General Music Chat

So far, I've had alot of people tell me I can write. but somehow, I'm a bit sceptical. So heres a song I wrote. Gimme a little critique...

"Toll Keeper"

[intro]
Life for Life
Blood for blood
Life for Life(louder)
Blood for blood(Louder)
Life for Life(louder)
Blood for blood(louder)
Life for Life(screaming)
Blood for blood(screaming)

[verse 1]*all screaming*

Life for life
Blood for blood
You die in vain
For those you love
Life for life
It's not enough
Forsaken by
The ones above

[chorus]*still screaming*

Life for life
Eternal debt
That grinds your bones
And rends your flesh
Blood for blood
To lift this toll
I must be paid
With your soul

[insert]*screaming*

You want in hell
You pay the price
Hope eternal
Shall suffice

*guitar solo 1*

[insert]*deeper scream*

You want in hell
You pay the price
Hope eternal
Shall suffice

*guitar solo 2*

[vocal/guitar outro]*screaming*

You want in hell
You pay the price
Hope eternal
Shall suffice
Now its done
We are one
Your soul is mine
For all of time

It looks ok to me. I can see the syllables working. It looks like a normal Black Death Metal song to me.

Just be careful of certain words together and whether they roll off the tongue smoothly.

"And Rends your flesh" might be an awkward one. When sung properly it might sound like "and rents ya flesh" or "wrench ya flesh" or "Ranger Flesh". If you go with the "Rends-your" combo you might find that the NDS might have to be drawn out to the point that you end up off time to the music if you really want people to know what it is you're saying..

It's ok sometimes to sacrifice the poetry aspect of a writing to just make the words roll of the tongue.

I think the writing is good as it stands. If you happen to run into any tongue twisters, just change it to a word combo that rolls. Nobody will ever know. You're screaming it out anyway. You just want the screams to sound smooth and fluent.

It's fine man. Good luck.

thanx. glad to hear its not just my friends being overly supportive again

Well, there's not really much to it, is there? Lotsa repetition, & I find it a bit confusing, really.

"Hope eternal shall suffice"..."Your soul is mine for all time."

Those two lines seem at odds with each other, esp since they appear in the same verse. I mean, if the soul is his for all time, is there room for hope?

Just an observation. I'm sure when it's heard in a song context, it matters little, & probably sounds real cool, but it makes little sense as lyrics go, to me.

I see the point. and this is just a rough draft. But so far trying to sing it has gone well aside from a few mix-ups (I was walking and practicing and missed a note cuz I tripped...if that counts as a mix-up)

This is going to sound really harsh. Brace yourself...




Is it really a "song"? Looks like words to me. Poetry at best. Until there's music I don't consider it a "song". Any stooge can write "lyrics". Rappers do it all the time.

A song is ART man.

And WORK.

It's harmony, melody, chords and rhythm. Maybe most importantly - arrangement. Composition. Any fool can follow the tired verse-chorus pattern. It takes skill to break out of the box.



Here's an example...

Below I've posted some lyrics. You don't know this song (my guess is that no one on this message board has actually heard this song before).


So, go ahead and read the lyrics.


When you're done reading the lyrics, think about what YOU think the music should sound like. Put together a really good image in your mind of what YOU the music should sound like.




I'm under fire blood red sky
Underneath the war machine
Fight for what's right don't ask why
Just make the sacrifice

Desensitized but my eyes
Still recognize the pain
Truth stark and real fight or die
Retreat has no place in this game

In the dark and under fire
Believing our cause was justified
Caught in the crosshairs condition dire
Trying a case of do or die
In the blink of an eye
I took someone's life
It's no wonder why
I'm hunted by it still

Bright Flickering light snubbed by my numbing hands
Don't understand
One finger slip and it's over for him
All's fair in war so they say
But later as I try to sleep
I just can't help but replay
When I sat in as deity

Was this man a loving father?
Was this man a loving son?
Though it was one of us or the other
I don't feel like a lucky one
In the blink of an eye
I took someone's life
It's no wonder why
I'm hunted every night
I still hear his cries
And think about his wife and his kids
And all that he could have been
If only we'd have been friends
In a blink of an eye...

