decides who many childern you have and "healthcare" becomes forced abortion.


*exactly*

Government by its very nature can't be analagous to "community". In a community, you know your neighbors and their individual needs. When someone comes to you for help in a community, you know their history and have an idea of what "help" means FOR THAT INDIVUA'LS current problem.

Not so with a government - you have employees who likely don't know you, and are incapable of knowing what you need as a person - all they have is a check list of potential remedies voted on by statisticians - this results in general remedies applied to individuals in the form of handouts that might keep the person from complaining for a while, but can't address that person's particular life-situation and need.

You're not viewed as a person. You're viewed as an assembly line of needy humans from 9 am to -5pm, weekdays.

:roll:

#76921 by philbymon
Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:35 am
And just how does that differ from the way ins co's view us, Chris? Are you saying it's no better no worse? They run everything by stats. They view us as #'s & expenditures. They certainly don't know us personally, or treat us as individuals with individual needs. That's up to the doc (cough! cough!) who's too busy filling out their forms...

#76924 by CraigMaxim
Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:20 am
Phill has a point Chris.

And as to my use of the term "community", communities do not have to know one another personally or be literal neighbors.

Community of nations
Medical community
Scientific community

You can be a community if you share common interests, common heritage, common purpose.

The goal is to have a spirit of community.

Look at people as your neighbors, your family.

After all, THEY ARE your family. All living people on this planet are physically related in lineage. Scientist found a common ancestor decades ago, whom they named "Eve" because she is related through DNA to ALL LIVING HUMAN BEINGS.

#76959 by Sir Jamsalot
Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:08 pm
philbymon wrote:And just how does that differ from the way ins co's view us, Chris? Are you saying it's no better no worse? They run everything by stats. They view us as #'s & expenditures. They certainly don't know us personally, or treat us as individuals with individual needs. That's up to the doc (cough! cough!) who's too busy filling out their forms...


Co's are many, the governement is one. A company has an interest in getting your business, and they can't require you to purchase their goods since you can choose to go elsewhere - so they have to keep your interest in mind. The statistics companies use are to determine customer satisifaction.

Not all companies are "huge" and monopolistic. I get the feeling most people demonize companies and corporations based on *some* that act monopolistic. That's not the norm though.

The forms doctors fill out are of a different nature - record keeping. some are due to government regulations imposed to cover the doctor's back from getting sued. Many procedures are unneccesary, but required to prevent lawsuit.

chris
Last edited by Sir Jamsalot on Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#76961 by Sir Jamsalot
Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:12 pm
CraigMaxim wrote:Phill has a point Chris.

And as to my use of the term "community", communities do not have to know one another personally or be literal neighbors.

Community of nations
Medical community
Scientific community

You can be a community if you share common interests, common heritage, common purpose.

The goal is to have a spirit of community.

Look at people as your neighbors, your family.

After all, THEY ARE your family. All living people on this planet are physically related in lineage. Scientist found a common ancestor decades ago, whom they named "Eve" because she is related through DNA to ALL LIVING HUMAN BEINGS.


* had to re-edit :)*

The government can't operate as a community is my point, yet it is often referred using language as if it is. It's a legislative body that looks at the whole, makes a decision and places a burden on the many. for instance, if communites 1, 2 and 3 are obese, and community 4 is annorexic, statistically speaking, more are obese than skinny and the ensuing policy will legislate that community 4 goes on a diet. Crude example, but gets the point accross I hope.

I don't disagree on what community is, but the nature of "the government" is it is singular and makes "broad-sweeping" policies, that cannot be aimed at any special cases. There is no human wisdom employed in discerning individual's needs - it's an assembly line mentality of treating the individual.

regards.
Chris

#76978 by CraigMaxim
Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:13 pm
Chris,

We have city ordinances, state laws, and federal law. The idea of rule of law, is a powerful concept, particularly when it is self-rule, or rules society sets for itself. We find agreement (meaning compromise) on how we should GOVERN OURSELVES, and as a civilized community or nation, we AGREE to abide by those laws.

