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We use a Mackie 1604 rackmounted. It goes to a drive rack like Haley and then to a Yam power amp for the tops and a QSC amp to the bottoms. We use Yam speakers 1-18 subs, 2-15 tops. I kinda wish we had 2-18 bottoms and 1-15 tops. Weve got another QSC amp that feeds our monitors Peavey 1-15 BW. We have a full complement of effects.
Its a pretty complete system, I would imagine to rebuild it from the ground up would be in the 15-20,000 dollar range.
I guess you need to ask yourself, How many gigs am I going to do? If you are not going to do a lot, and just want to get out and kick out the jams every now and then, but a smaller practice pa and then if you get a gig rent a system and let someone come in set up and run it for you. When I took a hiatus for a number of years I did this. Sure it cost out of pocket, but for a handful of gigs its more cost effective and you can get a lot more bang for your buck.
PAs get expensive real fast. Ive seen guys use very moderate systems and sound really good, Ive seen guys use really expensive systems and sound terrible.
I guess it comes down to how committed you are to playing out.
Its a pretty complete system, I would imagine to rebuild it from the ground up would be in the 15-20,000 dollar range.
I guess you need to ask yourself, How many gigs am I going to do? If you are not going to do a lot, and just want to get out and kick out the jams every now and then, but a smaller practice pa and then if you get a gig rent a system and let someone come in set up and run it for you. When I took a hiatus for a number of years I did this. Sure it cost out of pocket, but for a handful of gigs its more cost effective and you can get a lot more bang for your buck.
PAs get expensive real fast. Ive seen guys use very moderate systems and sound really good, Ive seen guys use really expensive systems and sound terrible.
I guess it comes down to how committed you are to playing out.
"A winks as good as nod to a blind man"
I have a few different size PA's and I combine them and do some local festivals. One of them always try to cheap me down, and I was charging them only $300 for an 8 hour festival. Then, one year I told them in advance that I was going up to $350. They called me back and told me that another local guy had agreed to do it for FREE as his family gospel group was going to be in the show. He had JBL cabs and a Yamaha board and some nice power amps and stuff, but didn't know how to use them. One band of some younger guys, who knew me came up to me and asked if I would run sound for them if the guy with the PA would let me. I agreed and the guy let me do it. After they finished I set the sound back like he had had it. Since then, they have had me run the sound every year and I'm up to $400 a day now. 
It ain't what ya got, but how ya use it!
It ain't what ya got, but how ya use it!
Good for you Rat sometimes you just have to wait those cheap bastids out. I have the Allen & Heathmixwiz 16 2 rackmounted in a roadrunner case. It has 2 onboard effects engines and I have 1 Midiverb 4 outboard effect processor with 2 Uri Compressors that I use for vocals, guitar and snare and I have a Beringer multi-comp that I use for the rest of the drums and bass guitar thats 8 channels of compression. With the Carvin PM1000 in ear monitor system all that is powered thru a PL Plus II Power condioner and is all rack mounted in that one case. That goes thru a 100' snake to the (stage rack) the other wheeled 16 space rack that has (top to bottom)
PL Plus II power conditioner, 8821 Sonic Maximizer, DBX Driverack P.A., PLX 3602 for the tops, 2 QSC 1450's for subs, and 2 Yamaha 1500's for subs those go thru top to bottom. 2 Peavey SP 2G's and 2 JBL MRX 500's for tops and 2 JBL MPro 18's and 2 Yorkville 18's thats a total of 4 tops and 4 bottoms all with there seperate power and ran in stereo. That rack is powered by a custom built power distribution unit with large heavy duty connectors and 10 gauge 25' power cables 3 20amp circuts. At the gig last Friday it was a no smoking venue which is fine with me because I don't smoke but the rest of my family does. My oldest son smokes and there are windows all down the one side of the stage. My son went out to smoke and came in and said dad ya'll are shaking those windows so bad it looks like they are going to break and I just said YEAH BABY!! gotta love all that bottom end it will part your hair baby!:lol:
PL Plus II power conditioner, 8821 Sonic Maximizer, DBX Driverack P.A., PLX 3602 for the tops, 2 QSC 1450's for subs, and 2 Yamaha 1500's for subs those go thru top to bottom. 2 Peavey SP 2G's and 2 JBL MRX 500's for tops and 2 JBL MPro 18's and 2 Yorkville 18's thats a total of 4 tops and 4 bottoms all with there seperate power and ran in stereo. That rack is powered by a custom built power distribution unit with large heavy duty connectors and 10 gauge 25' power cables 3 20amp circuts. At the gig last Friday it was a no smoking venue which is fine with me because I don't smoke but the rest of my family does. My oldest son smokes and there are windows all down the one side of the stage. My son went out to smoke and came in and said dad ya'll are shaking those windows so bad it looks like they are going to break and I just said YEAH BABY!! gotta love all that bottom end it will part your hair baby!:lol:
Thats a killer setup Haley, Im sure it romps.
