General Music Chat

I search many websites looking for different ideas and such... and happened to come upon a bar site (Georgia Bar) that was promoting itself to bands. After reading its offer to bands... and of course the (must comply if you want to play here) rules and regulations section... I thought I was going to fall off my chair to see that bands were actually expected to participate in such an arrangement.

This is an overview of what I read:

(1) The bar hosts 3 bands on each Friday and Saturday night. Bands wanting to play there MUST sell their very own tickets.... as the ticket sales are the bands only source of payment for their nights work. (the bar doesn't in any way pay any band fees).

There isn't any limit or demand suggested on the quantity of tickets sold.

(2) Each customer/fan entering the bar is stopped at the door and asked to pay a $10 entry fee AND is asked... which 1 of the 3 bands they are there to see. If the fan says... i'm here to see band 1... then the bar owner takes $6 from the $10 received... and gives the other $4 to band 1 as their nights performance pay.

If from 100 fans that enter the bar ... 60 says band 1.... 30 says band 2... and the remaining 10 fans say band 3 then the payments to the bands for their nights performance is as follows:

Band 1: $240
Band 2: $120
Band 3: $40

Bar owner: $600

I found it interesting how the bar owner ensured that he made more money than the 3 bands did together.... while at the same time... guaranteeing ZERO expense... but rather... a revenue on both sides of the equation.

A) The bar owner forced the bands to provide the bars customer base for the night.... from whom the bar would earn a revenue from alcohol sales.

B) The bar owner forced the customers to account for 100% of the band's performance pay... while at the same time... the bar even kept 60% of that too.

I find it simply amazing how the bands are supplying the bar's customer base.... and how that customer base is solely funding the band's performance pay... but still.... the bar owner is walking away with the most money... lol.... and from both sides lol.

Those 3 bands above shared what can be called ... "a rental fee for the stage"... of $600. Thats darn near the cost of renting a Music Hall with over 500 seating compacity.

I mean... the bands are already responsibile for selling their own tickets and supplying their own fans.... lol...

Wouldn't it be more profitable for the 3 bands to get together and rent the Music hall for sayyyyyyy $750? Instead of the bar for $600? And just split the ticket sales?

Already from the equation above we can arrive at $1000 earned from 100 ticket sales.... and... $250 remaining for the 3 bands.

Basically... what I am getting at is.... is there an alternative to how bands are being treated by some bars?

Sure hope it was a joke. Cause that's sickening.

I don't know where you found that bar, but we just haven't come across the problem here in Salem and most of Portland. Maybe just have been lucky so far.

When I started out back in 76 playin clubs regularly we made between 1000-2700$ (floor show 9-11pm)) per week (3-4 nites) LOCALLY and didnt have to sell any tickets. NOW, I beat my drum for 75 $ a nite, if Im lucky.. Its worse now for the kids. They do what you described by having 3 bands in one nite and make 100$ a band... 25$ a piece..and they HAVE to draw...We have 2 theatre's here where bands DO rent out and handle the whole thing and those do pretty good.ALOOOOTTTAAA work goes into those gigs though. I cant speak for the road yrs 78-95 , but since then, the local scene here has declined and getting worse all the time and operates much like you described.

Here's my horror story:

CLICK HERE FOR HORROR!

I'd be surprised ANY band would go for that kind of a deal.

There's no way I could shed that much dignity to get a gig. Too many other places are happy to have us, and there's plenty more places for starting bands to find a stage to play on. Sure a lot of starter gigs are playing for free, or flat rates, but that bullshit with sell you own tickets, etc... screw that

I know there's a place up here that operates on a similar style, although, you just have to sell your own tickets, none of that taking a % of the door crap. I don't play there either.

People don't "follow" bands like they used to

Is there a minimum number of tickets they have to sell?

I just wouldn't play there, & yes, I would rent a theater or the fire hall or whatever & say "FU" to the bar venue completely. That's extortion, as far as I'm concerned, & I won't be a party to it.

I can understand that the bar is responsible for security & insurance, but there's no reason to fleece the acts like this. Skaa-ROOO 'em, I say!

