General Music Chat

Hello oh experienced ones,

I am picking up the guitar again after having taken a haiatus for about 15 years and decided to start re-stocking my music equipment. I pretty much sold everything except for my accoustic and electric guitar during my stint thinking I would never be interested in playing again, go figure.

I am playing the same guitar I first learned how to play on, a modified Charvel Jackson (I had a neck pickup and new tremelo system put on), and I've grown so absolutely accustomed to it, that when shopping for a new guitar, nothing else feels right. The action on every guitar hanging on the wall makes me feel like I'm playing a cello or stand-up bass.

Two questions:
1. How high of an action is "common" among other players, that is, do you measure it?

2. What's the first thing you do to your new guitar after you buy it? I'm thinkin... have them (or myself) lower the action...

Your input very much appreciated.

ST.

edit: ps., oh, or do you think it's a guitar center plot to raise the action on all guitars to keep poeple from spending hours playing instead of looking, buying and leaving!

Hey Kids,

Im sure your gonna get diff opinions and measurements on this one.Now I like my action 1/8th" off the fretboard at the 12th.I like about .015" relief in neck at the 7th. Fret size will be a factor what you can get by with without buzzin too. First thing I would do after buyin a new gtr is re string it, play it for a day, then set the action and relief, then strobe it (intonation).Yeah , it could be due to the dryness this time of yr that your seeing the high action.Wood dries out and the strings have more pull on the neck. You can lower the action your self..First, set the neck relief. You should be able to slide a business card under the G string at the 7th fret. (.010-.020")then move your saddles/ bridge up or down where ya want it. Strobe it again.Your done.

Good Stuff TheKIDD. Thank you for posting.

I would not let anyone in GC touch my guitar though. You live not far from me. Here in San Francisco on 331 Potrero Ave is SFGuitarWorks shop. Good people - good master. He does all my setup and custom work. I would recommend him unless you want to do it yourself. (you do need the proper equipment though)

To add to what John (TheKIDD) said:

Electromagnetic shielding to shield from unwanted radio waves, changed condensers. This is to lower the noise. In studio you can just spin on the chair to find position where it does not have any noise or the noise is at a minimum, but on stage it is harder and you have to stand like statue. Or should I say like Tony Iommi

String tension
I only use the same type of strings all the time and never use anything else (not anymore, not on this Strat) It is Dean Markley Custom Light (CL 9-46) Cryogenic activated. IMO best strings - unless you want to play speed metal. I am sure that there are other players and other options. There are tons of options.

IF you go from a high tension like 11/52 to lower tension like 9/46 You will have the path in the top neck fret (whatever it is called) widened by the use of the fatter string and your new thing strings will be loose in it. Thus you will be losing on tune. Conversely if the guitar ever had 9/46 and never had high tension strings the string will lay in the path just a little to high and you again have tune problems.

Lubrication
When I change the strings I use Guitar Grease to lubricate the tremolo saddles, the slots. This way when you work the tremolo the string returns to it's original position and does not "stick" sharp/flat in the path. When I do not have Guitar Grease I use a mixture of sawing machine oil and graphite from #2 pencil. Works like charm. You can use your tremolo all you want and it will pop right back in tune.




So what is YOUR guitar setup guys?

I agree take it to a pro but just remember plan on leavin it there for a couple weeks or more ,anybody good will be busy.oh and it will cost you more the guy I use works on cellos ,violins,and such.good luck

I never used actual measurements for my setups.

When I get a new guitar, first thing I do is check the neck (wont buy it w/o a straight neck!) and make any adjustments if necessary, then remove the old strings, heavily oil the fretboard, restring it, check the neck again, then start working on the action. For stop-tail bridges, it's easy as hell, just lower the saddle until I start hearing buzz, the bring it back up a slight.

For tremolo systems, I do a ponderous method of loosening or tightening the tremolo springs, combined with re-tuning the guitar, and also raising or lowering the tremolo screws until the action is perfect with the guitar tuned to standard, and also, that the tremolo is parallel to the strings/neck (not pulled back or forward, or tilting).

I also adjust the pickup heights to a preferred level (I like my high end to stick up a little more than the lows, only a little)

Then I intonate the strings and that's it. If it doesn't feel good at that point, I might try to re-adjust it, but the bottom line is that there really are a lot of guitars out there and only so many will feel great, especially when you've grown accustomed to one 'type'.

Here's an example of the few types I've run across, that affect the feel the most-

Fender, tapered necks, yet still thick in the back. Feels like a hump on teh back of the neck to me. I never could get my strat to feel great, finally sold it off.

Gibson/Epiphone, pretty good feel , medium neck

Jackson, Ibanez "RG" style, Wide necks, but slim in the back, opposite of the fender, never cared for it. Seems like the strings are too far apart with the wider neck.

