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#57087 by EDDY123
Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:38 am
HEY GUYS AND GALS. I was reading another post on theory and it has got me thinking, I have stugled to find people to jam with , not because no one has contacted me but because of my lack of ability. I can rip out a solo that rocks but I have so much trouble lerning other players stuff. I have had so manny ofers for bands and I keep sticken to this origanal thing witch is realy a cop out. I have started trying to play covers again and I am stugling but trying. I am terable at book leningDUHHHHHH 8th grade education. Do you guys think I should take some lesons from a teacher and explain to the teacher my situation. This is a verry hard post for me it is as ohnest about my abillitys as I can get. THANKS!!!!!!!

PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#57088 by Hayden King
Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:44 am
EDDY123 wrote: I keep sticken to this origanal thing witch is realy a cop out


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/
http://bandmix.com/hayden-king/
hayden_king2000 on yahoo messenger

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#57092 by fisherman bob
Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:00 am
Sticking to an original thing isn't a cop out. I think you've got your situation backwards. You should be looking for people who can keep up with YOU. SCREW trying to do covers. Your music is interesting to me. If I lived in Richmond I'd attempt to try and back YOU up. If you can find people to add a little more structure to YOUR tunes and on some of YOUR tunes somes lyrics, then you would really have something. If you feel that by learning some covers would help YOUR music then learn some covers. If you think learning some theory would help YOUR music then learn some theory. But don't think you have to join a cover band. Other musicians should be joing forces with YOU, not the other way around. Keep posting your originals for us to listen to. At the least I enjoy them.
#57093 by EDDY123
Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:02 am
Hayden King wrote:
EDDY123 wrote: I keep sticken to this origanal thing witch is realy a cop out


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/44517500
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/
http://bandmix.com/hayden-king/
hayden_king2000 on yahoo messenger

*
I do want to play my origanals but I keep turning down band offers because I cant lern the material. And I realy want to get out and play. I wass just looking for advice.
PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#57095 by EDDY123
Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:08 am
fisherman bob wrote:Sticking to an original thing isn't a cop out. I think you've got your situation backwards. You should be looking for people who can keep up with YOU. SCREW trying to do covers. Your music is interesting to me. If I lived in Richmond I'd attempt to try and back YOU up. If you can find people to add a little more structure to YOUR tunes and on some of YOUR tunes somes lyrics, then you would really have something. If you feel that by learning some covers would help YOUR music then learn some covers. If you think learning some theory would help YOUR music then learn some theory. But don't think you have to join a cover band. Other musicians should be joing forces with YOU, not the other way around. Keep posting your originals for us to listen to. At the least I enjoy them.
Thanks BOB, In my heart I know your rite, I have realy stugled to find people who want to do annything other than covers and I figuered if I did the cover thing I could get my origanals out there.

#57099 by The KIDD
Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:29 am
Hey man ,I understand where your comin from and know what ya meant by your statement. Having theory knowledge allows you to jam with others without having to know the tune.Playing in a key , knowing all of its possible changes ,no matter what genre it is,can really cut down on the guess work.It will also train your ear to know before hand whats comin allowing you alotta freedom to improvise and you'll learn and retain tunes at a much faster rate.You'll have a fail proof system to follow thats universal.Plus , you'll be able to communicate it to others.
Being a "side man" "on call " musician working for many different bands in different genres, plus doing studio work, this is a must. I will often only have 2-3 days to learn 7-8 tunes Ive never heard. You natural talent will NOT be hindered. When your actually playing, your theory knowledge will operate sub conciously with your muscle memory.
Learning the nashville # system for all 12 Keys would be a great place to start. When you start seeing HOW the notes apply to each key respectively , and their relationship to other keys, its gonna open up a whole new world for ya.

#57104 by ZXYZ
Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:53 am
Dude- Playing by Ear (which is what you do i believe) is a gift. It can get you a lot further than all the theory and lessons and what-everybody-trys-to-sell-ya-and-give-ya... and what-not...
--and like Kidd said, it doesnt hurt to know the C and the G and the A chord (the most important one :D ) and the D and E. It's easy..

