General Music Chat

I appreciate your point RG.
In my book (mostly big pictures and little words) this is misrepresentation.
And that my friend, in my simple little world is a lie.
If you bought that Ferrari and as you were driving off the showroom floor the wrapper (enhancement) blew off, and what you really had was a Pinto.
I think you would call the dealer, a lier.

Not sure if I would call it a lie. More like “computer enhancement” in the music production.

When do the enhancements cross the line? How many computer enhancements can you add before you've completely misrepresented things?

I am not sure there's any clear answer; probably up to each individual artist. I know Audioslave was very strict and wanted to only put the sounds on the record that the band could replicate live. On the other hand you've got acts that frequently use sound effects, voice synthesizers (even for small, one-off parts) etc. Sometimes that extra stuff is pretty cool; sometimes, however, it's used to obscure and misrepresent the artist.

There's a point when the effects are no longer enhancing, but instead, covering up.

When do the enhancements cross the line?

I think that depends on the Genre, "Ozzy does Kraftwerk"

How many computer enhancements can you add before you've completely misrepresented things?

Just recording a song is a misrepresentation, thats why there is sooooo many bad recordings.

I am not sure there's any clear answer; probably up to each individual artist. I know Audioslave was very strict and wanted to only put the sounds on the record that the band could replicate live. On the other hand you've got acts that frequently use sound effects, voice synthesizers (even for small, one-off parts) etc. Sometimes that extra stuff is pretty cool; sometimes, however, it's used to obscure and misrepresent the artist.

How true

There's a point when the effects are no longer enhancing, but instead, covering up.

I think that when a band AND the fans know this, its cool most of the time.

If you bought that Ferrari and as you were driving off the showroom floor the wrapper (enhancement) blew off, and what you really had was a Pinto.
I think you would call the dealer, a lier.[

A Pinto with a V12! now that I wanna see, "just kiddin"

I see your point

As an artist, you are creating sounds you hope people will enjoy. Creating soundwaves is the point. who cares if they are produced live or in a software-solution?

The only time "mistakes" become a problem are when the mistake becomes the memorable part of an album that you can't reproduce in a live situation - in that case, you have a one-off song that will forever live in infamy on an album, but never reproduced to people's expection live. But honestly, how often does that happen?

If you just want to make albums/cd's and a "mistake" happens that makes the track better, what does it matter? If on the other hand, your goal is to reproduce the music for live performance, I still ask, who cares if you can't replicate the mistake live and on stage.

If your ENTIRE sound is out of a box that you can't reproduce on stage, but your intention is to GO ON stage, then wtf were you doing playing with a box that doesn't work on stage in the first place? Anyone with any sense would at least see if the sound is reproduceable or not.

I wouldn't be so concerned with it. Most things are reproduceable or at least good copies that will pass as a legitimate sound, so I think the problem really isn't such a large problem.

my 2 cents.

There are so many good points on here that it's hard to pick and choose.

What about the fact that if you do add stuff you cannot do live but hope that someone who comes in will be able to fill that void? I'm largely thinking of not going overboard but perhaps adding certain things to my stuff anyway.

Tough call isn't it.

The Police recorded a whole Album without a Keyboard but there he was on stage. Genesis too record with all the parts but there are only 3 of them in all reality.

There are countless bands out there, some of them very famous who have done the same so is it cheating or is it that they can get away with it because they can afford to bring people into the parts that they need to fill?

In essence. Does it matter or not at least in this case. (Not mistake related).

Cheers folks. Great replies, I've learned a great deal.

Thank you.

Chippy.

Now, Milli Vanilli...THAT was a lie.

Thank gawd

Not sure if I would call it a lie. More like “computer enhancement” in the music production.

When do the enhancements cross the line? How many computer enhancements can you add before you've completely misrepresented things?

I am not sure there's any clear answer; probably up to each individual artist. I know Audioslave was very strict and wanted to only put the sounds on the record that the band could replicate live. On the other hand you've got acts that frequently use sound effects, voice synthesizers (even for small, one-off parts) etc. Sometimes that extra stuff is pretty cool; sometimes, however, it's used to obscure and misrepresent the artist.