In my area if you are an original band this is a common practice.

One in the Jackson TN area requires the band to rent the room for $300 and charges $10 at the door. Very similiar to this post.

I consider these teenie booper clubs that have a multi bill of original bands in one night. Ussually the main band gets a cut of the door after the $300 has been paid back.

Our band will take the door at some venues we play. Ussually we have to pay the door person who is supplied by the club a set amount. We then get the balance from the door.

Most original bands arent going to get offered any set money unless they prove to be a steady draw. Ive been to some shows of other bands that do these multi band bills. Once a group plays a lot of times the bands fans leave.

The reality is that if you want to get your music out there, you have to pay some kind of dues. In my area there are enough bands willing to play for free, that competition is fierce for these types of gigs.

Once you get an established fan base then maybe you can ask for some set amount.

In other words in most markets you have to pay to play. The alternative is to just stay home.

I'm not sure I will even do another benefit for free. EVEN IF IT IS LEGIT!
I would maybe help a friend out and open for them, or even headline to help out, but other than that...
NO PAY, NO PLAY!!!

Bar & club owners have been slowly putting the squeeze on bands for a long time now; and the result is very few packed clubs with original "or" cover act's instead of plenty of em like there used to be. There used to be drink specials right up until the bands started / 3 bands for a $5-$10 cover / a packed house all weekend... Now it cost $100 to go out for the night and the bands get $ 130 - $200 to headline instead of $600 - $700. This started long ago while the economy was still strong. I'm sorry but I've had a bad taste in my mouth for club owners for a long time now. After being burned & basically ROBBED in my mind so many times... well I trust them about as much as polaticians, salesmen, and TV evangelist!

www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/
http://bandmix.com/hayden-king/
hayden_king2000 on yahoo messenger

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I'm not sure I will even do another benefit for free. EVEN IF IT IS LEGIT!
I would maybe help a friend out and open for them, or even headline to help out, but other than that...
NO PAY, NO PLAY!!!

Bar & club owners have been slowly putting the squeeze on bands for a long time now; and the result is very few packed clubs with original "or" cover act's instead of plenty of em like there used to be. There used to be drink specials right up until the bands started / 3 bands for a $5-$10 cover / a packed house all weekend... Now it cost $100 to go out for the night and the bands get $ 130 - $200 to headline instead of $600 - $700. This started long ago while the economy was still strong. I'm sorry but I've had a bad taste in my mouth for club owners for a long time now. After being burned & basically ROBBED in my mind so many times... well I trust them about as much as polaticians, salesmen, and TV evangelist!

www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/
http://bandmix.com/hayden-king/
hayden_king2000 on yahoo messenger

*

I think the problem is... bar/club owners seemed to have turned the tables on the opinion of .... "who is doing who" a favor....

.... bar/club owners like to promote that it is "they" doing the bands a favor by allowing them to perform in their venue... thus giving the bands exposure....

However... the bar owners.. for the most part... is only exposing the bands to their very own fans... as the bands most times than not... have to cough up the ticket sales just to be play there.

I recall when it used to be that... a bar owner would have its own customer base... and in the interests of looking after their customers... as well as working to create more exposure for the bar... the bar owner would hire a band to entertain these customers.

The band... back then... was doing the bar owner a favor... by accepting the gig... and entertaining the bar owner's customers.... which increased sales for the bar owner as more people came to buy their alcohol.

The increase sales in alcohol from the fact the bar was offering live entertainment... most times would account for the band's performance pay.

Now... the bar owner doesn't want to take the respsonsibility of bringing in its own customer base... and has it in their head.... well hey... we can get the bands to fill the seats for us... and ... at their expense. While at the same time... we'll even fix it so the very people they provide us.... also pays for the band.

Its a perfect plan... and all we have to do is.... open the front door and rake in the cash from the band's ticket sales... and the band's fans drinking habit.

The bar owners are probably thinking... "hell.. if we can automate this scam... we won't even have to get out of bed in the morning".

