General Music Chat

Hi There,
You might google and find the sites for Phil Rosenthal and Jonathan Edwards,both who have written many songs and have been involved with commercials and kids,both totally great musicians and singers and nice guys.

Regards
G

Hey folks,
I'm Fred......I'm like "brand new" here. This is an interestng string, I wish I had some anwers but actually I have questions along these same lines. I checked out the link that ratsass posted (lots of info) but I didn't see anything on publishing.

I have written a lot of songs that I want to record with my band, but would alslo like to submit for other artists to consider recording. Most of the "publishing" companies that I have looked at want to charge the writer to have a "pro" demo made to pitch the song(s) to recording artists.
Is this really how "legitimate" publishing companies work?

I would think that the publishers would want all the material that they could get there hands on......take the ones they think are promising and invest their own money in producing a "pitch ready" project.

Can anyone help a bro out?
Peace & Love,
Fred

Sell nothing outright.

Fred - "legitimate" publishing co's - well, I would never pay to have someone pitch my songs. That doesn't sound legitimate to me.

I've come to the conclusion that "it ain't necessarilly WHAT you know or produce, but WHO you know that matters," in this biz. I only know that cuz I don't know anybody. I think the best plan to sell your wares would be to find the ppl who buy them, & befriend them in any way possible. Unfortunately, they don't live in my area, & I don't travel much. I should prolly work on that aspect of my career more than I ever did in the past, cuz I have a backlog of some damned good songs in a lot of different genres, & haven't a clue how to sell them.

One thing's for sure - there are way too many outfits out there trying to take advantage of the artistic minds that are naive about business, & you must be careful about it all, whether you're a songwriter or a good cook looking into "culinary institutes." ALWAYS beware of the scam artist in dealing with anything artistic.

Fred - "legitimate" publishing co's - well, I would never pay to have someone pitch my songs. That doesn't sound legitimate to me.

No legit publisher will ever ask you to pay a fee to have your music reviewed, or even picked up by them. Publishers have a financial stake in your art. Only weasels who don't believe your music will ever sell will ask for $$ up-font.

I have written a lot of songs that I want to record with my band, but would alslo like to submit for other artists to consider recording. Most of the "publishing" companies that I have looked at want to charge the writer to have a "pro" demo made to pitch the song(s) to recording artists.
Is this really how "legitimate" publishing companies work?

Publishers will expect you to have some studio mastered songs, but know that you can't professionally produce every single song you submit (most expect 50-100 songs before they will take an active interest), so it's not unheard of for the publisher to want you to do studio work, on your own dime. BUT.. they shouldn't be asking you to pay them that dime... they should just be advising you to go to a studio..

You really should read the threads I posted in this forum (3 that start with CMMC) with info I picked up about publishing.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Update - I got an email from him today...

"...I think my title is fun enough to grab attention; "Jelly Bean Soup and Grilled Candy Sandwiches". My friend, Joe Santoro of Wonderment Puppet fame is going to illustrate. That is exciting to me.

Did you record your Jelly Bean Soup song on any of your marketed CD's? If so, would you sell me one to be able to at least hear it again to determine it's relationship to my healthy eating fun book. Thanks! As a professional magician I have felt the pain of others stealing ideas and even complete routines that I have created and using as their own, so I want to pay you for the song if it fits or if we can make it fit into the healthy eating message.

Thanks, brother for your consideration.

Magically for kids, Michael T. "

I only have live recordings of that song on tape, from about 15 yrs ago, & of course I can't find them. I would have guessed that he had a library of tapes from the tv show that he could sift through to find it, from when I played it there...WHY don't I keep my stuff better organized?!?



Oh well...I send him some of the lyrics, but I'd bet it isn't useful to him.

Should I charge him for using the title? Can I? Would it be right?

I just don't know anything about this stuff...

We bump into each other on rare occasions, & he always talks about the fun we had when I guested on his show, & how much he wants to collaborate with me on a kids' project of some sort. It never quite seems to come together, though.

I'm gonna just do it & hope for the best. I'll call him tonight, if it doesn't rain & I hafta postpone STICKS for tomorrow night. (If it rains we'll do it tonight, cuz Dddonnie is still coaching that lil league team & they're s'posed to play tonight.)

I think it may be best to charge him a set fee, like $1,000, & a portion of the proceeds from each sale of his thingy...what do you think?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In other news, I tried one of my hams & it's very tasty, but way different from any ham I've ever eaten.

The bacons, however...well, I think I flooked them up. I cured them too long, & they're kinda dried out & almost hard, like jerky. I'm gonna hafta try to rehydrate them in water in the fridge before I take 'em to get sliced. Grrrrrrrrr!

Okay...I've told y'all about writing a theme song for a kid's TV show some years ago. I got the (unpaid) job by auditioning (badly) for the host's position, & playing one of my songs - "Jelly Bean Soup."

I ran into the guy that hosted that show today. He wants to use the title of my song "Jelly Bean Soup" as part of a title for a nutritional vid for kids. He also wants to use my song in an animated thing. He wants me to give him a price for the song, & the rights to record & change it & such, to fit his needs.

He also mentioned that he may want me to play it while he sings it, & wants to use my drummer's studio, possibly.

I have no idea what scale is on song sales, or if there is one. Should I go for a percentage, or give him a one-time price for a single use? What should I do to make sure I'm not screwing myself?

There are no music industry or copyright lawyers in my area. Believe me, I've tried to find them in the past.

Any good places to find info o/l? Anyone wanna refer me to a good lawyer who won't screw EITHER me or the other guy?

I got his card & told him I'd be in touch, so I have a LITTLE time to get my sh*t together.

HELP?

Last time someone asked me for the rights to one of my songs, it was "Morons," & I told then I'd sell it for 5 grand. Never heard from them again. LOL

Somehow I missed this one...

Get that song and all of it's legals straight to a decent publisher and have him negotiate a percentage based royalty for you... DONT negotiate this without representation, you will get screwed. Hope I didn't get here too late!

You replied to this one before, Kramer, so you aren't too late. Thanks, man.

I copyrighted this thing back in '92, & it was published by the now-defunct tv station in order to air it. I have no idea how to get that info at this point, since they've been gone for quite awhile.

Where does one find a reputable publisher, anyway? Can anyone refer me to one? Will it be a problem if it were published once before for airing purposes?

I don't really expect this lil project to be a huge mainstream kid's hit, & even if it turns out to be, my input with this song will be kinda small. However, I would like to be paid for my work on some level.

I've come to the conclusion that I'm a complete amateur in the professional realm of music/songwriting sales.

We're all amateurs ...

I don't know of any specific publishers to send you to, I just know how they work. They have a vested (usually 20%) stake when you sign on with them, so they are good at negotiating, and most of them would recommend you do a percentage based royalty vs. the one-time fee, especially in television, where repeats and merchandising become a huge part of the success (if it's successful). You deserve to profit off all that stuff, not just a one-time payment.

I'd hit google if I were you, look up publishing companies in your area, call a few and explain that you have a tv show interested in your work, and need representation... keep in mind that most of them get bombarded by people who just write garbage in their basements and want the publishers to sell it for them... They are cautious about who they take in simply because they don't want to waste time on stuff they can't sell - so many of them are hard to reach; and you have to watch out for the "I'm living in my mom's basement, but I'm a big publisher" wanna-be's too.

Sorry if I responded and am conflicting anything I posted earlier... been real busy lately and have become hair-brained haha... I should go back and read what I said ...

philbymon, I have nothing to offer either....other than an "attaboy", and cover yer butt...I'm reading the "How Things Work" link - thanks for that, ratsass.