There's a point when the effects are no longer enhancing, but instead, covering up.

Yeah but computer enhancements are not mistakes. They are part of a necessary evil. When making a recording you can use any instrument in the world. If you imagine a particular sound or instrument being played, it is quite an asset to be able to push a button to make it so. I can't afford to have Ravi Shankar to fly over to the states to play on one of my recordings. But if my engineer hits the right button, the idea is there...All for a fraction of the cost. Now, presenting something like that on stage requires live musicians and some subbing of instruments and there is nothing wrong with that.

I just made a recording that was originally arranged with a piano accompaniment. The piano was too heavy sounding. So it was replaced with a harp. If I had to pay for a harpist to come in and do the recording, I would have had to given up on the project. The piano just was not working but something piano ( ish ) was needed. Now, if I were to perform this on stage, I do have access to a harpist and can indeed hire her. Oh snap!!! An electric accoustic guitar would also work Isn't music a wonderful thing?

Also the recording calls for a bass flute and alto flute. The engineer was able to lower my recording of a soprano flut down an octave. Voila bass and alto flutes were born. However, when it is performed, I do want a real bass flute and alto flute. Believe it or not, some people doubt their existance.

Thanks Black. (Maria?)
I think you pretty much summed up. Anything can be made of anything so don't be too frightened of playing around with something even if you think it may be out of your bounds?

Networking is the key here. Get to know as many people as you can and from all walks, just in case.

Brilliant story Black, Now who do I know?

Thanks Black. (Maria?)
I think you pretty much summed up. Anything can be made of anything so don't be too frightened of playing around with something even if you think it may be out of your bounds?

Networking is the key here. Get to know as many people as you can and from all walks, just in case.

Brilliant story Black, Now who do I know?

It's Mary

Oops
Sorry.

Thanks Black. (Maria?)
I think you pretty much summed up. Anything can be made of anything so don't be too frightened of playing around with something even if you think it may be out of your bounds?

Networking is the key here. Get to know as many people as you can and from all walks, just in case.

Brilliant story Black, Now who do I know?

It's Mary

What i refer to is what I like to call the "I liked it factor".

You play something different on the recording and people like it.

Now suppose that you play that tune, but leave out that little riff.

YOU WILL hear about it. Maybe not the 1st time, but it will surface and show it's ugly head.

led zepplin playing stairway and forgets that one little riff = start over again?

oof. pain. wince. lol

What i refer to is what I like to call the "I liked it factor".

You play something different on the recording and people like it.

Now suppose that you play that tune, but leave out that little riff.

YOU WILL hear about it. Maybe not the 1st time, but it will surface and show it's ugly head.

led zepplin playing stairway and forgets that one little riff = start over again?

oof. pain. wince. lol

No time to wince, you have a song to be played...You gotta act like you meant for that to happen AND keep going. A pro should be able to come through that unscathed. We all have bad days on stage and a mistake can and will happen. You have to be able to get through the mistakes and let go of them.

In the world of jazz, the improvised solos are not expected to sound the same and they shouldn't. However there are some things like the Stairway to Heaven riff that should not be messed up. That riff has been used in improvised jazz solos and even when that happens that lick needs to be accurate.But the STH lick is not used every time...it begins to get old. However, in comparison to the Stairway anaology, you wouldn't go to hear Beethoven's Ninth symphony and expect to hear Amazing Grace instead of Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee, but that is not a mistake that is blatant deception.

But if a mistake occurs...not a screw up..I mean a true unadulterated mistake, forget about it. Keep going like it never happened.

Oops
Sorry.

Thanks Black. (Maria?)
I think you pretty much summed up. Anything can be made of anything so don't be too frightened of playing around with something even if you think it may be out of your bounds?

Networking is the key here. Get to know as many people as you can and from all walks, just in case.

Brilliant story Black, Now who do I know?

It's Mary

It's quite alright, Chippy.

It's hard to believe this simple thread has run four pages. I suppose it just demonstrates how different artist are and how in many apects we are the same.

The next time I play LEAD FLUTE, I'll remember that.

>??!??!?!?!

WTF!

Give new insights, not things known since we were eating brontoburgers.