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I thank everyone for the replies - good stuff.

Today was another day of auditions and lessons to be learned. From now on here is how I intend on doing it. Let me know your thoughts or perhaps share your techniques:

Drummer audition in 4 easy steps:

I will be giving snippets of beats from the tunes.

1) Starting with simple ones, and than gradually increase the difficulty. I will play the sample, let the guy listen to it, then I will let him play along with it, than turn the sample off and let him play it on his lonesome. If he passes, next sample, harder.

2) If he passes I will play him a section of the beat with a roll. Same story, and gradually increase the difficulty.

3) If he passes the final test is to give him a complete tune to listen to ("The prophesy" for instance) and then play together. On this last one he can make mistakes, but we will have a clear idea what the rehearsal would go like.

4) If that goes well. Fun time - a jam session. There he will be playing along riffs of each or us separately. It is still a test.

Not only can he play, but also can he listen and how is he to work with.

Your thoughts?

Well, being a bass player, Alex, the best advice I can give you is to leave the choice of drummer up to your bassist. If you were seeking a bass player, I'd tell you to leave the decision to the drummer. I'm a little weird that way, maybe, but if these two guys aren't gonna mesh, you're gonna suck biggly...well, I'm sorta kidding...



Actually, the alternative might be to go the way you just described.

My rules would include such things as -

a ) If he uses the guitarist as his guide to hold the band together, he's outta here!

b ) If he uses the singer as a tempo guide, I'd remind him to stop it - once - if he persists he's outta here

c ) if he tries to overpower everyone with volume &/or over-cymbalification, he's outta here

d ) If he can't do his own fills without losing tempo he's outta here

e ) If he has to throw in a fill per measure, he's outta here

f ) If he's trying to catch on, if he's occasionally playing off what the bass (especially the bass!) or the keyboard or the voice or the guitar is doing, and he avoids a through e above, he's in serious consideration, cuz it shows that he LISTENS, & possibly even cares, & might even have abilities!

philbymon Of cause it would be better for bassist to choose drummer and vise versa, however we have a slight problem here. We are both guitarists and sometime play harmonized lead. So it is a chicken or the egg thing at the moment.

The bass line and drums are plaid by a computer sequencer at this time. So I have no other choice.

Alexander,

Initially,(as in the case of an audition) anyone can "count off" the time, but ultimately, it's the drummer's job.

Once the band (drummer included) is in "goin' out to gig mode", That responsibility should rest primarily on the drummer. If that potential drummer isn't aware of that crucial responsibility, then that individual is not the person you want layin' down TIME in your band.

Initiating good time means that the drummer must have an idea of the groove your after.(that means "knowin' the songs")

That doesn't preclude the ability to improvise, or "jam" if the situation calls upon the drummer to do so. That requires the drummer to be able to instantly bring to bear drum rudiments, the more skills the drummer has, the farther your band can progress.

It should go without saying that the drummer should be able to tune his (or her) own drums, and keep them in good working order.

The drummer should be able to set up and tear down his kit in a
reasonably expedient fashion.

For the kinds of music I play, I expect the drummer to be able to play a good solid rock beat; a tasteful side stick kinda beat for slow songs; definitely a good shuffle beat, for blues; a basic swing beat, in case ya ever wanna "jazz out". Reggae , Latin, and Afro rhythms are nice, but not necessary . Your requirements may differ.

and so on and so forth....
good luck with the audition,
Howlin'

Agree with you HowlinJ
in 1995 (god help me!) I was playing bass in a Santana Cover band here in Frisco. The drummer we had was excellent - his timing was right on, was not short on versatility. We did not have a second percussionist, as you know Santana's tunes require one. He was able to substitute quite nicely. In fact it was he who taught me drums in the first place. I am looking for the old fart all over the place. Can't find him. It has been many years ago.

In the mean time it amazes me what kind of cats I come across on craiglist.

This isn't a business for weak egos.

