General Music Chat

*** I want to say thanks to the many, many good people on this forum. You've all been of invaluable help to me over the last few months and this is deeply appreciated. I really mean that too. I'm hoping this message might help others like me and I suppose there are some at least that are lacking in the finer wisdoms of the muso world.

I've decided to write and record a CD. Nothing major, everyone does this don't they. But having taken in some sound advice and upon reading the many threads? Well this is it really.

1. Obviously write the materials.
2. Get them mixed as good as I can personally get them.
3. Get them copyrighted <<<< Very important!
4. Try and market myself through whatever means is available?
5. Get to know a lot more people and get as much advice and feedback, Good or bad, also chat to my new friends on MySpace a lot more too. (Thanks for that by the way)
6. Hopefully at some point get out and play!

There are other things too such as hooking up again with the band I was with who are great people when finances and situations allow. The really odd thing is that I do feel alive again. Music does that too you doesn't it, just grabs you by the doggies danglers and changes the way you perceive the world because it is infinite.

Anyway I just wanted to say thank you to everyone. There are some fabulous musicians here and I feel daunted at the task ahead but also looking forward to it greatly.

You are a fab bunch!

Gee, when you lay it all out like that it seems so simple! Good basic rules for sure.

Best of luck with your project. Do you have some song ideas, or stuff that's been hiding in the closet waiting to be recorded?

Make sure you research the quality of the recording studio you use, unless you're gonna do it at home. I've had bad experiences with that in the past.

Put 'em up when you've got 'em. I'd love to hear 'em.

Yeah it does seem simple doesn't it Lol.
Mind if you put hurdles in place before you start its a no win situation I feel. Look at what Neandapaul is achieving, excellent stuff for him and massive lesson to lower sundries like myself.

There is so much that I've done over the years that I cannot count them. All bedded away until a rainy day but of course I have to watch the 'dated' sound though I'm not too worried about that to be honest.

There is a lot I need though to make this work although and yes home studio will do the mixing and final meltdown. I do know what you mean about Studios. I really want what I am trying to get out, get out and not be stunted by eager knob twisting egos

Thanks Phil and everyone. Good to be alive innit!

Gee, when you lay it all out like that it seems so simple! Good basic rules for sure.
Best of luck with your project. Do you have some song ideas, or stuff that's been hiding in the closet waiting to be recorded?
Make sure you research the quality of the recording studio you use, unless you're gonna do it at home. I've had bad experiences with that in the past.
Put 'em up when you've got 'em. I'd love to hear 'em.

Best o luck Chippy! May I be so bold as to edit/rearrange your list?

1. Write some songs. Find some compatible covers to go with them.
2. Find some people to work with, even if it's just one other person.
3. Record some tracks as professionally as you can afford.
4. Get the original recordings copyrighted.
5. Post songs here and everywhere. Give away CDs to potential fans.
6. Get at least a set of material tight and get out and play!

On a side note, I see your main influence is Genesis. Gabriel or Collins era? Are you familiar with The Strawbs? Very similar, especially the album Deadlines.

Nah that's good with me Jimmy, thank you.
Oh I've tried believe me but recently I found someone with a similar background in as much as fav bands go so you never know?

Strawbs were great too and I'm influenced by so much its hard to nail it really, I don't see that as being a downside though. Much of what I've done has changed before final draft as I suspect it does with everyone?

Thanks very much Jimmy. Keep them strings a twanging will yah

Best o luck Chippy! May I be so bold as to edit/rearrange your list?

1. Write some songs. Find some compatible covers to go with them.
2. Find some people to work with, even if it's just one other person.
3. Record some tracks as professionally as you can afford.
4. Get the original recordings copyrighted.
5. Post songs here and everywhere. Give away CDs to potential fans.
6. Get at least a set of material tight and get out and play!

On a side note, I see your main influence is Genesis. Gabriel or Collins era? Are you familiar with The Strawbs? Very similar, especially the album Deadlines.

best of luck to you on your project hun remember to post and let us hear your stuff ^_^

Hey chippy, sorry but I'm here to be a complete and total buzzkill-

Work on writing, absolutely. Refine, play, refine again.

But as far as a CD goes, there's a few things about that I've witnessed, and the cycle seems to repeat itself a lot.

You obviously realized marketing is important. It's perhaps the most important aspect of the whole thing, possibly even more important than the songs themselves (although that's debatable)..