Back to this thread of what to get.
I thought about this some more. A powered mixer might not be bad to start with. I bought my son a little Behringer 10 channel 500 watt pa head. Its actually pretty loud, the only draw back is there is no mic gain comtrol like a bigger unit, they are just preset.
But it might be a good starting block for a PA. GC had these for $350 a few monthes ago. They make some wedge type speakers that could double as either mains or monitors when you expand. I bought some peaveys for $250 apiece brand new. We had some of the old 1542 and still have them but the crossovers where screwed up and when I looked at replacing them, the replacement crossover was $129.
Anyway back to the little Beringer head and 2 Peavey monitors, we are up to $850, 4 mic stands $30, thats another $120, 4 cords @ $20 another $80, then mics, I like SM 58s for vocals or SM 57s for guitar and instruments, 4 SM 58s @ $100, thats another $400.
So a setup like this would be around $1500, It would be enough to practice with, which is what most folks will do most of the time anyway, it will be portable, and could get by for a small gig, just place the speakers back and to the side of you and everyone should be able to hear the vocals enough to do a show.
On the flip side Haleys setup he described would be in the $20,000 range or higher.
Once again PAs get very expensive. On a side note Im working on a local festival that wants to hire my band as entertainment. They have been paying the headliner $1000 the last couple of years. Ive been talking to the guy about this and he let it out that they have been paying a local sound company $1000 for the PA system. I hope to seal a deal with them to provide entertainment and PA. So if you learn to work it right a PA can make as much money as a band. This past winter we went into a local teeny bopper club and hired our PA out for $250 a night for 2 weekends in a row. We had to run it but we left it there and made $1000 over the 4 nights, whereas we would have been sitting at home. The downside was we had 3 horrible young bands play each night and had to listen to all that, plus switch them out.
Back to this thread of what to get.
I thought about this some more. A powered mixer might not be bad to start with. I bought my son a little Behringer 10 channel 500 watt pa head. Its actually pretty loud, the only draw back is there is no mic gain comtrol like a bigger unit, they are just preset.
But it might be a good starting block for a PA. GC had these for $350 a few monthes ago. They make some wedge type speakers that could double as either mains or monitors when you expand. I bought some peaveys for $250 apiece brand new. We had some of the old 1542 and still have them but the crossovers where screwed up and when I looked at replacing them, the replacement crossover was $129.
Anyway back to the little Beringer head and 2 Peavey monitors, we are up to $850, 4 mic stands $30, thats another $120, 4 cords @ $20 another $80, then mics, I like SM 58s for vocals or SM 57s for guitar and instruments, 4 SM 58s @ $100, thats another $400.
So a setup like this would be around $1500, It would be enough to practice with, which is what most folks will do most of the time anyway, it will be portable, and could get by for a small gig, just place the speakers back and to the side of you and everyone should be able to hear the vocals enough to do a show.
On the flip side Haleys setup he described would be in the $20,000 range or higher.
Once again PAs get very expensive. On a side note Im working on a local festival that wants to hire my band as entertainment. They have been paying the headliner $1000 the last couple of years. Ive been talking to the guy about this and he let it out that they have been paying a local sound company $1000 for the PA system. I hope to seal a deal with them to provide entertainment and PA. So if you learn to work it right a PA can make as much money as a band. This past winter we went into a local teeny bopper club and hired our PA out for $250 a night for 2 weekends in a row. We had to run it but we left it there and made $1000 over the 4 nights, whereas we would have been sitting at home. The downside was we had 3 horrible young bands play each night and had to listen to all that, plus switch them out.
"A winks as good as nod to a blind man"
lol I can relate..