Kramer My personal favorite. Tapered neck, but medium thickness and it just feels perfect. Only my Epiphone comes close, and it's still no contest.

PRS, Semi-wide necks, not a terrible feel, but I never warmed up to them, something about the tone of them just bothers me.

Ok, enough of my blathering..

Well if you're talking Charvel as in Charvel San Dimas, then you're screwed.
Everything else will feel like a brick, with the exception of some Ibanez necks.
Sorry Kramerguy, but no Kramer I've ever touched can hold a candle to the san dimas neck. Nothing can.
In fact, it was a common thing for some of the big time strat players to swap out their strat necks with charvel necks back in the day.

I say keep searching till you find something that doesnt feel too bad, then have it taken to a proper guitar shop for a good setup. (Not GC).
Action should be just high enough not to produce any fret buzz on the first 4 frets.

Or find a used San Dimas and have it set up to your liking.

Or find a used San Dimas and have it set up to your liking.

This the modified Charvel - Jackson. It's a model 2 I believe. I wanted to try out a 24 fret, but i'm not certain I need those extra 2 frets I was trying them out at GC, and that's when I realized there's a stark difference in the action in all the guitars and my own guitar. My guitar's neck just feels reallly good and smooth. I can run arpeggios and scales nicely on this neck, but even the ibanez necks I tried out there seemed flat, dry and difficult to move along the neck because the action seemed higher than I was used to.



Thanks for the input everyone.

Nice.
What kind of pickup do you have in the neck there?

Nice.
What kind of pickup do you have in the neck there?

I want to say it's a silver-bird, or eagle or some bird like that lol. Honestly, I can't remember it was so long ago. After I purchased this guitar, I built a really good relationship with a local "guitar master" i guess you would say. He worked on guitars, and He spent a lot of time with me working on it and determining the best pickup configuration and switch locations. I was pretty passive in the whole process. I still don't know much about guitars except where to put my fingers half of the time

The actions on most mass produced guitars are way from correct as they hang in the shop. The last one I purchased I had the young man in the shop (some one I know and trust by the way) restring and set the action for me. I set up my own Strats after changing to a lighter gauge strings.
I used a few simple tools, magnifier, millimeter ruller / square, appropriate screw driver and hex drivers. Utilizing factory specs for string hight at frets, and set them 1mm above minimum spec. string by string then set intonation. I am no luthier but have done some fine machine type work in the past. Was a pain but I got it done.

Nice.
What kind of pickup do you have in the neck there?

here's what it sounds like, kindof. Still getting the recording thing down.I think I'm clipping a little plus I added a little "tone", but it's all the front pickup:



http://www.ckdesigns.com/images/SampleFrontPickup.mp3

The actions on most mass produced guitars are way from correct as they hang in the shop. The last one I purchased I had the young man in the shop (some one I know and trust by the way) restring and set the action for me. I set up my own Strats after changing to a lighter gauge strings.
I used a few simple tools, magnifier, millimeter ruller / square, appropriate screw driver and hex drivers. Utilizing factory specs for string hight at frets, and set them 1mm above minimum spec. string by string then set intonation. I am no luthier but have done some fine machine type work in the past. Was a pain but I got it done.

Well
1. Good to know I'm completely crazy - I can blame GC and not me being spoiled
2. You're hired. anytime you end up in Cali, you're welcome to restring my guitar

edit: lol. Freudian slip on #1. Make that Not crazy plz.

No you are not completely crazy or spoiled at all. I had this Fender for 4 years now after I sold my Jacksons. It is a US made 50 anniversary remake of 1954 model. But it had never seen any bridge work. I was playing it as I got it in the store.

I highly recommend setting the instrument up at a master shop - unless you are a pro like TheKIDD.

Now just got my axe from the SF Guitar works. Completely redone - Holy Sweet mother of Jesus! I can not believe the way this thing sounds now. It is actually in tune all the way up and down the fretboard.



After the complete re-do on the guitar, with new electronics, setup and bridge work this thing is like a completely different instrument. I now have to - re-record all the demos and other stuff. It sounds so much different. I would have to re-learn how to play, err actually I will just have to learn how to play first.

Personally I like the action as low as humanly possible (mine's a 1960 Gibson Melody Maker) and I put on the lightest Ernie Balls they make (they're getting hard to find) , but that's just me...

Sorry Kramerguy, but no Kramer I've ever touched can hold a candle to the san dimas neck. Nothing can.
In fact, it was a common thing for some of the big time strat players to swap out their strat necks with charvel necks back in the day.

We will have to agree to disagree! It's all personal taste in the end, but I've not played a Charvel or Jackson that I really liked (that much).
I did play a friend's san dimas a few years ago, just handed it back like 'meh'...

I know...

Even he was like "WHA?!?!".. I was like "it's okay.. but certainly no kramer stagemaster or anything..." lol