#57105 by fisherman bob
Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:06 am
I understand your wanting to get out and play. I've been in so many covers and mainly covers bands that I'm ready to puke. Everybody wants instant gratification. SLap a bunch of covers together, go out and gig almost immediately, make a little gas money, have a few drinks, and IGNORE your originals. That's what happens. It's just not happening to me. That's one of the reasons we're having a hard time finding guitarists right now. Nobody wants to work on anything original. In your case you definitely would be a project for somebody to work with. That's not an insult, that's a compliment. It's going to take some work to develop your originals. But I'm hearing awesome potential when you post your music on here. Too bad I can't clone myself, I'd send one of me to Richmond to help you out. Later...

#57110 by The KIDD
Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:56 am
I think if you guys would go back and really read his post especially HERE:
"have so much trouble lerning other players stuff" you'll see he's tryin to go to a different place than where your responses are leading him. I , like you guys , have told him everything your tellin him about HIS material in previous posts but he wants to accquire knowledge to fit in with others and be able to fit in on THEIR terms..Read his post ! He had the balls to post this and HE has come to the conculsion that HE sees the need to further HIS knowledge. Not all of us are at the same place actively persuing orginals VRS covers. He's TRYING to learn OTHERS material and struggling so I wanna give him the tools that will help him succeed. He wouldnt have posted if he was getting anywhere with what he already knows???

#57111 by Hayden King
Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:03 am
to me it sounds like a thirsty man passing up a drink o water for a brownie; sure it'll feel good for a while, then he'll realize that he is even thirstier!

Eddy it sounds like a cop out alright... sounds like you copping out on yourself!


www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/
http://bandmix.com/hayden-king/
hayden_king2000 on yahoo messenger

*

#57117 by Jessica M
Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:06 am
First of all, you definitely do not have a lack of ability. From what I hear on your profile you have a lot of skill and talent and any band should count themselves lucky to have someone who can play by ear and solo...not everyone can do that.
Now, as for learning theory and sight reading, there is nothing wrong with that at all and finding a good teacher who is willing to explain it in a practical way that doesn't involve analyzing countless songs by washed up performers from the Baroque period will be your best bet. There are also a ton of websites that explain music theory really well and give really good examples if you want to give that a try first. :D

#57118 by josh_back
Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:42 am
Jessica M wrote:Now, as for learning theory and sight reading, there is nothing wrong with that at all...


^ +1

while you're a skilled guitarist already, its in no way going to hurt your abilities by getting lessons. if anything it'll improve dramatically upon them. so i think it's a good idea.

i once read that randy rhoads would seek out teachers and other guitarists while on tour and learn from them... that's probably the smartest thing anybody could do.
#57120 by fretwork
Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:18 am
EDDY123 wrote:HEY GUYS AND GALS. I was reading another post on theory and it has got me thinking, I have stugled to find people to jam with , not because no one has contacted me but because of my lack of ability. I can rip out a solo that rocks but I have so much trouble lerning other players stuff. I have had so manny ofers for bands and I keep sticken to this origanal thing witch is realy a cop out. I have started trying to play covers again and I am stugling but trying. I am terable at book leningDUHHHHHH 8th grade education. Do you guys think I should take some lesons from a teacher and explain to the teacher my situation. This is a verry hard post for me it is as ohnest about my abillitys as I can get. THANKS!!!!!!!

PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Wow man I give credit for posting this, unfortunately your post leaves me with questions rather then answers, it would be helpful if you could outline on you what you need help, I’m gonna assume that you’re unable to read the neck of your guitar, I.E. you can play a lead and hit the right notes but you can’t name those notes and the chords needed to back them up, the fact that you’re willing to learn is a plus in your favor and contrary to some comments from other posters learning some theory doesn’t mean giving up creativity or originality.

I’ve come across players with the same problem who I was happy to pass along what I know cause they were willing to learn for the same reason you’ve outlined, they wanted to play with other musicians but they lacked in theory which is essential when playing with others, when a bunch of players get together weather they’re playing originals or cover there is a language which is used namely chords, notes bars or measures, fifth, octaves, sevenths etc.

Again I’m assuming this is the kind stuff you’d like to learn which for a guy in your position can seem overwhelming, the good news is that is not difficult, like everything else when you don’t know something it looks difficult and mysterious until you understand it.

You know the hard part already I mean playing a solo well and staying on key contrary to some other players who know theory but are not fluent on technical skills. It’s almost frustrating to me to see a player like you been so close from being a complete musician and not be able to help due to the distance, but with computers this is not a big problem.