What I've seen repeat itself is an artist or band releases a CD, and it goes nowhere. it's up on itunes, collecting dust. Nobody's even listening to it.

Why?

Because there's no demand for it, joe public doens't know it exists, and musicians on websites are generally broke and overly critical of other musicians works. Let's face it, we as musicians make terrible fans.

So the path you need to take is:

write the music
Gig, gig some more, and then go gig even more. Create a market, create an image (for both you and your music). Refine the songs, pay attention to what the crowds seem to think of it. Don't rely on other musicians or family/friends to be honest in their critique. The sad fact is that we as friends/musicians want to boost your ego and be supportive of what you are doing, but the reality of it is that we are actually hurting you by not telling you (and I do mean YOU hypothetically) the truth.

The whole time you are gigging, you need to have a well planned and aggressive marketing campaign, possibly even hiring a marketing firm to help you refine your image and target audience.

Then, whilst creating this demand, you should start recording your CD. Plan a huge release party. If you can't get at least 100+ people to attend the party, then you shouldn't release a CD... get other promo gear, start selling CD's at shows... give away trinkets and t-shirts, plan a regional tour, for starters within a 150 mile radius of your home base.

Get reviewers and local media involved, people still look to the papers and city websites for entertainment events.

Unless you are just doing it for fun..then do what you want

I've quoted the whole lot on this because there are some very important and critical points raised and all are valid and good ones.

Nope not a buzzkill at all I can take most on the chin and all is welcome. That after all is where we improve if we actually listen isn't it.

I've marketed a lot of stuff both inside and outside music and know the Internet very well. That said there are a few things that I lack right now and that is hard cash. I do know oddly enough a massive promoter who was in the business years ago and asked about some stuff last year but didn't follow it up. But that is another story.....

Gigging would be impossible right now for many reasons so I decided the CD would be a good base point on which to get people interested though I know its the wrong way around.

Actually the CD gathering dust everyone should read frankly because you are right they often do. I have a few here dammit
However and having said that I have to do something so this is at least that with little cost and a heck load of work.

Wish I could sticky what you and others have posted frankly.
Thanks very much Kramer.

Chippy

Hey chippy, sorry but I'm here to be a complete and total buzzkill-

Work on writing, absolutely. Refine, play, refine again.

But as far as a CD goes, there's a few things about that I've witnessed, and the cycle seems to repeat itself a lot.

You obviously realized marketing is important. It's perhaps the most important aspect of the whole thing, possibly even more important than the songs themselves (although that's debatable)..

What I've seen repeat itself is an artist or band releases a CD, and it goes nowhere. it's up on itunes, collecting dust. Nobody's even listening to it.

Why?

Because there's no demand for it, joe public doens't know it exists, and musicians on websites are generally broke and overly critical of other musicians works. Let's face it, we as musicians make terrible fans.

So the path you need to take is:

write the music
Gig, gig some more, and then go gig even more. Create a market, create an image (for both you and your music). Refine the songs, pay attention to what the crowds seem to think of it. Don't rely on other musicians or family/friends to be honest in their critique. The sad fact is that we as friends/musicians want to boost your ego and be supportive of what you are doing, but the reality of it is that we are actually hurting you by not telling you (and I do mean YOU hypothetically) the truth.

The whole time you are gigging, you need to have a well planned and aggressive marketing campaign, possibly even hiring a marketing firm to help you refine your image and target audience.

Then, whilst creating this demand, you should start recording your CD. Plan a huge release party. If you can't get at least 100+ people to attend the party, then you shouldn't release a CD... get other promo gear, start selling CD's at shows... give away trinkets and t-shirts, plan a regional tour, for starters within a 150 mile radius of your home base.

Get reviewers and local media involved, people still look to the papers and city websites for entertainment events.

Unless you are just doing it for fun..then do what you want

I DISAGREE with gigging a bunch first and recording a CD later. If you work up a bunch of hot tunes you need to record them while they are hot. Doesn't matter if you're gigging or not. It's going to be much easier to promote yourself if you have a CD in your pocket. You'll also have something to sell at your gigs to supplement your income. I could kick myself in the butt dozens of times for every hot original we had over the years that WASN'T EVER RECORDED. Nobody will ever hear those hot versions again. I'd say get in the studio ASAP while you have the desire NOW. Don't go out and possibly get burned out on gigging and not get into the studio. Do it while you have the PASSION now. My two cents...