Yet it is filled with them!
too many just want people to adore them and will do or say anything to get that adoration. Yes we all love to be admired and appreciated; that's a natural human need. But when it comes to "posers" saying they can when they cant, or stepping all over "the song" to get more attention than the song it's self, well I just don't have time or tolerance for them!

Just ask him if he would have a problem with playing country 2-3 night a week along with the rock gigs.... he wont call.

www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/6039/
http://bandmix.com/hayden-king/
hayden_king2000 on yahoo messenger

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Just ask him if he would have a problem with playing country 2-3 night a week along with the rock gigs.... he wont call.



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LOL!

Hayden - that one could really backfire if you come across the ol' music sluts like me! I'd say "Sure! Anything to keep my chops up!"

Number one for a cold audition, I always try to get a player to agree on about 10 songs to get together ahead of time. Im not talking about complicated stuff just some different basic tunes that in my opinion a club musician should know. I try to pick some with different feels to them.

Say a couple of rockers, maybe a funk type song and then maybe a slow song.

For me its ussually painfully obvious when a player is not up to snuff. 2 yrs ago when I was getting back into music I ran into a lot of players like this who said they wanted to gig. But honestly they didnt have the goods. Ussually after a few songs of fumbling around I would basically say what else have you got, song wise. If they didnt have 30-40 songs they could play why bother on my part. Then if they wanted to jam. I would just try to blow them out of the water with chops and see how they respond. I only had one group bug me about coming back ussually it was very obvious to them that I was beyond their level. When I would leave situations like this I would ussually say when you guys have a real set list in place that you can play start to ending give me a call back. But as I said I had this one group that really wanted me, they just didnt have it together at all. I finally told the guy NO IM NOT INTERESTED AT ALL.

That being said I did run into 2 groups that were way beyond my level. One was playing weird timing sigs and heavy prog rock, the other was basically a jazz group. Oddly Im out gigging a couple of times a month and these groups arent doing anything. SOme of their member have become fans of our band and I see them at gigs. They want me to help them get some gigs. The problem is i dont know how to help people that just want to show off that they are brilliant musicains. All the hardcore prog or difficult music bands ive been in thru the years couldnt get a paying gig and when we did we just bored audiences to death other than the other musicians who showed up and just critisized our playing. We let one of these groups get up and play the other night and they did YYZ by Rush and just nailed it, I was impressed but the audience didnt even wimper just yelled Free Bird. A lot of musicians dont understand what their job is when they get out and play. It took me years to figure it out. I guess some folks are too good for the market.

I would say from an audition standpoint if the group cannot give you a solid song list that they know, why even get with them.

An example I had these call me about a blues group. I said sure what songs, and they said you know blues. So I show up, didnt even bring an amp, they supplied me with this Fender Classic 30, great blues amp by the way. Stick a tube screamer in front and you are good to go. The other guitarist had one of those modeling amps with all the delays and syrupy chorus's. Which for blues does not work in my opinion. We start playing Redhouse and the bass player is all over, the guitarist is kinda folowing me. Im playing rythym and let him play lead. Of course he kicks in some delayed out setting that is just mush. He then looks at me to play lead and I kick in my TS on the borrowed amp and just blow his ass away. So then I try to lead them thru a series of songs. We get into Hey Joe and after the solo theres that little run that the bass and guitar do in tandem, and the bass player is lost. So I just keep doing it over and over again, thinking he will at least pick it up. He never has a clue, plus hes chugging down one of those huge beers. I hang around another hr or so and just jam blues solos in whatever key they want to do. When its over I thank them and say it was fun. They say when can we get together again. I told them until they have some sort of set list there is no point. The guy that called me asks me what it will take for them to gig. I basically said about 3 yrs of hard practice. You need to be honest in your assesments of groups and players. Dont be an ass about it cause everyone starts somewhere, but for me when I meet a 40 yr old musician who is just starting I really dont think its going to happen.

You said it to perfection jw!