I give some starting pointers hope they will not confuse you, first memorize couple things; the progression of notes, DO, RE, ME, FA, SOL, LA, TE, DO and translate them in English which are C, D, E, F, G, A, B. C, after that learn the fingering needed to play those chord all of them at the bottom of the guitar neck next the head knot, at this point learn the intervals which are marked already on your guitar neck with dots, interval in case you don’t know are the counts of the frets needed to move from one chord to the next, they are also used for solo scales but for chords and they are; 2, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1. Meaning when playing a C major chord and want to play the next chord on the progression which is D major the interval numbering tells you to move up 2 frets without changing the fingering, keep in mind to play only the strings you’re pressing

This is true for every chord played at the bottom of the neck next to the head knot, but as you move up the neck using the intervals numbers or the dots on the neck to go from one chord to the next without changing the fingering form, you’ll have to bar the chord with the index finger or press on the first 2 stings (E and B stings) along the rest of the stings that the chord calls for. This is due to the fact that when playing at the bottom of the neck you have the head knot there, but when moving up the neck you can’t move the knot so your index finger has to serve as movable knot in order to maintain the same finger’s position, with this system to can play all the chords anywhere on the neck without changing the fingering form.

I think this would be a good starting point for you, after that you could move on the learn what are the notes needed to form any given chord, once you’ll learn that the next step would be to learn sharps, flats, minor, cycle of fifths, solo scales which becomes easer once you learn the notes forming chords.

BTW a chord if formed by playing 3 strings therefore if you play an E major chord strumming all 6 strings, you’ll be playing the E major chord twice so if you learn the 3 notes of the first 3 strings, the notes of the other 3 strings are the same. Example; to play an E major chord you need to play the lower open E string, then press on the B note of the second string (which is A when played open) and press on the E note on the third string (which is D when played open) most power chords are played with 3 strings, however for some songs a rhythm guitar plays 6 strings or a chord twice for each strum.

Hope this makes some sense to you let me know if you need additional info’s on what I’ve tried to explain other guys here might be able to do a better job them me so you might not need me to confuse you any further.
Good Luck

#57122 by Crip2Nite
Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:05 pm
Very simple..as I'm prolly known as the king of covers here :roll: ...Would be real cool if your songs that you wanted to learn were on cassette so you could just take little snippets of the song and rewind and play and rewind and play,etc... till you get it right.. you can also use that same feature in itunes which is what I use. I refuse to go on to the next part of the tune till I have each"snippet" down to your liking... if it's a very intricate lead, don't kill yourself trying to get every freakin' note down... you can get away with just the basic sound and the peeps will still enjoy it! Here's me doin' a simple lead in a Zeppellin tune that's pretty much me shredding it and the crowd still loved it! :

CLICK 4 CRIP LOL

I even actually threw in a few Stevie Vai-Van Halen "Licks" in the end! :twisted:

#57126 by philbymon
Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:13 pm
As a former music teacher, this is how I would approach your problem, EDDY.

1 ) I'd show you how to chart out your neck, & make you do it quite a few times. Reason for this is that you know a lot, instinctively, but you need to understand WHAT you're actually doing before you'll get the WHY. If I asked you what note is on the 8th fret of your 2nd string, could you tell me without going to your guitar?

2 ) I'd watch you play through the basic scales, just to assure myself that you understand the major & minors & relative scales & such.

3 ) I'd check what you know in terms of music theory...do you know what chords will work next when a song is stopped, in any given key

Covers or originals aside, being able to play with others is the cornerstone of music. It's communication. Just working on your own stuff, all alone cuz you can't work with others, is musical masturbation. You SHOULD be able to play basic blues in any key with any accomplished muso. You SHOULD be able to sit in with your average rock or country band, & contribute. If you find you cannot, go back to the basics, & learn those things you need to learn.

Book learnin' is tough for many of us. But I gotta ask you - have you ever played a C flat or an E sharp? Can you find that E flat or F sharp on every string of your axe? Do you understand how a diminished chord works, & how to play it up the neck for effect? Do you understand the concept of a "sharp 5th," or "go to the 6th," or what constitues a ninth?

These are basic questions in music that I'd be sure you know the answers for. You should find a qualified teacher to help you brush up on your understanding of how music works. Once you do that, you'll find it much easier to work with other ppl, as you play anything, in any given genre.

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