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#64447 by ratsass
Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:52 pm
Writer, I think what it boils down to is this. You're not a musician (yet, but you could learn). You are a lyricist. You're arguing your musicianship using computer generated songs and that won't cut it with real musicians. I'd say, on a musician site like this, you should just put yourself out there as a lyricist as there may be some bands looking for someone who can write song lyrics. Also check out some poetry sites. Walt Whitman didn't call himself a songwriter. He didn't write music. He wrote poetry and was famous for doing just that. Don't stop using the PC for writing music for your lyrics, but don't put it out there as music. Add your lyrics to it (find a singer to record it with you) and use the music to get your ideas across as to how the song should go. I know you found some cool toys and got really excited about it, but I think you jumped the gun by putting unfinished works out here. Those sites that you pay to put your stuff out there don't care about anything but the money. You could fart, record it, loop it for 3 minutes and put it on their site, as long as you pay. Bandmix is a good site for musicians and if you put computer generated music on here, it is kind of an insult to real musicians, but if you use it to show that you're a lyricist, most of us would understand. Anyway, that's the way I see it. Good luck in your endeavors.

#64456 by gbheil
Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:20 pm
Very well spoke Ratsass.

Now I am almost ashamed of myself.

Almost.

#64457 by philbymon
Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:22 pm
:shock: He's a lyricist? :shock:

He SAID he was a composer.
#64468 by The Writer
Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:16 pm
I knew it wasn't illegal in Hedgefill, as long as it's for medicinal valentino stuff:) I understand the inner turmoil of of the (real) musicans out there. I really do. They see me as some sort of albattross electronic geeK infringing on theor territory> In fear they rant and rave about the validity of the blood, sweat and tears at the mill. And they see feel that electronic music is but a far fling at the real thing. For the sake of argument, I will not argue against their arguments, but until I learn how to toot the harmonica, and breath into the bagbags with articulation, I will have to play ping pong at the dashboard of the iotas. Somehow this arguments, seems like the arguments againts the merits of roc and roll, which I like very much! (I want dance with your daddy all night long, take me by the hand, hand...) and I see the artificial canned music that I dish out, as inferior in composition, texture, and flavor. But, alas my bandmixonians I am not trying to tittilate your palates with my compositions. Later in due time, I will introduce my writings. My words may cause as much havoc as my music though, and I just had a funny thought you may ask me to go back to the electric digits.
Last edited by The Writer on Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#64473 by HowlinJ
Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:56 pm
The Writer's points are valid.

Hoagy Carmichael wasn't a music composer, but wrote lyrics to some of the most successful pop songs ever! (Stardust,..I played it many times)

Everyone's trip is different, and thank God (or whatever) for it. :wink:

breaks over, Cins yellin', and I still got a lot of unfinished house to build sittin' out back,.... so...

later
HJ
Last edited by HowlinJ on Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#64474 by philbymon
Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:57 pm
Sorry, HJ, but I couldn't disagree more...

See, this is why I didn't go into medicine - cuz I knew I'd be so inferior at it that I should find something that I AM good at. It's also why I don't play amateur jet pilot or race car driver...I CAN drive, but not nearly well enough to constantly turn left at excess speeds... :wink:

Electronic music isn't simple cut & paste, writer. It involves composing, knowing the rules of music & applying them, a good knowledge of recording techniques, new sound design, etc etc etc. You can't just use this stuff & say you're creating, because you aren't. Look to Jean-Micheal Jarre, Vangelis, Philip Glass, or other COMPOSERS in the electronic field, & you'll see what I'm talking about. These ppl have learned what to do & how to do it.

The ppl who come up with "new electro-dance grooves" & other sampled crapola don't "infringe on my territory," because they aren't anywhere NEAR my territory. It insults me when they cheapen what I do by comparing themselves to my work, but I am in no way worried that they are taking away from my legitimately-earned audiences.

I hope you find your muse, but at 54, if you're still this much adrift, I'm frankly wondering about your ability to do so.

I listened to the piece that you tossed together for your dead friend, & I must ask you, in all honesty, which would be better - the cut & paste tribute, or a well-crafted actual song that you put something of yourself into? How can you show your feelings for your friend using other ppl's samples? Do you have feelings for him? I think you do, but you are unable to demonstrate them like this, because there's nothing in it that came from you. Where is the emotion, if it's all canned? There are innumerable ways to play a riff, various speeds, intensities, the proper touch at various points on the neck of a guitar to give it different tones. How can you possibly express the emotion when the riff is stuck in a can?

You say that you write lyrics. Do you go through books to swipe sentences from, & string them together, to "create" your lyrics? I hope not, but that is exactly what you're doing, musically, when you use these sampled bits & string them together.

I hope I'm getting something through to you about art, writer. It's an involved process that demands YOUR heart, YOUR feelings, YOUR perceptions, to communicate things to ppl.

#64477 by ratsass
Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:30 pm
philbymon wrote:Do you go through books to swipe sentences from, & string them together, to "create" your lyrics? I hope not, but that is exactly what you're doing, musically, when you use these sampled bits & string them together.


OOOOH! Good comparison, Philby. Wish I had written that. :?

#64478 by philbymon
Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:33 pm
Yeah, I liked that, too, ratsass. I think I'll write a book using nothing but sentences I find here in the forums & call it my own!

:wink:

#64479 by ratsass
Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:35 pm
philbymon wrote:Yeah, I liked that, too, ratsass. I think I'll write a book using nothing but sentences I find here in the forums & call it my own!

:wink:


And steal a title for it too? Much Ado About Nothing :twisted:

#64488 by Chippy
Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:59 pm
Charles you should not have given the game away though someone will have found out anyway.

I have loops and............ Heck I've got a bundle of stuff that I didn't do and could easily form it into something that someone could comment on and I think that's the real difference here.

If you didn't strike the chord, the song is not yours, period. I do wish you luck however and wonder just how far you'll go with pre-recorded music?

#64489 by jimmydanger
Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:55 pm
Writer, I have a friend in much the same predicament. Every year he writes a notebook full of lyrics, at least 200. He then picks ten of the best and we go record them. I assemble the musicians and we write the music in the studio, on the spot, after he describes the feel he is looking for. The songs are recorded as is, no overdubs, and he loves it! We did his eighth one this week, I posted one of the tunes on my profile, it's called Stay Focused. He's not a musician, doesn't claim to be but he loves doing this and pays us to help him. Maybe you could do something similar.

Pot

#64490 by The Writer
Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:06 pm
It is a flower, or is that weed? Point in case-who gives a ratsass?
Laughing

#64495 by philbymon
Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:32 pm
I feel a huge case of nevermind coming on...

#64497 by gbheil
Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:49 pm
He who knows cannot be educated.
A full cup cannot be filled.
What is the sound of one hand clapping?
#64504 by The Writer
Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:48 pm
yeah Phil-Good point.

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