I ran my little Yamaha EMX-300 with 2 shitty little wedges and 2 mains that were new when dinosaurs roamed the earth for a guy I know that owns the venue in question.
We spent some time messing with it, since that board is new to me and he wanted to use a Furman PL-8C as well. (glad he knew what was up)
AND then a mini sound check.. (ugghhh)
It was precisely THEN that I knew it was to be a long night and I should switch from my -80bd inserts to full on lawnmower/shooter muffs.
The best was when someone asked me why I was wearing those "huge orange things" on my head. It was during a part where it kind of sounded like 3 cats yeowling, so I just nodded my head and said "yeah". lol Next thing you know, I was all by myself again.
I ran my little Yamaha EMX-300 with 2 shitty little wedges and 2 mains that were new when dinosaurs roamed the earth for a guy I know that owns the venue in question.
We spent some time messing with it, since that board is new to me and he wanted to use a Furman PL-8C as well. (glad he knew what was up)
AND then a mini sound check.. (ugghhh)
It was precisely THEN that I knew it was to be a long night and I should switch from my -80bd inserts to full on lawnmower/shooter muffs.
The best was when someone asked me why I was wearing those "huge orange things" on my head. It was during a part where it kind of sounded like 3 cats yeowling, so I just nodded my head and said "yeah". lol Next thing you know, I was all by myself again.
Yeah, I got a gig setting up and running my PA for a "Rave" party in Ozark, Arkansas. Actually, though they called it a "Rave" it was really just techno music all night with some of the "badder" kids going outside for a drink and a toke occasionally. Arrgghhhh!!! Same BPMs all night long.
Ratsass, we used to rent our gear to a rave club 15 yrs ago. We had that old big peavey stuff back then. We would haul the speakers in on friday and pick them up on monday, they gave us $400 a weekend. I dotn even know what amps they pushed em with. Me and our drummer went down one weekend and hung out for a couple of hours. The beats in that stuff is just constant Im guessing 140-150 or so. It was a whole different theing than what we were used to.
Haley renting your gear might not be so bad. In my area guys get anywhere from 150 to 500 a night for sound systems. Your in a big population area, you might run an ad or two on craigs list in your area and see what happens.
Haley renting your gear might not be so bad. In my area guys get anywhere from 150 to 500 a night for sound systems. Your in a big population area, you might run an ad or two on craigs list in your area and see what happens.
"A winks as good as nod to a blind man"
I'm kind of surprised how cheap you guys are geeting sound systems & an engineer for in you areas. Myself along with a buddy have 5 PA's between us. The largest being 50k watt JBL, Crown, Soundcraft, etc., which goes for about 3k per night with crew. The next size down is a 2 man operation using 4 double 18's & 4 JBL 2x12x2x1 tops which is around $1200. per night, all local. We stay very busy.
I like the DBX drive racks but we have one that is flaky. There's nothing like it to shut you down so I carry a spare crossover with that system.
As far as what kind of PA someone should get, that's almost a loaded question. Of course it depends on your requirements and if you're planning on renting services when you are not using the system. Think before you buy, there are lots of things to consider. Most artists I work with have requirements (riders) that specify brands and so on, not so much what they will accept but more what they won't accept.
When looking at a system of any subsatnce you must consider power, especially when running lights as I do also. On our big system the power distrobution unit alone cost upwards of $15k. The smaller sysems we simply piggy back into the breaker panel (before their breakers) and run our own breaker panel.
Another thing to consider is if are you going to sacrafice price up front for repair bills down the line. I use to have rack full of peavy, AB amps powering some horn loaded EV's and Altec tops. It sounded great for years but I was constantly replacing drivers. When I finaly had enough I purchased JBL SR series cabs for a price I knew I was crazy for paying, and a bunch of Carver 2.0 amps. I financed the heck out of it just hoping I would some day pay it off. It did eventialy pay off again & again. I ended up smoking one of my Carver amps at an outdoor show at Lower Greenville in Dallas and cussed those damn Carvers untill I thought about it and realized that they were at the time almost 18 years old. I moved the remaining Carvers to a monitor rig and bought Crowns. I'm still running the same JBL cabs. I've replaced 1 - 2" horn and 1 - 12". I have saved a lot of money down the line by speding a little more up front.
Hope this helps.
