General Music Chat

Everything said I agree with. I think my new writer Ben Cirillo had a good idea with this post about Soul and shredding at:

http://euphonyproductions.com/playing-w ... -shredding

Did you guys read it? If so what did you think? Any advice for him or criticisms? If you have any leave it in the comments section under his post at: http://euphonyproductions.com/playing-w ... g#comments

He is a bass player and seems to be a pretty good one too. He will be writing a new post every week on technique.

I also added a female writer named Liz O an R & B songwriter from Chicago, IL.

If you can spare the time to check it out and give them some support I would appreciate it.

http://euphonyproductions.com/one-femal ... s-struggle

http://euphonyproductions.com/playing-w ... -shredding

Thanks again to all of you,

Dave

LOL My new guitar technique Aretha Franklin meets Gene Simmons.

Im feeling inspired. To bad were not rehearsing tomorrow.

How cool would that be ?!?!

LOL My new guitar technique Aretha Franklin meets Gene Simmons.

Im feeling inspired. To bad were not rehearsing tomorrow.

How cool would that be ?!?!

R E S P E C T, tell you what that means to me.
LOVE GUN!!!

LOL My new guitar technique Aretha Franklin meets Gene Simmons.

Im feeling inspired. To bad were not rehearsing tomorrow.

How cool would that be ?!?!

R E S P E C T, tell you what that means to me.
LOVE GUN!!!

Oww, sockit to me, sockit to me, sockit to me. Whid yo bad self.

I love this forum.... but I will be hated on for this...

Shredding = physical prowess, it is physically hard to train your muscles to do this cleanly and in time....

However.... 90% of the time it results in a mindless droning of rapid fire "gobbledy gook" and rarely is used creatively.. mostly "any note will do".... and really doesn't add anything to the music but "look at me, I'm really fast"... or sometimes it can be used as an "effect". There are exceptions.. but very few...

Soulful playing = an art form, you cannot hide anything, everything you do is out on the table for all to hear. Taking the same scales as everyone has used since the beginning of time and melding them with the music is very difficult because it is not something you can learn... you can learn to play fast, but being musically creative and able to create melody is something that your born with, you either feel it or you don't. No teacher can teach you how to feel the music, that comes from a higher power.

Tons of musically challenged peeps (tone def) learn how to shred (technical) but they will never be able to play anything soulful or beautiful (musical). The challenge is to be able to do both….. It is ok to be soulful/musical and not shred, but it is not ok to shred and not be soulful/musical… not many can master both..

Ok guys.... flame away!!!

...

X!

I love this forum.... but I will be hated on for this...

Shredding = physical prowess, it is physically hard to train your muscles to do this cleanly and in time....

However.... 90% of the time it results in a mindless droning of rapid fire "gobbledy gook" and rarely is used creatively.. mostly "any note will do".... and really doesn't add anything to the music but "look at me, I'm really fast"... or sometimes it can be used as an "effect". There are exceptions.. but very few...

Ok guys.... flame away!!!

...

X!

I don't think flaming is necessary as you raise a good point.

But I don't understand why you are saying "playing fast" is rarely used creatively.

Chopin, Paganini, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Rachmaninov, and a lot of other non guitar musicians have written masterpieces that would be considered "shredding" this day and age.

But I don't understand why you are saying "playing fast" is rarely used creatively.

I think his comment makes sense because his context is contemporary music, and people immediately think of shredders like Yngwie.

What I observe in these cases, with discussions like this, is that people who are critical of speed typically don't listen to it. So you have to temper their criticism by understanding their lack of exposure; it would be like me criticizing a vineyard when I've probably had three glasses of wine in my entire life.

People hear someone like Yngwie once and go, "Oh, he's fast, but I think the music is boring", and then they never bother to listen to anyone else that actually plays fast again. So Yngwie is what they know of as "speed" and since they didn't like it, they don't bother with it anymore.

I don't think the reason people like myself covet speed is because of guys like Yngwie (I think he's boring as heck). We covet speed because we've listened to enough fast players who can actually utilize it well to create very soulful, artistic music that has emotional impact. And we go, "Man, that adds a whole new dimension!"

I think if a player covets speed because they just want to play chromatic scales really fast and wank around the fretboard like Yngwie then they're coveting speed for the wrong reason. But if you're going to use speed as another weapon in your arsenal to create great music, then it's a worthy endeavor.