Now check Youtube for a listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bR1n6VmmSs

My guess is that whatever you came up with in your head for music doesn't match what this band did with this song.

Music matters.

CF - that, sir, was incredible. It's stuff like this that makes it worthwhile to be here at all. Never heard of these guys, but I'm gonna be checking out their other stuff ASAP.

Thank you.

You are welcome.

They've put out seven albums. There's a pretty good sized catalog to peruse.

This is going to sound really harsh. Brace yourself...




Is it really a "song"? Looks like words to me. Poetry at best. Until there's music I don't consider it a "song". Any stooge can write "lyrics". Rappers do it all the time.

With all due respect man, I did Metal for many years. These look like the same kinds of lyrics you'd find in Swedish Metal. Which is highly revered in the Metal world. Having played it, and in reading the lyrics, this could easily have music written for it in this genre. So I personally do consider it a song. His syllable patterns are correct for the style he's going for.

I've met many Metal singers in my day that couldn't play instruments. They usually write lyrics like this and work on the music with the band after the fact to work out the details and edits. It's pretty common.

As far as the artistry, it looks similar to a lot of metal lyric writings that I've seen since the 80's. The reason these lyrics might look strange to you is because you have to remember that in Euro style Metal, English is usually a second language to the writer. So they look basic, and a lot of times may not look like they make sense to people who primarily speak English. A lot of times they just want to create a Dark almost medieval imagery.

That's the sense I'm getting from D4RK3R1's writing style. Most musicians write like the bands they love to listen to and admire. In this Genre, you're not looking to be Floyd or Incubus, just create a dark imagery, and perform it all evil and stuff.

RAAWWWRRR!!!

I gotta be fair though and give D4RK3R1 the same advice I gave Ryan. Learn to really sing as well. The Metal saturation will eventually cause it's own downfall in popularity. Be prepared to expand beyond just the screaming. Just sayin!! Not trying to offend!! But the underground public around here already seems to be getting tired of it. All the lightening riffs and screaming can make a crowd grow weary after a while. Especially if it's not breaking any barriers.

But for now, have fun and good luck to you.

this could easily have music written for it in this genre.

Keyword: could

Until it actually does have music, it's just a collection of words.

this could easily have music written for it in this genre.

Keyword: could

Until it actually does have music, it's just a collection of words.

Hate to say it, but I'm agreeing..

Neil Peart doesn't write lyrics, he writes poetry. Geddy and Alex write music to it, and then Neil converts necessary parts to lyrics, but until the music is written, nobody calls it a song.

That kind of always bothered me too, all those "check out my song" threads on HC, and all they list is poetry, so I see where CF is coming from here.

Does any one remember BERNIE TAUPIN & ELTON JOHN?
THANX COLORS FADE>ENCHANTED IS WONDERFUL.,
THEY NEED A MUCH BETTER BUSINESS MANAGER!!!!!!!!!!!

So far, I've had alot of people tell me I can write. but somehow, I'm a bit sceptical. So heres a song I wrote. Gimme a little critique...

*snip*
You die in vain
For those you love
*snip*

Quick nit pick. If you die FOR those you love, you didn't really die in vain did you?

I look at lryics as telling a type of story, and for me a story needs to have a progression of ideas, whether any one chorus or stanza does this doesn't matter as long as the overall progression of ideas tells me something overall about why your saying something at all ^.^

I also like it when the end of a progression ties back into the beginning - or uncovers what was mysterious in the middle. Adding this element, to me, makes the poetic verse artistic.

Your lyrics have a progression for sure. But they leave an unresolved question in my mind. Perhaps that's by design, in which case, I don't like the lyrics because of what I stated above. If it's not by design, and you want ME to like it, fix it so i can understand it! Otherwise, ignore the rest.

---------------------------------
This is what I read into it.
---------------------------------
The title is "Toll Keeper", so my immediate thought is there is someone expecting some form of payment for something.