I like the DBX drive racks but we have one that is flaky. There's nothing like it to shut you down so I carry a spare crossover with that system.
As far as what kind of PA someone should get, that's almost a loaded question. Of course it depends on your requirements and if you're planning on renting services when you are not using the system. Think before you buy, there are lots of things to consider. Most artists I work with have requirements (riders) that specify brands and so on, not so much what they will accept but more what they won't accept.
When looking at a system of any subsatnce you must consider power, especially when running lights as I do also. On our big system the power distrobution unit alone cost upwards of $15k. The smaller sysems we simply piggy back into the breaker panel (before their breakers) and run our own breaker panel.
Another thing to consider is if are you going to sacrafice price up front for repair bills down the line. I use to have rack full of peavy, AB amps powering some horn loaded EV's and Altec tops. It sounded great for years but I was constantly replacing drivers. When I finaly had enough I purchased JBL SR series cabs for a price I knew I was crazy for paying, and a bunch of Carver 2.0 amps. I financed the heck out of it just hoping I would some day pay it off. It did eventialy pay off again & again. I ended up smoking one of my Carver amps at an outdoor show at Lower Greenville in Dallas and cussed those damn Carvers untill I thought about it and realized that they were at the time almost 18 years old. I moved the remaining Carvers to a monitor rig and bought Crowns. I'm still running the same JBL cabs. I've replaced 1 - 2" horn and 1 - 12". I have saved a lot of money down the line by speding a little more up front.
Hope this helps.
Hey Nature Boy, I completly agree with your think before you buy. Some of us have to actually live in the real world where we have to actually learn how to play an instument and master it over decades, deal with finding the right musicians to put together some sort of a band that the collective can deal with. Then we have to go out and actually sell and schedule the gigs and then we have to try to keep all this going for a while. While simultaniously putting together the best p.a. and sound possible. If you want cudos for bragging about your p.a. systems you have us all beat bro. But I challenge you to get off your dirt bike and post some music. Put your money where your mouth is. Certainly if you have all those p.a.'s you are bound to be able to afford a decent recording of your band. Or maybe you would be better off on a sound forum with people that are like minded.
J-HALEY wrote:Hey Nature Boy, I completly agree with your think before you buy. Some of us have to actually live in the real world where we have to actually learn how to play an instument and master it over decades, deal with finding the right musicians to put together some sort of a band that the collective can deal with. Then we have to go out and actually sell and schedule the gigs and then we have to try to keep all this going for a while. While simultaniously putting together the best p.a. and sound possible. If you want cudos for bragging about your p.a. systems you have us all beat bro. But I challenge you to get off your dirt bike and post some music. Put your money where your mouth is. Certainly if you have all those p.a.'s you are bound to be able to afford a decent recording of your band. Or maybe you would be better off on a sound forum with people that are like minded.
I don't know if I should take your comments as a compliment, challenge, or insult. I took a break from performing music the last couple of years and spent my time riding motocross with my daughter. I was christened with the name “Nature boy” at an after the gig pool party a few years ago and “Nature Boy” is printed on the front number-plate of my bike, which is why I used that picture. I enjoy racing motocross probably as much as I do playing music.
I responded to a topic asking for advice on a PA. I thought I might be able to help by sharing my experience. I have been down this road before.
Here’s what I have to offer. I spent the last 15 years playing around Texas in a country band that played about 75% original music. With the exception of our 1st drummer who moved a year after we started, we managed to maintain the same group members the entire time. As I’m sure you know, when you spend that much time with band members it is either a love or hate relationship. We never had an argument in the 15 years we played together and I love these guys like my brothers. That said I would never consider teaming up, even with them, to purchase equipment. Everything we used I bought myself and there was never any conflict. I also took a bigger pay home from the gigs as a result.
Here’s where I’m at now. Though my country band has not officially disbanded, we as a band are not able to dedicate the time it takes to get back to where we once were. That being the case, my personal schedule does allow it now. I have put together a new band with new guys and we are almost ready to hit it. It’s a 180 turn around from my previous band and I’m looking forward to going to work again. We haven’t come up with a name yet but we have recorded some of the original music we will be playing. Here’s a link to a myspace I just created just for you to be the judge. http://www.myspace.com/edensrealm
I hope you like it but I am open for critique. I’ll upload some songs off my country bands CD when I have a chance. Thanks for the reply.
btw, I've been playing, and building my equipment arsenal for almost 30 years and I still don't have it mastered. I've always worked a real job to pay for it too.