If someone disagrees with the law, then the solution is to find like minded individuals and work to educate others and CHANGE the law. The solution is NOT to hate lawmakers, or those who enforce these laws.

We GOVERN ourselves in a Democracy or Republic.

If you GOVERN, you ARE the government. From little league referees and school board officials, to city legislators and federal lawmakers, we are ALL part of government, or SHOULD BE.

Population is TOO VAST and growing, to be islands any longer. The world's population is TOO VAST and growing, to be an isolated nation any longer.

WE MUST work together, for the common good of ALL, or we shall destroy ourselves.

My two step-sons are going through the juvenile process, after getting into some trouble. I knew that they would be looked at as a number, because juvenile laws and punishments have become extreme, and there are huge numbers of our youth in the juvenile system. The solution was not to sit at home or just b*tch through the internet. The solution personally, was to MAKE those in authority over them, KNOW WHO THEY ARE, and also to KNOW WHO WE ARE, as parents. They are not numbers now, not after voluminous phone calls and meetings, with those in direct authority over them, and also those who are bosses over the authority figures, all the way up to the Governor's office. We have gotten things moving faster, gotten one of them moved to a better juvenile facility (though we were told this was almost impossible) and made MANY strides in insuring they were not lost in the system and overlooked.

It's called parenting.

I often go to visit them with my wife. When she can't visit, I go to see them alone. ( It's a 4 hour round trip) Their father rarely visits his "favorite" and the other, he has not visited at all.

When I go to these facilities, I am sometimes the ONLY person there for a visit, though there are over a hundred kids in just one facility. I am told by officials there, that some kids there have not had a visit in 6 months, some have not been visited even once, in 9 months.

The problem is not the government Chris.

The problem is WE THE PEOPLE!

We are too lazy to be WE THE PEOPLE. We have tried to revise this to ME THE PERSON!

We are social animals, and psychologists have well documented the ill effects we suffer when we isolate ourselves.

Our lives will deteriorate as our communities deteriorate. And our communities deteriorate in direct proportion to the degree we refuse to participate in them.

btw...

Aside from being there for my wife's sons, when I realized how bad the juvenile justice system is, and how poorly it functions, how excessively it punishes CHILDREN, I decided to try and help OTHERS, as I was helping my own family.

I created a website to begin this work called:

P.A.W.S.
Parents Against Wrongful Sentencing

http://www.pawsgroup.info

Through this organization, I have made high level contacts in the Governor's office, gotten my website listed with heavy hitting and heavily financed juvenile advocacy groups in my state, and have been asked to consider testifying before congress, when the larger groups are bringing new legislation for consideration, to congressional hearings.

I practice what I preach.

Think something is wrong?

Sacrifice your time and talents to change it.

#76980 by philbymon
Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:23 pm
Well, if co's hafta compete against the gov't. as well as other co's, they just MIGHT become more consumer-oriented. I think that's yet another argument FOR universal health care, as they stand to lose customers if they continue the way they've been for the last 30 + yrs...

#76981 by CraigMaxim
Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:33 pm
btw...

If any of you have had experiences with the Juvenile Justice System or just want to help... We could use volunteers, guest editorialists or writers, to author articles related to these issues, etc...

You can find our website here:

P.A.W.S.
Parents Against Wrongful Sentencing

http://www.pawsgroup.info

Don't underestimate your own talents, or your own ability to make a difference. Few things feel better than changing someone's life for the better, and maybe even ultimately, changing the system itself.

I can direct you to some websites for a crash course in understanding the issues and problems, and getting educated on them.

I am a big football fan, but honestly, I might get to watch the Superbowl these days, and that's about it. Watching a game is fun. Improving a child's life is FAR MORE IMPORTANT and rewarding. No one has to miss the season, but why not sacrifice one game, here or there, to make your mark on this world, and make a difference in a child's life, and in their family?

Strong families strengthen our society, and ensure it's preservation.

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