There are several places like this down here in H-town and they do the same thing what they really are, a never ending battle of the bands and the bands are very young and usually will do anything to get in front of a crowd.
I think this is very bad for the music biz it just drags everyone else down to the point to where a real musician can't make a living performing and has to take a day job to make ends meet. This is why I call be a musician a curse of sorts! I have people come up to me at gigs and say I wish I could do that and I just smile and tell them no you don't LOL.

There are 2 types of bars that I am familiar with.

There are ones with built in crowds. These types the bar owner has a duty to the customers to bring in acts that entertain the audience. You ussually get a set pay and if the audience likes you enough you have room to negotiate, not a huge increase but you should be in a position to ask for more. If you dont like the pay dont play there.

The other type doesnt have an audience and relys on us as musicains to bring people. If you can bring crowds there again you have the option of possibly charging as much at the door as possible. We all have to cut our teeth somewhere and a lot of times these are the only outlets for new bands.

I had friends who went to LA in the early 80s and a lot of the clubs on Sunset Strip charged bands exorbitant amounts to get slots for gigs. Lots of these bands were getting signed to big contracts.

Latley the economy has taken its toll on the club crowd. My band is not drawing what it should and in fact all the bands in my area are suffering. I watched the news last night and since the beginning of the year 60,000 jobs have been lost in our country. Whether you like it or not, that affects all of us in the entertainment industry. Diehard fans of my band are coming to one show every 6-8 weeks instead of 1 a month. We have a couple of local corporate clubs and they have knocked their base pay back from $400 a night to $300 a night. When people dont have money to go out they stay in and entertain themselves. I would think anyone actively working in a band is starting to feel this to some degree, I know our band has, as has all our friends in working bands. When I say working I mean anywhere from 2 gigs a month to 20. So if you have gigs that are paying these days, you should feel lucky. Weve had around 10 clubs that had live music shut down over the last few months. A couple of others I know of have cut back their entertainment schedules.

I dont know what Im ranting about, but for this threads content. If you are getting started or playing original music you may have to take a few pay to play type gigs to get going. If you are any good, and when I say any good its not about the music its about bringing in business then you should be able to position yourself to make more money.

What I would suggest in the essence of this post is to get on bills with bands that have some kind of followings and open for free, use their equipment and play your ass off til you have enough following to do your own gigs that you have some control over.

In short its tough in bar land these days and its not just what we get paid its tough on the bars themselves to keep going.

The last bar gig I attended I was in the crowd. Everyone was dancing and singing. The room was full of smoke. The band was decent. And for some reason I thought. WTF am I doing sitting here wasting my time. I sat my beer down. Stood up and walked out. I had walked about three miles out toward my house when my wife caught up with me in the truck.
Some people are just nuts.

I've heard this is common practice in some cities. Texas Mike Bell was talking to me on the phone a few years ago about moving to Kansas City. He had spent some time years before in Nashville (or Memphis I forget which) and the majority of venues operated this way. I've also heard this practiced in California (L.A.?). Even pros like Mike Bell didn't make any money so they end up having to move or worse quit playing. It's all what the economy will bear. We've talked about this before. We've got the same situation happening to a degree here, although it hasn't gotten to the point of bands having to buy tickets to play somewhere. Instead a lot of the weekday gigs (mainly blues jams) the bands play for nothing (literally). I know one of the very best harmonica players in town who hosted a blues jam for months at a new blues venue. They were bringing in a good crowd every week. One day he went to the owner and asked him to start paying the band something. He ended up quitting the jam session. It's a shame. I keep telling people you CAN'T PLAY FOR FREE. ONCE YOU PLAY FOR FREE YOU'LL ALWAYS PLAY FOR FREE. That's one of the reasons I quit the jam sessions. If the host band is getting paid I'll go to a jam session, otherwise I'm not supporting a venue owner who takes advantage of us hard working musicians. Later...

We did a few bars but mostly private parties. (Back yard keggers). One time we hired an off-duty cop to stand out front for crowd control, and to ward off other cops from busting the party for after-hours decibel-violations. (among other things) Yes, back in the day when they'd say "are you ok to drive" and we'd say "yes-sir ossifer" and he'd say "well, be careful going home".. lol.. and that was it.. damn I miss the good ole daze..