I have to agree with Bob.
Plus if your not starting with the song your missing the point; your not making better pie's than the other bakers, your making music and if it isn't art... well I guess you can hope to hear it in an elevater someday.
The material is "the most important" thing and everything else follows the song! AND please yourself, not others. If you feel it they'll feel it. If your just going through the motions and doing it to please them, well you may as well just have a good cover band and have a good time and not deal with disappointment so much.
People follow bands , bands don't follow people!
Best o luck!

www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/

"my dog is a little bitch"

This is why I like this place. No one pulls punches which is totally refreshing and to be honest gives you what you need, a good kick up the rear.

I have to say that I think the music itself will speak for itself and become whatever it becomes in other peoples minds? I've done this the other way around too and agree with sentiments posted, it can be a long and unforgiving slog and you'll lose your way forgetting what the goal actually was?

It's just like Math class really isn't it? I mean you have to show your workings, prove your path to a given point to anyone who looks at your work?

That's a bit deep but then I am too but I think you know what I mean?
It's going ok so far, better than I expected but I'm learning also to take my foot off the pedal a little and sit back on things before moving on again.

Thanks so much for feedback here folks. You can never learn too much or listen to too few people.

Hey, Chip. Are you talking about recording the CD yourself? If so, then, yeah, definitely do that now while it's fresh in your mind. That way you'll have something to show other musicians who might be interested in hooking up, to give them a taste of what you're looking for. If you're talking about going into a pro studio and paying big money for it, I'd say hold off until you get a whole band together. Doing tracks by yourself in a studio would take so much more time than going in with a full well rehearsed band. Besides, the sooner you start getting projects done, the sooner we'll get to hear them here.
Good luck whichever way you go about it.

Well, there are two totally different approaches to making a CD (prob more, but that's another thread...)

I answered based on what angle I though Chippy was coming from-

Generally there is no right way in this. It's almost like the which came first, chicken or egg philosophy.

The angle I was speaking about was a scenario I've seen too many times.. a songwriter/band is not gigging, so outside of a myspace page and a few other websites, they have no following, no press, no nothing... I've watched them spend a LOT of $$ to record a cd, then they get a 1000+ CD's shipped to them, and also put it on cdbaby, or tunecore, where it then trickles to amazon and itunes... and not a single copy sells.. so then they start their "publicity" campaign... making posts on musician forums instructing people to check them out and buy their tunes.

I can't think of a worse place to pimp music than on a forum full of other people who also have music for sale, most of which are also financially struggling.


Now the cart-before-the-horse applies to the above, but not to the below:

An artist or band has a lot of songs they feel strongly about, and wants to record them. Goes into the studio, records, pays a lot of $$, and gets all the same distribution as above, but actively gigs and promotes. Even gigging locally and regionally can be considered "touring the new album" in it's basic sense. This is a perfectly acceptable way to do it. You have a CD and hopefully other merch to sell at shows, and at this point, the growth is all up to the artist, and their ability to write decent music, perform well, and how well they publicize and promote themselves.

So.. yes, Bob correctly pointed out the flip-side to the coin - there's no right or wrong way, so much as a right and wrong pecking order of what you do and when.

Much appreciated Kramer.
I do have a small scale way of doing my Cd's ironically. I'm good with graphics, templates and such. this is no good of course in the number that you are talking about but for a small scale promotion I think I'm pretty well setup really.

I know its going to cost me more per CD to produce but just like you have pointed out it will be far cheaper than failing large scale. Like you I have known a few people in just that same situation. I would not want to be in it either.

The only thing I cannot do at present is wrap the CD in plastic. I'm sure there is a way, I'll find it when I need it hopefully.

Talk about one man band huh

Chippy, Some of my live ventures may be stalling out for a while so Im thinking like you about making my own CD or album.

I think in the end you will have a CD that you can look back on 10-20 yrs from now. More than likely you wont be the next big thing or american idol. I hope you do, but more than likely that isnt happening.

So if I were you, I would make sure that I make the best CD I can music wise. Ive shared on here about a metal band I was in, in the early 80s, we spent a lot of money making an album that embarss's me to this day.

As for me anything else I do original will be to make ME happy.

Worrying about marketing, selling and playing live is bullshit if you have nothing to show. Make some killer songs, and make sure they ar recorded well, then worry about all this other stuff.

I hope u make something that you can be proud of down the road.

Good Luck