The way I look at speed is like this: Without speed, I have a musical canvas of a certain size. Withing that canvas size I can create some neat art. But what happens if I have speed as another tool when creating a solo, or a piece of music? Guess what? I've just expanded my canvas. I've given myself more space to create art.

And really, that's why we learn the things we learn as musicians. That's why we learn scales, technique, form, posture, breathing, notation, chords, licks, modes... We learn all of that stuff so we can add it to our toolbox so that when the time comes to create something, we have as many tools at our disposal as possible. Speed is another tool. In and of itself it is not good or bad. It is how it is used in the hands of a musician that count.

There are only so many notes that my mind can comprehend in any given time. It can grab onto a melody really well, though, & appreciate it.

The biggest problems I've had with ppl like my former guitar teacher is that, though they are techically great players, I can't grasp a melody in their content. Someone like Steve Morse can fit it into his shredding, & it's not only pleasant, but astounding, when he makes that connection with my brain through his speed. Most players can't get close to what he's capable of, though, & just riff as quickly as they can with their tried & true scales. That ain't music to my ears.

I'd much rather hear someone who takes a route from outside the usual, like Skunk Baxter, who can be fast, but uses that ability sparingly while he comes at you from so many angles that you cannot predict what comes next, even after hearing him once or twice.

But I don't understand why you are saying "playing fast" is rarely used creatively.

I think his comment makes sense because his context is contemporary music, and people immediately think of shredders like Yngwie.

What I observe in these cases, with discussions like this, is that people who are critical of speed typically don't listen to it. So you have to temper their criticism by understanding their lack of exposure; it would be like me criticizing a vineyard when I've probably had three glasses of wine in my entire life.

I guess I should clarify my context…. I’m not sure if I am the wine drinker or not… but much of the “new” stuff and younger gen that I see and interact with have a pre disposed idea that “faster is better” without a lot of thought to anything else… “I must get faster!!!” I rarely hear “I must get more melodic”….

Almost all good players have some modicum of speed when they choose to use it. The speed thing is an old concept but the word “shred” (for me) is a new term for those 1200bpm thrill seekers...

So speed AND musicality like… oh say… Al Di Meola, Alan Holdsworth, Paul Gilbert, Steve Morse, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson etc.. etc… These guys can all “shred” in the modern sense but are also masters of melody as well, multi styles and disciplines fast or slow. (OMG, they are all old guys!)

So this entire rant for me is based off of what I hear the youngins refer to as “shredding” …

lol

X!

Nice piece of sole with a shredded Garlic/Lemon/ERB combo

Fries to boot.
You can have the best of both worlds if you have an IMAGINATION.

So speed AND musicality like… oh say… Al Di Meola, Alan Holdsworth, Paul Gilbert, Steve Morse, Steve Vai, Eric Johnson etc.. etc… These guys can all “shred” in the modern sense but are also masters of melody as well, multi styles and disciplines fast or slow. (OMG, they are all old guys!)

They may be old, but they're the masters. I love the way John Petrucci describes his idols as "the Steves and the Al's".

To me, those guys - especially Morse and Petrucci and Johnson - are why speed is so valuable as a learned tool. Like Philby says:

Someone like Steve Morse can fit it into his shredding, & it's not only pleasant, but astounding, when he makes that connection with my brain through his speed.

I've got a Dragonforce album. I've got an Edguy album. (Hey, I like to gather a wide variety of artists on my library, which is why you'll find Stars and Peter Gabriel and Rush and Dream Theater in the same playlist on my iPod).

And yeah, the guitar players for Dragonforce and Edguy can shred like their hands are on fire and someone just poured kerosene over them. They blaze, no question about it. And that can be fun to listen to once in a great while.

But it's not anything I'd like to make a steady diet.

I find it more difficult to play more melodic, "musical" solos. I can play fast licks all night but rarely try, it's more of a challenge to fit something melodic into a solo. David Gilmour is king of melodic guitar as far as I'm concerned, and George Harrison was a master at solos that sound like they "just grew there".

But fast is another story, as mentioned a lot of guys can play fast but it doesn't come across as soulful. Now listen to Eric Johnson and tell me that...Al DiMeola is pretty good at fast and melodic too.