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#68659 by gbheil
Thu May 28, 2009 2:25 am
With all the commentary I have gotten I went back and compared the two tracks again taking into account the critique.

I am hearing the difference now much more than before.
The distortion Ray is using is different on the second track.
And the tuning? I'd be lying if I said "oh yea I hear that G out of tune"
But what I dont hear is that harmonic mesh the two guitars should be getting.

Thanks again!

This is what is great about this site! And at risk of sounding like an f'in getto McDonalds commercial.

I'm lovin it!

#68665 by philbymon
Thu May 28, 2009 3:24 am
Okay, I have 2 windows open, & I'm flashing back & forth between them, listening to it section by section, & I gotta tell ya, sans, I don't like either arrangement.

The first guitar I hear, on a ballad like this, should be an acoustic. Sorry, but it's begging for it. You don't use one on either mix. Shame on you (LOL)! This song has that casual kind of feel to it, like you are talking to a good friend. The acoustic brings that out much better than an electric, imho.

Now, once you have established that more conversational tone with the acoustic, you can ease in the electric leads for effect & get a better overall feel on it. I think this would enhance the importance of your message, musically, while keeping to that personal touch.

You could also ease in some strings as mentioned above, or maybe even a nice organ kinda thing, in the background. Keep that running throughout the rest of the song, even as you drop back in your overall volume, using those dynamics to your advantage.

If you don't have keys, then perhaps a slight touch of chorus on the acoustic coming in at the 1st chorus of the song would work well, too. Again, keep it on through to the end, as you would with the keys. (Do be careful with the depth of the effect, & don't overdo it! Try to get the timing of the flangy effect to last an entire measure, if you can.)

I also agree on the drums. This is not a rock song, & shouldn't be approached like it was. A much lighter touch on the skins is called for, here, & back off on the use of the cymbals, as well. It's coming off as way too jingly-jangly & bangy-clangy for me, & it detracts from the feel & the message, both. There shouldn't be any 8th notes struck on the drums in this piece anywhere in the verse - no, not even on the high hat. Use a click track, if you can. Keep it slow, & it will have a much stronger effect - & yeah, slower is harder to do. Keep it very basic, with accents on counts 1 & 3. (I honestly think you could drop the drums out of the mix completely on the verses, & only have them enter the mix on the chorus, for even stronger dynamics.) Keep the verses as stripped down as you can, & build up the choruses.

The 2nd guitar part (that's you, right?) should be playing more soulful, sustained notes, with an occasional noodle, instead of chunky clunky chords. The rhythms that you're playing aren't bad, & don't detract from the song (other than make it more jingly-jangly), but a few single notes that wail in the back, & swell & fade on the choruses, & perhaps even pan from side to side, would be oh so nice in this, sans! Keep it very simple. Then, at the end, as you're repeating that chorus, get a little more active until you drop everything at the very end, where you once again hold that endless sustaining note. You could even use some echo on it, if you played some nice long-sustained notes, & give this song some real depth, & a slightly haunting feel. (Don't let the echo go faster than a quarter note. Keep that semi-slow, ponderous feel to it, to enhance & to balance with the simple strum of the acoustic, without competing with it for attention.) Think David Gilmour in your approach, here.

I think your use of dynamics is improving, but the use of effects on both guitars is not working on the newer one. I like what you're reaching for on the vocals, too, but you really need work in that area. The newer harmonies are getting closer to what you need on this.

This could almost be a "power-rock god-driven ballad," man. I'd keep working on it occasionally to sharpen it up, but don't work so hard that you burn out on the song, cuz it's a good tune.

Oh yeah, & keep in mind that these are only my opinions, & should be treated as such, Do it the way it feels good to ya (but DO try it like I described, at least once! LOL).
Last edited by philbymon on Thu May 28, 2009 5:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

#68671 by Sir Jamsalot
Thu May 28, 2009 3:58 am
sanshouheil wrote:With all the commentary I have gotten I went back and compared the two tracks again taking into account the critique.

I am hearing the difference now much more than before.
The distortion Ray is using is different on the second track.
And the tuning? I'd be lying if I said "oh yea I hear that G out of tune"
But what I dont hear is that harmonic mesh the two guitars should be getting.

Thanks again!

This is what is great about this site! And at risk of sounding like an f'in getto McDonalds commercial.

I'm lovin it!


Needs more cowbell.
:)

I agree with Philby. Accoustic would really give the song more depth and contrast well with a lead guitar as he says. i.e., ditto.

#68720 by gbheil
Thu May 28, 2009 1:37 pm
Humm, food for thought.
I am going to print this out and share it with the band.
Were talking a complete rework here.
We did work on an unplugged version of this one for a short time then said aw screw it we're a rock band. This sounds like a doable compramise Phil.

Thanks for all your time guys!

#68759 by RhythmMan
Thu May 28, 2009 5:04 pm
I was talking about the main rhythm guitar; thought it'd sound better if it was clean, and not half-distorted.
The other comments about the tuning being off are correct, btw.

#68785 by gbheil
Thu May 28, 2009 8:00 pm
Thank you sir! This has been very helpfull.
Makes it a lot easier to listen to your own stuff objectivly.

#68819 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Fri May 29, 2009 1:24 am
I SEE, a lot of people trying to honestly help you because you've won their freindship,that is soooo cool. Music can be so SUBJECTIVE, honesty can't be.

Thanx SANS.

#68823 by gbheil
Fri May 29, 2009 1:38 am
:wink:

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