-----------
INTRO
-----------
The intro "life for life, blood for blood" hint that this toll is some form of retribution or requirement for something.

-----------
VERSE 1
-----------
Verse one then says you die in vain, but your death wasn't enough to pay the toll? then you say your loved ones forsake you, I'm left thinking that they forsake you because the toll wasn't enough.

So what is this toll that your loved ones require? What does the toll get you?

Then comes chorus. Does it square with my hunch so far?
-----------
CHORUS
-----------
The debt is eternal. you want the toll lifted. What does that mean? You want in for free? Then someone is introduced in first person as "I". O.K. so, my hunch was wrong? To this point I was thinking that the toll was killing 4 people, possibly for the sake of 4 others, hence the 4 shouts of blood for blood, and life for life.

As such, I also thought there were perhaps 4 loved ones (family members) that were somehow demanding toll for something you wanted... Now that idea would be a very interesting way to take the lyrics.

The first person "I" throws me, so I'm back to square 1 on the intro. I'll have to wait longer for some unfolding of what all that intro was about.

So now I have rethink everything. The chorus now makes me think: this person "I", in order to be paid, needs your soul. Why? The intro? You killed 4 people for your family sake, but your family doesn't acknowledge your sacrifice for them, leaving you with an eternal debt?

-----------
Next Verse
-----------
"You want in hell". ok. scrap the second interpretation. If you wanted in hell, then the toll has nothing to do with forsaking yourself for others, but rather killing others for the sake of getting into hell.

"You pay the price, hope eternal, shall suffice"
At this point, I'm really confused because either you want IN hell or you want OUT of hell. If the toll to get into hell is "hope eternal", then the hope is to get INTO hell, so when you actually get into Hell, you no longer hope to get into hell because you're already there, so really the hope lasts only as long as you are outside of hell. If it's the other way, the same conundrum exists.



Then the chorus comes in. "To lift this toll
But then... you introduce in verse 2 the "lifting" of a toll. In order to lift the toll, there is an eternal payment - i.e., an eternal soul.

So it's really not toll, but a ransom?


----------
Last Verse
----------
"Now its done, We are one, Your soul is mine, For all of time"
So this person "I" finally got your soul, which means the ransom was paid? So your ransomed soul purchased the freedom of who exactly?

----------------------------------
My conclusion and recommendations
----------------------------------
It's one thing to be vague on purpose. I understand the power of mystery, but I'm not able to even decipher what your intro was referring to. The end didn't solidify anything for me except to say that "you" paid a ransom to something (the devil?) for the killing of 4 people, but the payment for this ransom was "you", so who benefitted? You, because you wanted into hell and you were willing to pay a toll to get in?

I think with a little creative massaging and some reordering of events, these lyrics can be resolved in such a way that the introduction comes to light. At least doing that would make something easy to grasp from your lyrics.

Other than that, just writing this up made me think of at least 2 ways I would take it

good luck,
Chris



"Toll Keeper"

[intro]
Life for Life
Blood for blood
Life for Life(louder)
Blood for blood(Louder)
Life for Life(louder)
Blood for blood(louder)
Life for Life(screaming)
Blood for blood(screaming)

[verse 1]*all screaming*

Life for life
Blood for blood
You die in vain
For those you love
Life for life
It's not enough
Forsaken by
The ones above

[chorus]*still screaming*

Life for life
Eternal debt
That grinds your bones
And rends your flesh
Blood for blood
To lift this toll
I must be paid
With your soul

[insert]*screaming*

You want in hell
You pay the price
Hope eternal
Shall suffice

*guitar solo 1*

[insert]*deeper scream*

You want in hell
You pay the price
Hope eternal
Shall suffice

*guitar solo 2*

[vocal/guitar outro]*screaming*

You want in hell
You pay the price
Hope eternal
Shall suffice
Now its done
We are one
Your soul is mine
For all of time

[hey man im starting a metal band and you sound great for the part. give me a call anytime 540 357 4418 we play lamb of god/ as i lay dying kind of music.