Jeff
Last edited by Nature_Boy on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My apologies, Jeff. reread your original post it kind of sounded to me a little like a rich kid bragging. But last night I was PWI (posting while intoxicated) something I don't do very often. And I guess I was feeling kind of negative 
. I tried to listen to your music on your myspace but I am at work now and I have to get administrative permission to update flash player. I will listen tomorrow. Have you noticed how many Jeffs there are running around in this country (my name is Jeff also) I think when our parents came home from the war and started making babies Jeff was the most popular name for boys in the 50's LOL. Good luck and we need all the advise on here we can get so keep it coming and let us know how your band does. I am in the same boat. I have been leading a band for the past 5 years been playing professionally for 30. In the band I am leading our keyboard player died. I had played with him for 7 years (he had brain cancer) then the rythm guitar player started double duty he took up and started playing the keyboards also (very talented) and then he left. Now the bass player is leaving at the end of July all of this in the past 8 months. I just don't feel like leading anymore so I am in the process of winding the band down. We still have 7 gigs on the books after we play those thats it. Now I am trying to find another band that I can join and if needed I will help support the project without having to do everything like I am doing now.
. I tried to listen to your music on your myspace but I am at work now and I have to get administrative permission to update flash player. I will listen tomorrow. Have you noticed how many Jeffs there are running around in this country (my name is Jeff also) I think when our parents came home from the war and started making babies Jeff was the most popular name for boys in the 50's LOL. Good luck and we need all the advise on here we can get so keep it coming and let us know how your band does. I am in the same boat. I have been leading a band for the past 5 years been playing professionally for 30. In the band I am leading our keyboard player died. I had played with him for 7 years (he had brain cancer) then the rythm guitar player started double duty he took up and started playing the keyboards also (very talented) and then he left. Now the bass player is leaving at the end of July all of this in the past 8 months. I just don't feel like leading anymore so I am in the process of winding the band down. We still have 7 gigs on the books after we play those thats it. Now I am trying to find another band that I can join and if needed I will help support the project without having to do everything like I am doing now.Nature Boy it sounds like you and I have traveled on somewhat similiar paths in life. I raced MX for about 5 yrs all over with my son. Below is a picture of me with Rick Johnson, this was at Lake Whitney in Feb of 07. I won the 40+Novice class HOH FMF Winter Series and was 2nd in the 30+, my son won the 250C and I think wound up 3rd in the 125C.
Like Haley a lot of people come on here with big perceptions on music.
This post was from someone wanting a simple pa system to get up and running with cause one member was leaving who had the system. Most of us, me included have accumulated PA equipment over a number of years. We have pieces in the one Im involved in that are 20 yrs old or older. The old Peavey 1542s in my garage are probably 30 yrs old truth be known.
Im impressed with festival level systems as much as anyone, but put this thread in perspective. The poster wants a low cost simple setup to build on, talking about 50K systems has nothing to do with the thread.
Im my area, Im just outside of Memphis. Club PA sytems with engineer rent for $250 a night, we have run into a couple of all day festivals that will pay around $1000 a day. The rooms in town that have system generally pay an engineer $50-100 a night to run them. Im sure the bigger deals pay a lot more, but thats all I see from where I sit. I think Haley and I see sort of the same types of pay levels.
Like Haley a lot of people come on here with big perceptions on music.
This post was from someone wanting a simple pa system to get up and running with cause one member was leaving who had the system. Most of us, me included have accumulated PA equipment over a number of years. We have pieces in the one Im involved in that are 20 yrs old or older. The old Peavey 1542s in my garage are probably 30 yrs old truth be known.
Im impressed with festival level systems as much as anyone, but put this thread in perspective. The poster wants a low cost simple setup to build on, talking about 50K systems has nothing to do with the thread.
Im my area, Im just outside of Memphis. Club PA sytems with engineer rent for $250 a night, we have run into a couple of all day festivals that will pay around $1000 a day. The rooms in town that have system generally pay an engineer $50-100 a night to run them. Im sure the bigger deals pay a lot more, but thats all I see from where I sit. I think Haley and I see sort of the same types of pay levels.
"A winks as good as nod to a blind man"
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